Anarchy--disgusted

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Perfect11s
I am in doubt as to who is responsible for both the country and individual citizens being in debt. As a senior citizen I grew up thinking if you could not afford you did not have.
Young people have been encouraged to spend spend and pay later, a totally false economy.

I do feel we have the right to peaceful protest however and think these troublemakers should be ''sat on from a great height''
 
Cuffey said:
Perfect11s
I am in doubt as to who is responsible for both the country and individual citizens being in debt. As a senior citizen I grew up thinking if you could not afford you did not have.
Young people have been encouraged to spend spend and pay later, a totally false economy.

I do feel we have the right to peaceful protest however and think these troublemakers should be ''sat on from a great height''
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Yes totaly agree as long as you class gordon brown and most of the last goverment as young people .....
 
How that 'sap', Milliband, can stand up give his support and have those idiots swallow it all, clapping and cheering him is beyond me! It's scary that that these people will have a vote in the next election!!!
People have such short memories of how his party spent, spent and spent some more, getting us in this position in the first place! It is blindness in the extreme by those apparently brainwashed by the unions and labour party that 'red good, any other colour bad' to the extent that they are no longer capable of rational thought.
Whoever won the last election needed to cut spending to avoid the markets losing faith in the UK (see Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc for the affect of this), so it is total hypocrisy on the part of the labour leader.
 
VoR said:
How that 'sap', Milliband, can stand up give his support and have those idiots swallow it all, clapping and cheering him is beyond me! It's scary that that these people will have a vote in the next election!!!
People have such short memories of how his party spent, spent and spent some more, getting us in this position in the first place! It is blindness in the extreme by those apparently brainwashed by the unions and labour party that 'red good, any other colour bad' to the extent that they are no longer capable of rational thought.
Whoever won the last election needed to cut spending to avoid the markets losing faith in the UK (see Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc for the affect of this), so it is total hypocrisy on the part of the labour leader.
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EXCUSE ME but some of those “Idiots” you have referred to are my friends and colleagues!!!

Please do not tar everyone with the same brush that is such a bigoted viewpoint to assume to label everyone choosing to take part as an idiot!

Everyone who marched knows that cuts have to come but the depth of those cuts and the public services that will disappear as a result are actually very frightening, especially to those who do not have enough money to buy their own!!!. So those less fortunate in society that will feel the cuts to their vital services most, it is not just incidental services as you might call them that will be cut, many respite centres, day centres and care facilities will be seriously affected and to those with family members that need those services this is depressing news.

Though there is the odd sacrifice of a senior member of staff here and there in public bodies, the brunt of the job losses will be the lower paid, part time and a huge number of female workers that will suffer most.

How would you feel if the means of supporting your family and keeping the roof over your head on a minimal wage was about to be taken from you on a vague promise that the private sector will suddenly recover and employ you and need the skills that you used in your old role???

Even worse that facing redundancy from your low paid job and facing repossession you see the fat cat Bankers that have never had to save for anything in their lives, who were the ones that really made the cuts necessary, get huge bonuses that you could only hope of winning if you had enough money to by a £1 ticket. If it was truly performance related pay, then they should have their pay cut and no bonus!!

These cuts go much further and faster than is necessary and if it was left too late many essential services would disappear at least “these people” have the foresight to see this and the passion to do something peaceful to bring everyone’s attention to this! It’s a good job they do have a vote as it would be a huge disadvantage to have any of the current lot in power for too long and I hate to think what the “blues” would have done if not moderated a bit.

The reality behind these cuts, are actually real people a lot of whom are less fortunate than us horse owners, with enough to spare to enjoy our hobby are looking at real poverty. In actual fact many of those facing loosing their job and incidentally the full benefits of their pension are horse owners!! So I think most of those on the peaceful march involving them and their families would find you post as offensive as I do!
 
Karen, I don't think anyone is objecting to a peaceful march or the reason for it, but the louts who took it over and displayed, yet again, their rejection of authority and the respect of other's property. If it had been peaceful, there wouldn't have been a problem with the march at all.
It surely is a time for them to get out the water cannons and rubber bullets for those lwho are intent on causing trouble, the gloves should come off and they should be tackled, preferably by those that know how to handle themselves.
 
If I am honest I think it can only get worse. As people are more affected by the cuts, increasing food prices, and all types of fuel of course, they will become more desperate. We are rapidly heading backwards in the way we can afford to live but not in the attitude of cutting our cloth! There appears to be a complete lack of respect for any sort of moral behaviour across at least 2 generations and possibly more. There will always be those who turn to violence and those who never will, it is the ones in the middle who are the worry, and the majority, will they be drawn in as the financial situation gets worse and fall on the side of the anarchists or will their morals stop them behaving like this!

Scary times ahead I think!
 
KarynK said:
EXCUSE ME but some of those “Idiots” you have referred to are my friends and colleagues!!!

Please do not tar everyone with the same brush that is such a bigoted viewpoint to assume to label everyone choosing to take part as an idiot!

Everyone who marched knows that cuts have to come but the depth of those cuts and the public services that will disappear as a result are actually very frightening, especially to those who do not have enough money to buy their own!!!. So those less fortunate in society that will feel the cuts to their vital services most, it is not just incidental services as you might call them that will be cut, many respite centres, day centres and care facilities will be seriously affected and to those with family members that need those services this is depressing news.

Though there is the odd sacrifice of a senior member of staff here and there in public bodies, the brunt of the job losses will be the lower paid, part time and a huge number of female workers that will suffer most.

How would you feel if the means of supporting your family and keeping the roof over your head on a minimal wage was about to be taken from you on a vague promise that the private sector will suddenly recover and employ you and need the skills that you used in your old role???

Even worse that facing redundancy from your low paid job and facing repossession you see the fat cat Bankers that have never had to save for anything in their lives, who were the ones that really made the cuts necessary, get huge bonuses that you could only hope of winning if you had enough money to by a £1 ticket. If it was truly performance related pay, then they should have their pay cut and no bonus!!

These cuts go much further and faster than is necessary and if it was left too late many essential services would disappear at least “these people” have the foresight to see this and the passion to do something peaceful to bring everyone’s attention to this! It’s a good job they do have a vote as it would be a huge disadvantage to have any of the current lot in power for too long and I hate to think what the “blues” would have done if not moderated a bit.

The reality behind these cuts, are actually real people a lot of whom are less fortunate than us horse owners, with enough to spare to enjoy our hobby are looking at real poverty. In actual fact many of those facing loosing their job and incidentally the full benefits of their pension are horse owners!! So I think most of those on the peaceful march involving them and their families would find you post as offensive as I do!
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Um I hope you can refect on the situation and undestand these cuts only take us back to the level of 2007 spending,please get a sense of proportion, millibland and ed balls are playing games and using these people, working them up to make political capital to cover up and divert attention away from themselves and to gain favour with the more millitant unions.. its there're fault and there fault alone we are in the mess we are .. labour created thousands of useless jobs in the public sector using borrowed money!!! and worse constction projects that will cost billions to pay back due to the reckless PFI deals that mean we will be paying private companys back millions over the odds for hospitals etc for many years ... the cuts are smaller than they could of been if labour had been in power much longer we would be in the same state as Ireland or grease.. not pleased with cameron on a lot of things but how he and osborn are running the economy isnt one of them....
 
Maesfen said:
Karen, I don't think anyone is objecting to a peaceful march or the reason for it, but the louts who took it over and displayed, yet again, their rejection of authority and the respect of other's property. If it had been peaceful, there wouldn't have been a problem with the march at all.
It surely is a time for them to get out the water cannons and rubber bullets for those lwho are intent on causing trouble, the gloves should come off and they should be tackled, preferably by those that know how to handle themselves.
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What I objected to was the way that all those who gathered in Hyde Park were condemned as Idiots in the above post!!!

I couldn't agree more those that went on to display a lack of respect for everyone else peacefully marching for their livelihoods are a disgusting bunch of individuals that desrve at least a good drenching with cold water before being contained for several hours in the open!!!

But that is the problem now that they can no longer organise fights at football this is a soft option for them to get their violence fix, some of them had the gall to complain about finding themselves contained in Trafalgar Square!! I seriously doubt that they were even part of any of the movement that organised the successful and peaceful event.

I would expect any of the Union's involved to expel any member found to be involved in those activities, but I seriously doubt that any self respecting member or indeed other members of the public coming along to show their support against the drastic cuts, were anything to do with it.

It also goads me that people with other axes to grind cannot organise their own march and have to tag along and try and outdo the original purpose, (anti war and taxation in particular). I do hope that despite cuts those involved are ALL brought to court. Yet still this morning the police had to defend the way they dealt with the yobs in the press!
 
I am very sorry that you feel that the job I and many other workers in the public sector do is worthless, perhaps when the full extent of the cuts become a reality perfect 11's you can reflect on your generalisations.
 
Im sorry but many of the posters on this thread clearly do not understand what "anarchy" means or the reasons behind why these particular protesters did what they did.
These people involved are NOT out to get a violent fix as someone has mentioned. They are not football thugs and anarchists DO have morals. They are intelligent, passionate individuals fighting for their beliefs and ideologies.
The press they get is completely bias and the way they are treated as a group is unjust.
 
akashapachamama said:
The press they get is completely bias.
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i dont think that this dispicable behaviour should get any press whatever. they should have kept the attention on the main march and on the real reason behind the march.

people who are intent on causing criminal damage should be held responisible for their actions and should be dealt with in the same contempt and disrespect they show other peoples property.
 
akashapachamama said:
Im sorry but many of the posters on this thread clearly do not understand what "anarchy" means or the reasons behind why these particular protesters did what they did.
These people involved are NOT out to get a violent fix as someone has mentioned. They are not football thugs and anarchists DO have morals. They are intelligent, passionate individuals fighting for their beliefs and ideologies.
The press they get is completely bias and the way they are treated as a group is unjust.
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So it isacceptable to kick in shop windows,spread graffiti every where andcreate mayhem, they are thugs pure and simple with no morals whatsoever- disgusted.
 
KarynK said:
I am very sorry that you feel that the job I and many other workers in the public sector do is worthless, perhaps when the full extent of the cuts become a reality perfect 11's you can reflect on your generalisations.
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I never said all jobs in the public sector were worthless far from it, just that there have been some worthless jobs and a hell of a lot of red tape that stifles the enterprises we need to pay for the services we need, remember the public sector does not make money so if we are to ballance the books we need more productive industry. The more wealth created the more services we can afford , and sorry if the cuts mean less alcohlics, druggies, bad back fakers claiming DLA , less ferral kids being produced and crappy PC right on quangos then
bring on more cuts......
 
I've never met an 'anarchist' that didn't get a cheque from mummy and daddy to tide them over every month.
When you haven't had everything handed to you on a plate, you do feel less of a need to smash things up that don't belong to you, that you haven't worked for.

And the knobs smashing up HSBC, where do they keep their cash, under the mattress? Not in a nasty horrible bank, surely.
 
akashapachamama said:
Im sorry but many of the posters on this thread clearly do not understand what "anarchy" means or the reasons behind why these particular protesters did what they did.
These people involved are NOT out to get a violent fix as someone has mentioned. They are not football thugs and anarchists DO have morals. They are intelligent, passionate individuals fighting for their beliefs and ideologies.
The press they get is completely bias and the way they are treated as a group is unjust.
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Um... I think most people know exactly what it means ...a person who advocates
the abolition of goverment ;person who causes disorder........ hope they get the full force of the law the horrible little twunts bet few of them have contrbuted anything usefull to socity or ever will...most are spoilt little brats...
 
I am sorry but if that kind of behaviour is not any form of protest, in Egypt following years of oppression and faced with an excessive crackdown by authority those protesters kept their dignity and composure. How on earth can anyone support what happened in London from those living in a society that allows them their views. They are mindless thugs out to do damage.

In answer to those that have tried to blame these cuts on everyone but the bankers, I suppose then that the other countries mentioned had also spent too much on public services and that the problems the world now has is down to mass introductions of excessive public services in all those countries affected?

It could not have anything at all to do with bailing out banks with public funds who's senior executives would not listen to their subordinates warnings that the pyramid selling of loans to the sub prime market was about to implode, but hey who cares when you will still get millions in bonuses and shares no matter how you perform, and if the crap really hits the fan you can gracefully retire with your full pension and enough shares to buy a small island in the Caribbean. But not only do we bail the B'stards out but then they start to recall all their loans from small business and despite the great British public owning sizeable portions of shares in most of the banks, they suddenly hit the other extreme and refuse to take any risk at all.

I personally don't like any of the parties on offer no matter what their persuasion they seem to attract individuals easily corrupted by power and no doubt the current lot will have at some point to stop blaming their predecessors and start facing their own errors and bad judgement. It happens all too often, then if they get a second term in office they get to thinking they are above reproach no matter what party. Yes no doubt there was blame on politicians as well as the market economy with little restraint but one goes with the other.

All of us in Public Service are not blind to the fact that the belt has to be tightened but what is happening is that it is being used as an excuse for excessive cuts in a hideously short time period, a knee jerk reaction leading to errors and potential mismanagement and in some cases putting staff at potential risk. The buzz words are not excellent service any more but risk management, if we cut this service are the risks of ceasing that service acceptable and you would not believe in some cases how acceptable serious risks are.

However what I do not see is a serious trimming down of the parliamentary processes or a review of MP's pay conditions and numbers.. They did finally after much grumbling forgo their recommended pay rise of 1% though nice of them to leap to that decision in support of all of us faced with the loss of our jobs! "One Conservative backbencher said that it “beggared belief” that the Government was seeking to block a recommendation by the independent body that sets MPs’ pay to increase salaries by one per cent next year." After all £65k is not enough to live on is it?
 
Cuts = Job losses. Job losses= unemployment benefit. So, we are going to pay people to do nothing instead of something usefull. These people won't be able to spend much, so less products and services bought = more job losses, and so it goes on. What a good idea! I don't know why the previous government didn't think of it!
 
perfect11s said:
remember the public sector does not make money
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While this is currently true, the reasons behind this are that if budgets are not spent within the financial year they are cut the following year. There are however many sectors of public services which would be willing and able to make a profit if the money was allowed to be reinvested in those services, or even if profit did not equate to the next years budget being lowered.



perfect11s said:
and sorry if the cuts mean less alcohlics, druggies, bad back fakers claiming DLA
bring on more cuts......
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Errr.... I claimed DLA ... while I was undergoing treatment for cancer. How clever the government is to mislead a large section of the public that claimants of DLA are all scroungers.
Perhaps if you spoke to more people who had claimed this benefit you would realise that the majority of people who do claim are genuine, and those who claim falsely mainly do so out of poverty and desperate need to increase their income.
There really are people out there, in the UK, who are hungry and cold through poverty, often despite working.

Scary to think that there are people out there living on less per week than some of us spend on our horses each week.

Perhaps you could try a small experiment. Pay your accommodation costs and council tax, then try to live on £60.00 per week for two weeks. (For food, heat, water rates, travel etc..) Maybe this would open your eyes to how poverty really feels.
Would be interested to see how you get along.
 
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moosea said:
Errr.... I claimed DLA ... while I was undergoing treatment for cancer. How clever the government is to mislead a large section of the public that claimants of DLA are all scroungers.
Perhaps if you spoke to more people who had claimed this benefit you would realise that the majority of people who do claim are genuine, and those who claim falsely mainly do so out of poverty and desperate need to increase their income.
There really are people out there, in the UK, who are hungry and cold through poverty, often despite working.

Scary to think that there are people out there living on less per week than some of us spend on our horses each week.
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There are also people out there who have never worked a day in their lives, and have absolutely no intention of doing so, having more and more children on their benefits and have a lot more disposable cash every month than we do. I could immediately name 5, all in mid 20's, numerous children, all claiming DLA for such as depression, alcoholism, drug addiction and all who have never paid a penny in tax. OH and I work full time and have never claimed a penny in benefits in the 30+ years since leaving school and, because we want to keep our horses, we struggle with our food and household bills. I agree that there are genuine cases out there and they should be supported but those that can should be made to go out to work and earn a living! Things cannot go on the way they are, people with a work ethic having to work longer and longer before retirement to help support those who are unwilling to work!

And, even worse, now that I have started thinking of it I can name a hell of lot more than 5, I am going to wind myself up about it all night and not be able to sleep!
 
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Firstly, let me clarify that I have worked, and paid tax, since leaving school.

Then perhaps you could indicate to me where all these 'scroungers' are supposed to work when there are massive cuts to public services, and recession in the private sector?
 
moosea said:
Firstly, let me clarify that I have worked, and paid tax, since leaving school.

Then perhaps you could indicate to me where all these 'scroungers' are supposed to work when there are massive cuts to public services, and recession in the private sector?
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Few people and not even me who is proudly right wing would want to deny genuine clamants help, I would hate to live in a socity that doesent or carnt look after the weak sick or old , hopefully and by positive things bussiness leaders have said britain is once again a place to do bussiness so real jobs will be created and taxes paid !!!and we will slowly see living standards rise , uninployment fall and the books balance...
 
You need to look at India and states in Africato see true poverty, theres no poverty in this rat hole of a country,the scroungers dont want work, the dole keeps them going- Labour is the instigator of this stinking mess.
 
rosiefronfelen said:
You need to look at India and states in Africato see true poverty, theres no poverty in this rat hole of a country,the scroungers dont want work, the dole keeps them going- Labour is the instigator of this stinking mess.
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" There are none so blind..... "etc. etc.
 
Poverty? What about the old people who die from illnesses they get when they can't afford to put their heating on on a measley pension? Oh I suppose it's their own fault for not saving more? and 200 pounds towards heating bills goes such a long way?

I have a friend who is a fully qualified admin assistant, she was unable to get a job as because of cuts etc everyone employed office juniors instead. She now works in a shop on minimum wage.

I have another friend who has worked at a bakers since leaving school, recently did an access to learning course while still working, she now has a baby and wanted to go to uni but because of cuts she now has to find her own cash to pay for childcare, so she can no longer afford to study.

I agree the benefits system is wrong, the poorest man working should be better off than the highest paid man on benefits. However when there are no jobs what are these people to do? Yes I appreciate some people abuse the system but that is because the system is open to abuse. Yet, there still needs to a be a system to support those who do truly need it.

Why are there no jobs? (here i'll open a can of worms) because immigration has allowed too many people into our country from all over europe and parts of asia, who will work for less. Ok so many are paid illegally and less than the minimum wage, but some have proper jobs which could have been open to british folk. Plus there are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants here...... which it costs us a fortune to force them back home and they can appeal and appeal and it costs this country every time. Plus all these wars, iraq, afghanistan etc etc, to some extent i understand why what was done was done, but we couldn't afford it, and other countries stayed out. We're Americas puppet in a lot of respects.

I don't care who is in power, these cuts would have happened. I do however think its a joke how labour are making the tories out to be the bad guys, when after all, the slagged Thatcher off for removing free milk and poll tax, but did labour get rid of it when they came back into power....no they just rebranded it to something else. All politicians are liars and cheats, who would vote for someone who told the truth when it isn't something the masses want to hear? If only, least we truly would know where we stand. In the meantime, We mere mortals just have to find a way to cope.

Those who protest peacefully I have no problem with, but those who cause disruption by fighting and smashing things up look like imbeciles, and that certainly wont achieve anything, except perhaps cost the country more money taking some to court, prison etc etc.

The media stir things up too, they can report in certain ways which lends backing to one or another party, the papers are worse than the news, they use certain words and phrases and examples to stir up emotion, and facts aside, most people will run with their emotions. It's a misleading and false report in many cases. They also like to report statistics, which can so often be very misleading, huge numbers can make people believe one thing, yet when it's worked out in a different way, such as a percentage, it can actually say totally the opposite or show a very small difference. If anyone wants examples I'll fish some out later. No, I don't read papers or watch the news.
 
rosiefronfelen said:
Reality is the word-
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Erm, sorry? The word for what?

Whilst I accept that there is grinding poverty in India and parts of Africa to say that there is no poverty in the UK is, glaringly, a false statement and shows a complete lack of any sense of reality.

Granted, it is a relative poverty but there are homeless people and a very real shortage of affordable housing. There are families living on very low incomes - as someone else pointed out living on less than some people spend on their horses or other people spend on shoes. Granted, also, some people abuse the system but many, many do not.

Going off on an anti-Labour Party rant doesn't alter basic economic facts and is also somewhat simplistic. Oh, yes let's put all scroungers, poor people and the sick......er, somewhere. An institution where they are housed and fed but not too much and they could be made to work, doing something manual - breaking rocks or something else really hard. And we could call it...I don't know, a workhouse, maybe.

Would that satisfy all you people who foam at the mouth at the thought of people getting state benefits?
 
My friend works for local government. She was on the phone moaning,they hadnt had a pay rise. turns out that for the last [many] years they have had a rise to keep pace with inflation AND a pay rise. this time they had only had the inflation rise. She also pays into a pension scheme which the employer matches,so her contributions are half. She works in admin and gets pais £16,000 a year. not a lot, but, in the real world similar jobs are £12,000 to £13,000 ,no annual rise and no pension. all she does is moan moan moan. my husband is a lorry driver,theres no pension,no inflationary increase and hes not had a pay rise for 5 years so in effect hes earning somewhat less than 5 years ago, and as we all know petrol and food prices are up.I'm sick of her moaning and also sick of my council tax going to pay her over inflated salary . Get real, the money isnt there,there are too many governmeny employees screwing he rest of us,a lot of them in non-jobs anyway. Get rid of them.
 
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