And to think we worry about Whips!

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Elf On A Shelf

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Over the last goodness knows how many months the debate about whips and racing has raged on and on. Well I have just flicked up the Racing Post and there is something slightly more concerning than how many times you strike a horse in the final furlong.

Franny Norton has been suspended from riding for 40 days (the next 40 days on which Flat Racing occurs) Due to failing a Alcohol Breath Test back in May.

Jack Mitchel has been banned from riding for 6 months due a failed Urine Test, again back in May, due to there being Cocaine in his system.

Alcohol and Drugs are unfortunately very common in racing and you would think that Jockey's would know better because their careers really are on the line.

What I want to know is why this has only just come to light NOW at the END of the Flat season when things are quietening down when the failed tests took place in May. That's 4 months these Jockey's have been allowed to carry on race riding for - and who knows how much drink or drugs have continuously been in their systems since May?

The horses routinely get drug tested at the races - all winning outsiders, well placed outsiders, beaten favourites or just the winner for something to test. Why can't they routinely test the jockeys? Breath and Urine tests for jockey's is random - you never know where the testers will turn up next. Why not, say, have a monthly urine test and breath tests on the day of racing of meetings that are more than 1 day long when the jockeys stay over and go out on the town. To me that would make more sense.

Why are the jockey's only just getting their bans? Ok with a Urine test if one tests positive the B sample will then be tested but that is only a case of 2-3 weeks in entirety. The horses get tested, you know the results after just over a week, if positive then the B sample is tested and again you know the result a little over a week later. If both show positive the horse is disqualified, trainer gets fined etc. before 6 weeks have passed. The same should be done for the Jockey's.
 
On the RP site last night there was an interview with Jack Mitchel who had issued a statement to say this was a one off and had tested clear since, if this is the case then the racing authorities have had this result for a very long time and have only now brought it to light.
 
How is this worse than abusing a whip?!?!
At least the horse isn't getting physically abused by the jockeys drink/drug problem. For me the horses welfare is my first and for most concern.
 
Dutch1horse said:
How is this worse than abusing a whip?!?!
At least the horse isn't getting physically abused by the jockeys drink/drug problem. For me the horses welfare is my first and for most concern.
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Because if a jockey has alchohol or drugs in his system he would not be fit to ride the horse to the best of his ability, surely that must compromise the horse.
 
Over here you can't ride without passing a breath test....tests are not just routine but every time you ride. Urine tests are random alright
 
Dutch1horse said:
How is this worse than abusing a whip?!?!
At least the horse isn't getting physically abused by the jockeys drink/drug problem. For me the horses welfare is my first and for most concern.
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↲Because a jockey under the influence of any banned substance is more likely to make judgement errors. Think a gap is bigger than it really is thus endangering not only himself and his horse but everyone else around him. They could mistime a jump and land in a heap on the floor at the other side of a fence. They could be braver, stupider and take more risks. You then also get the fact that the horse may go lame underneath them and they don't notice thus making the injury worse. They could misjudge timings and be going far too fast or slow. They may be in less control of their own bodies so how will they cope with half a tonne of excited muscle? Give a me few smacks with a padded whip over that lot any day!
 
i cant be bothered to get into the debate about whips. Just wanted to say that the lady may not have a drink problem but i have heard stories from a friend who is a jockey, of others who drink a bottle of wine and have hot baths the night before their race to dehydrate themselves, there fore lose water weight - to be at the weight they need to be for racing.
Yes it isnt really clever but i cant say i havent ridden whilst under the influence of alcohol and im pretty sure most hunts would be banned if they were all breath tested!
 
Franny Norton is male ;) The point about hunting is a bit non-plus because you choose to ride your horse nissed as a pewt. Jockeys are being paid for a service that is governed by a very strict body of authority. They broke the rules.
 
EKW said:
↲Because a jockey under the influence of any banned substance is more likely to make judgement errors. Think a gap is bigger than it really is thus endangering not only himself and his horse but everyone else around him. They could mistime a jump and land in a heap on the floor at the other side of a fence. They could be braver, stupider and take more risks. You then also get the fact that the horse may go lame underneath them and they don't notice thus making the injury worse. They could misjudge timings and be going far too fast or slow. They may be in less control of their own bodies so how will they cope with half a tonne of excited muscle? Give a me few smacks with a padded whip over that lot any day!
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I agree with this. Its like drink/drug driving and your judgement and reactions are caple of causing an accident. It should not be hushed up like it has.

Whips in racing will always cause s debate but this thread its about jockeys taking banned substances
 
EKW I quite agree with your posts but at the same time I find it sad that jockeys resort to such depths in order to meet the required weight.
It is madness......... :(
For a very long time now I have thought that minimum weights should be a lot higher, especially on the flat. Most flat horses could probably carry around 10stone in a race on the level, although from a handicapping point of view I think around the 10 to 11stone would be around the upper limit, with around 8 stone to 8 and a half being the lower. Considering that most flat jockeys are usually quite short in stature and light framed then those weights should be achievable.
In jump racing more horses should be carrying 12 stone and even above in a race. There are a lot of very well made TB's in jump racing that actually go on to carry a hell of a lot more when they take part in other sports such as hunting, eventing and jumping.
Personally I think handicapping is the main root of the problem with the weight issues with jockeys. I don't know how that it can be changed though so as to be fair to both horse and rider unless the official rating of horses entered in certain class types are increased so that there is less of a gap between the official handicap mark of the top weight and bottom. Yes this may be compressing the handicap, but surely this may also help prevent horses that are clearly not up to the class they are contesting in from running and either pulling up or even falling due to being taken off their feet by the pace as they are too slow.
I know such measures were imposed a few years ago in the national when the official handicap rating of horses that were eligible to enter was raised which has helped to alleviate some of the problems caused by horses that were just there to provide a pass to the course for the day's racing.
Any changes though would take time and would be gradual and in the meantime until a solution can be found jockeys will still continue to take risks with drugs and dehydration to make the weights.
It is wrong though, so wrong :(
 
I do agree about judgement errors but I am assuming they are not legless and have only had a small amount. If they came in drunk I'm sure someone would notice! We are probably talking about minimal amounts.
 
Dutch1horse said:
I do agree about judgement errors but I am assuming they are not legless and have only had a small amount. If they came in drunk I'm sure someone would notice! We are probably talking about minimal amounts.
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Some people are better at hiding their intoxication than others. It's the same with drink driving - you may think your ok to drive as you don't feel that drunk but in reality your a not quite 100% there and that will always affect your judgement.

Cocaine or any other drugs in the system is just a no go.

I didn't really start this thread to slag off the jockeys, more the BHA who open racing up so wide to the public and you can see practically anything you want but these 2 instances have been kept hush hush since May, well June by the time the test results came back. They have sat on this information and let these 2 jockeys carry on race riding day in day out all season and have only now cracked down on them now the Flat season is dumbing down for winter.
 
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