anaphylactic shock help (long)

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ew1801

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my old mare suffers with laryngeal hemiplegia and her breathing has been suffering latley. in the stable she is apsolutly fine but when she gets turned out her breathing gets progessivly worse during the day. she will come in at night heaving quite heavily and it takes her around 30 mins for her breathing to settle then shes fine.
I got the vet out to see if there was anything that could be done to help her. the vet said that she had slight inflammation in her throat so he injected her in her neck with steroids and then injected her in her vein in the neck with ventipulmin. Within two mins of the vet leaving she was heaving terribly and sweating. I phoned the vet back who came straight back and gave her a another injection to counteract the ventilpulmin. For the next hour she struggled to breath and the amount of sweat that came from her was apsolutly unreal. all her bedding was wet through and there were pools of sweat on the floor. she stopped sweating after an hour but took nearly 8 hours for her breathing to settle.

But now her breathing is worse than ever. the only time her breathing is settled is when shes stood completley still. she cant even eat her haynet without starting to heave. her respiratory at rest (stood in the stable eating a haynet is 26 breaths a min) and she sometimes gets a bit sweaty as shes struggling that much. same vet and another one (same practice) has been out and said shes fine and the injection wont have caused any damage and i must just try and manage her breathing.


her lungs are clear and it is all down to her larynx. could the injection have made it worse??

But my point is that she wasnt this bad before the reaction. she would just have a few hours out grazing being out of breath but now its even when she stood eating her net.

shes on ventilate, and soaked hay and shes bedded on shavings

has anyone ever heard of permament damage happening from such a reaction and could the vets be wrong??

ive spoke to vet regarding quality of life etc and hes said that she looks fine (which she does) she doesnt get overly stressed about the heaving and looks damn good for a 21 year old thats had a tough life. hes said that her breathing is probably bothering me more than it is her. hes said we will have a rethink about quality of life when shes dropping weight and starting to look miserable. but i just dont understand how she could be this bad and it be nothing to do with the injection. (this happened last saturday night so it has been nearly a week for her breathing to recover from injection). im really worried but i feel like people just think im being one of these overprotective worrying mothers lol
 
I cant see how she couldn't be distressed if it took a week to get her breathing back to some kind of normality.
Sorry to say this, but I would have had her PTS. If medication is not going to be able to help her when she is struggling, then I would say its time to call it a day.
 
yes i have discussed this with the vet but again he states shes fine and she is herself in every other way. im not asking about weather you think i should put her to sleep or not im asking weather anyone has had any similar experiences etc

i will indeed make the decision to put to sleep if think she will be suffering long term but it as only been a week since the attack and i owe it to her to try my best so please leave the out the pts comments
 
Read your original post.....she heaves badly until bought in from the field. At present (since the jab) she cannot eat a haynet without setting herself off.
The only time she is "peaceful" is when totally still.
If she wasn't your horse, what would you recommend? Would you think that was a natural state for a horse to exist in? I say exist, because it sure isn't living!
Hardest thing ever you can do, but it certainly sounds like the right one for your girl.
 
yes i know how bad she is at the moment but i have to give her chance to see if she will settle back to how she was before (a week is not giving her chance to). if she doesnt improve in the coming weeks i will talk to my vet again but in the mean time can people keep to my original question which was has anyone ever been in a similar situation? has anyone ever known a horse be permanently damaged from such reaction?? and does anyone think the vets could be wrong??
 
I know of a pony that had this sort of reaction following an injection, actually ended up on the floor dying because he couldn't breathe, vet came back out and did a tracheotomy. Apart from the nightmare of keeping the wound clean the pony recovered and went back into work a couple of months later. Dare I suggest you consider getting another vet out (possibly from an equine specialist vet if you have one nearby) for a second opinion on what they can do for her to make her breathing easier. Bless her, I hope her breathing settles quickly and she can eat normally again.
 
I'm not going to advise- I'm not a vet or highly knowledgable in these things.
I do however have first hand experience of owning a pony with major breathing difficulties. Ours too seemed worse outside and were mainly to do with a valve in her larynx rather than her lungs as such, but the ongoing problems damaged her lungs.
We also tried similar treatments to you.
I just wanted to send my love, its such a horrible thing to be going through and my thoughts are with you at this time.

I would also like to point out as someone who spent a week in hospital last week for major breathing problems of my own, its the most terrifying thing not being able to breathe easily- its one of the things we take for granted, breathing happens without thinking and when that's taken away the fear and panic is unbelievable.

(((((hugs to you and your mare))))) xx
 
Her heart would be my main concern. She is heaving when simply eating hay. That says she is not getting enough oxygen around her body. Therefore her heart is pumping possibly twice as hard in what sounds like a futile attempt to get that badly needed oxygen to the parts that need it. The body will prioritise where the oxygen is going, the most important organs getting first dibs.....
If she were mine, she would have been taken as an inpatient. What she has is an ongoing condition that sounds as though there could be other things going on, or possibly the original condition is simply worsening. Either way I stand by my first post......I dont honestly think she has a quality of life as she is, she is elderly so age is against her as things are slowly starting to pack up, and for her to struggle with being able to simply eat without distress and discomfort is unacceptable
 
thank you mcnally it is apsolutly heartbreaking as i love my mare dearly and will give her every chance in the world to come right but will do the right thing by her if i have to

joanne please dont comment on this thread again you are not helping i know she suffering at the moment but ive got to give her time to come right and like i said before if she doesnt in the next few weeks i will do the right thing by her
 
My only experience of anythign remotely similar was my old horse Sunny. He needed ventipulmin during the winter, cos thats when (so iam told) the air is thinner and it increases the horses difficulty to breathe. Sunny didn't react to anything given, so iam not in your situation. But, if what I was told is true, be aware that your mare may suffer more now going into winter than over the summer we have just had. Iam sure you will make the right decsion what ever happens.
I, too would get a second opinion also.
 
I did as much research as i could and although i know your now thinking " oh for gods sake thats no good" similar to what i thought everytime someone said why dont you try this herbal stuff! --- um.... because proper scientific proven meds are not working!

But i did come across a few things which helped slightly- they obviously wont fix her but might help??

Beconase- human stuff from supermarkets
Arsenicum Album, Homeopathic but if you believe in it??
Carl Hester Vapour rub, rubbed into her gullet area regularly- I also used eucalyptus oil mixed with a bit of baby oil.
If you can get such thing as a baby face mask for asthma, a Ventolin reliever inhaler (again for people) can help given at a rate of 8-10 pumps a day for 7 days.
(pm me if you cant but would like to get one!)
xx
 
I had a situation once a long time ago where my horse had a severe allergic reaction to an injection from the vet, horse dropped to the ground and was convulsing - horse survived but my vet was very 'funny' with me afterwards. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I would get a second opinion from a different vet - one who can give an objective opinion. I really hope your mare starts to improve, it's a horrible situation for you and her
 
ok thanks mcnally will have a look but dont know if they would help as her breathing problems (so ive been told by the vet) are due to her larynx being paralysed so is restricting the amount of air she is getting but she wasnt this bad before the vet injected her so will have a try at the things you suggested as im pretty sure something else is going off even if the vets arent admitting to it.
think im going to get a second opinion from a different vet
 
mle22- this is what im worried about to be honest i personally think the vets cocked up somewhere and they are trying to cover their backsides. my mare is alot worse now than she was before the attack but they just keep fobbing me off saying shes fine its her larynx theres nothing we can do you must just manage it.
im really confused as dont no what to believe or do
 
Even if the vet didn't actually do anything wrong at the time I think they get worried anyway and try to play it down as much as possible. A vet who is coming in fresh to it could look more objectively at what your mare needs now. Good luck x
 
Following on from Mcnallys post, may be worth trying an homeopathic vet, remedies are not horrendously expensive, or you could even try crossgates farm and see if they could make up a remedy for her.
 
yes think that is the best way to go. just wish if i am right they would just own up to it as im not bothered if they cocked up they are humans at the end of the day my main concern if my horse. if the could just say right ive done this but shouldnt have and this has happened so we now need to do this which will help. rather than just playing it down and my mare suffering.
makes me mad and i feel guilty for actually getting the vt out in the first place
 
Hi

I've sought a 2nd opinion from another vet practice before.

I think that if a vet has treated your horse for years and years, through thick and thin. Knows you adore it and don't want to lose it, I'm sure human nature means they try to reassure you the whole time that everything will be OK... even if it's looking bleak.

Just a fresh set of eyes looking at things without any prior knowledge perhaps helps.

It's courtesy for the 'new' vet to let the existing vet know that they have been called in. Well that was certainly what happened in my situation.
 
I would get a second opinion from a completely independent vet- even though on one hand if they have damaged your horse its too late but on the other hand sometimes as with Doctors its a case of luck and speaking to the right person who has maybe seen something similar before. I am also going to PM you the email address of a very very good highly respected vet who helped me in the past- he's completely approachable and very kind- if you explain everything he may be able to offer some advice.
 
Re examining what happened - you horse may well have suffered from anaphylactic shock at the time of this injection (it happens, can't be predicted and nobody can be blamed) but this type of reaction clears quickly. I don't think it is what your horse is suffering from now. It is much more likely, in my view, that the reaction has weakened the heart leading to the present breathlessness.

In your shoes I would seek a second opinion - you need answers and a cure if there is one, this shouldn't be about looking for somebody to blame.
 
I would be seeking a second opinion, from another practice.

The things I would want answered are:

Could the injection have caused anaphylactic shock?
What impact, long term or otherwise, could it have had on the horse's system?
Is there anyway forward for this horse?

Apart from this week's episode, is there any pattern to her breathing problems? I'm wondering if she has allergies which are exacberating the larynx?

Have a hug hun. It's an awful position to be in.
 
I would agree with the watcher on this one.. I think the reaction has made her weaker. If she was mine I would be getting another vet out for a second opinion and see what's said.

I know you don't want PTS being mentioned but I do think you need to prepare yourself as it does sound like she is suffering.
 
im not looking for anyone to blame but my mare is worse than before so would just like the vets to say right she is worse now so we must do this to help rather than playing it down and saying shes fine.

the shock was caused by the injection but it has now passed but has left her worse
 
If the injection has made her worse, you need to find out what has been damaged. If she has laryngeal hemiplegia, I wouldn't expect her to struggle so much at rest so is there another condition running alongside this - COPD or some such disorder?

I am afraid I agree that the distress caused by inability to get enough oxygen to the body's muscles is not merely a physiological issue - panic and distress is surely involved and the scenario you describe really isn't a case of simple discomfort. I don't think I could watch it and not be having the vet round to sit it out with me or do something constructive!

What would I do? I'd be getting a second opinion TODAY and if her condition would stand it, endoscopy. From what you describe, moving her is not an option and although I'm an expert at clutching at straws and am terribly sentimental, to have watched that level of distress once and a lower level daily, well, I'd be wondering if I was being fair to my horse.

If your reporting is factually accurate, it sounds like your vet is trying to prolong the mare's life by treating her. Inhumane.
 
first of all big hugs to you at a very difficult time.

so sorry to hear about your mare, i have had a similar experience with my elderly pony 11 years ago. He was kicked in the windpipe in the field and suffered a small hole to his windpipe which the vet said was inoperable but he wasnt distressed and to give him some time to heal. He also suffered from COPD and the trauma to his windpipe caused an inflammatory response and his larynx was partially paralasyed. We treated him with ventipulmin imtermittently but very tragically the hole got worse and he aspirated on his feed one evening and unfortunaltely we lost the fight.

I cant speak for anaphylactic shock in horses but in people when you experience anaphylactic shock it is a very damaging life threatening event which left untreated leads to cardiac arrest. Your bodies blood pressure rises incredibly fast and an inflammatory response occurs throughout your body in response to the trigger. I suspect the vet gave your horse adrenaline to counter act the anaphylaxsis and this may be why she is still not herself. In the simplest explaination adrenaline speeds up the heart rate and shocks the system back to self regulation (not the exact medic analysis but a brief explanation) this can cause trauma to heart tissue and possibly in your mares case an irregular heart rate which in turn makes breathing difficult. All this is just guess work and surmising i would definately think a second opinion would help in your situation.

Vibes for you and your mare take care. :)
 
if the biggest problem is her larynx why don't you have her 'tubed?' The tube would by pass the obstruction (larynx) and allow her to breathe 'normally' again.
 
Maybe a daft question but have you had your horse scoped? Mine had a very similar problem, He struggled to breath and his breathing was very noisy. He was on ventipulmin and antibiotics. After 2 weeks he got worse so was scoped, he had a small lump on his larynx. They said it was a bacterial infection, took a sample of mucus and put him on Baytril for 10 days. Monday he was no better so he went to hospital to have the lump removed. It was done by laser and had grown to the size of the vets thumb. It was on his larynx and going down his windpipe. He had the lump removed on Tuesday, by Wednesday he was back to normal. His lungs were always clear it just started as a cough when first being ridden. The vet seems to think it was caused by a foreign body stuck in his larynx.
 
a very kind member has given me contact details of a very good vet who i emailed this morning about my mares conditions and symptoms. He promptly replied and diagnosed a condition with the symptoms that my mare is suffering with. I was so relieved when he confirmed that there is a problem that is linked with her larynx that has been overlooked by my vet. There isnt a lot that can be done but there is one more thing that could help her. I have spoken to my vet who has agreed with what the other vet has said so she is now on a trial period to see if she responds to treatment. I am so relieved that someone has listened to me and that i didnt give up on my mare straight away. This is the final thing i will try but am hoping with all my heart that she responds and i get my mare back to her usual self, and the prognosis is good. Thank you to everyone who has tried to help and will keep you all updated
 
How is your horse reponding to her new treatment. I'm sure I'm not alone in being curious as to what the diagnosis and treatment are. It's always frustrating when someone askes for advice, but doesn't give a follow-up, so please keep us informed!!
 
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