Andalusian part breeds - any advice please

lula said:
Yes you probably do. Was your mare's dam Sharp Shot (tb)? Averbelroes is my girl's name and yes she is doing very well! I know her breeder also has a gelding out of her who would be either your mare's half or full sister.?
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Yes her dam was Aftershot (by sharp shot, and her sire is lengueto) I know she does have a few full siblings around! Are you in contact with her breeder? If so it would be good if you could pm me her details I would love to get baby pictures of mine! And to share adult photos :)
 
Palindrome said:
Do you think Cortez you might be a bit biased because people send you the tricky ones while the easy ones don't have problems so you tend to see less of them?
Am not an expert at all but my family has 2 PREs imported from Andalusia and there are both easy horses. The mare is a bit sharp, but an easy ride. She was bought as a 4 years old for a 12 years old girl out of riding school, and the both of them have done really well and are regularly out competing show jumping a few years later. The gelding was trained for spectacle (can lay down, spanish walk, rear on command, etc...). At 7 he got cast in his stable and damaged a tendon in a hind leg so he was gelded and after complete healing he was sold to a beginner rider for a leisure horse life. The old owner couldn't believe how good he was for the beginner and he has been a doddle since, never reared up or done anything wrong. He does look cobby as he is a more baroque type (although he has a very straight and correct action), a stallion neck and the cutest little pony head. He is about 15hh. The mare is a more modern type with a bit more legs and height.
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Biased? Not really; I have had many of the dobbin type too, but I am concerned that people go out and buy their "dream horse" without realising that the Spanish horses are not as straightforward as what they may be used to. Thoroughbreds and Arabs are other breeds that can be difficult for the less experienced, and there are many TB's that are easy too, but perhaps people are more aware that they should be approached with caution.
 
I'm thinking Luso for my next horse - not for another year or so I doubt, but I like to plan ahead... I train with a Portuguese chap who is all for it, and would definitely help me source something nice. He's promised me they aren't all sharp! It does worry me though as I regard Fergus as about as straight forward as they come. My 5 year old is less straight forward, but he's still very generous. I don't actually want to die, but I do want a bit of a challenge :p
 
JFTD said:
I'm thinking Luso for my next horse - not for another year or so I doubt, but I like to plan ahead... I train with a Portuguese chap who is all for it, and would definitely help me source something nice. He's promised me they aren't all sharp! It does worry me though as I regard Fergus as about as straight forward as they come. My 5 year old is less straight forward, but he's still very generous. I don't actually want to die, but I do want a bit of a challenge :p
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Trust me, JFTD, you will be just fine and I predict that a Lusitano will be just the horse for you :-) If you do die, what a way to go!
 
Cortez said:
Trust me, JFTD, you will be just fine and I predict that a Lusitano will be just the horse for you :-) If you do die, what a way to go!
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Thanks :D Well that's a fine way of looking at it actually... I'd rather be thrown into the grave by a fine looking animal than put myself there by some pedestrian misadventure - like electrocuting myself in the bath.
 
JFTD said:
My 5 year old is less straight forward, but he's still very generous. I don't actually want to die, but I do want a bit of a challenge :p
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my last luso, who could be sharp, had an excellent sense of self preservation and very generous. After he passed his 6th year he was a poppet but we were plagued by health issues. Current youngster I think is going to be more challenging even though on paper, he's much less hotly bred (last one was Veiga). You'll be fine and you'll love the breed (though be warned, what the Portuguese class as sharp and what we do is often different ;) ). It's the sheer number of directions they can move in a short space of time that takes getting used to :D

I know some very laid back Andys but then they are kept and ridden by some very good people. I've known only one who seemed beyond help but he was screaming ulcers and his owner wouldn't have it. I've known a couple brought back from Portugal after 'holiday romances' with the new owner and neither ended well for a myriad of reasons. I only have personal experience with lusitanos and when it comes to horses (as opposed to ponies) I'd not have anything else now.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
my last luso, who could be sharp, had an excellent sense of self preservation and very generous. After he passed his 6th year he was a poppet but we were plagued by health issues. Current youngster I think is going to be more challenging even though on paper, he's much less hotly bred (last one was Veiga). You'll be fine and you'll love the breed (though be warned, what the Portuguese class as sharp and what we do is often different ;) ). It's the sheer number of directions they can move in a short space of time that takes getting used to :D

I know some very laid back Andys but then they are kept and ridden by some very good people. I've known only one who seemed beyond help but he was screaming ulcers and his owner wouldn't have it. I've known a couple brought back from Portugal after 'holiday romances' with the new owner and neither ended well for a myriad of reasons. I only have personal experience with lusitanos and when it comes to horses (as opposed to ponies) I'd not have anything else now.
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See that I don't mind - sharp, but not trying to kill me is largely ok with me :) Shame he had health issues after he'd grown into his brain though - I hope your current chap turns out super.

Yea, he's a bit nuts. It wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't phased by a fiery lunatic of a horse! Poor horse with the ulcers - what are people thinking ignoring physical issues like that? Iberians are the only "horse" that makes me consider stepping away from ponies (not that I'd sell mine - not in a million years!).
 
thanks :) me too! its been a tough few years on the horse front-he'll be ok, he's approaching 5 so can only get better!

they are not dissimilar to ponies tbh (I also keep Exmoors) i.e. their reactions are not far from their brains :) They are even metabolically similar lol although the weatherproofing is different. They are sharp but (mine at least) have a superb sense of self preservation, which makes them ok to deal with. I think you'd really get a real kick out of having one, they make you think and they are not for stressheads-once they get you there's nothing quite like them. Oh, they are very comfy to ride and jump like cats-nothing to not like.

Had the last one from a 3yo and when he grew up he could be handled and give pony rides to a disabled 12yo girl (leg braces and highly autistic-she's 17 now and tells me G is her new pony!)
 
OP-sorry we got side tracked. Re youngsters, I managed to get a yearling colt in at a stud with a group of others for a season. Otherwise, if you are anywhere near Lampeter, I can recommend someone.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
thanks :) me too! its been a tough few years on the horse front-he'll be ok, he's approaching 5 so can only get better!

they are not dissimilar to ponies tbh (I also keep Exmoors) i.e. their reactions are not far from their brains :) They are even metabolically similar lol although the weatherproofing is different. They are sharp but (mine at least) have a superb sense of self preservation, which makes them ok to deal with. I think you'd really get a real kick out of having one, they make you think and they are not for stressheads-once they get you there's nothing quite like them. Oh, they are very comfy to ride and jump like cats-nothing to not like.

Had the last one from a 3yo and when he grew up he could be handled and give pony rides to a disabled 12yo girl (leg braces and highly autistic-she's 17 now and tells me G is her new pony!)
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Well fingers crossed - sounds like you deserve a bit of luck! They sound super - your last one sounds like a total sweetheart, bless him.

I like pony types - if it's going to be done, it's as well it's done quickly, I say ;) Fast reactions, daft, but basically nice people underneath - sounds fun to me :D Especially with a bit of a mental challenge thrown in.

Sorry OP, I didn't mean to de-rail.
 
Cortez said:
Having trained, worked and owned Spanish and Lusitano horses for nearly 30 years I have to say that Iberian horses are very, very far from being the "cobs" that Tallyho says they are. I have had literally dozens of PRE's and Lusitanos that were here as a last chance saloon after their owners failed to get to grips with their unique character and riding requirements. Many were seriously messed up by uneducated riding and not all were fixable. A lot of riders not used to the breed are frightened by the Iberian horse's sensitivity, reactiveness and need for precise riding - the horses are frightened by this too. Of course not all Spanish/Portuguese horses are like this, there are dobbins who are perfectly happy slopping along, but as a breed they are not the easiest and I would caution anyone thinking of getting an Iberian horse to do lots of research and try out a few before taking the plunge. I wouldn't have anything else, but then I am not interested in a quiet life.
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Well... there you are Cortez, you have kind of answered your own question.

Any horse can be a looney. It's not restricted to Iberians. Dozens of Iberians and 30 years experience still does not qualify you to be the judge on every spanish and portuguese horses' personality.

I respect your experience and I agree that there are problem horses and quirky lines like in any other breed. However, having known a few breeders here and abroad, really, the spanish horse is pretty much the "cob" of spain and that is not derogatory!! Cobs are wonderful and also means "common" so I use the term thus.

The "difficult" types that have been imported by inexperienced owners were probably sold as "amazing, once in a lifetime horse" by dodgy dealers or people who go over there and become besotted by the romance of it all and end up with a dick of a stallion. They saw them coming... get rid of a dodgy horse to some "rich" woman from the UK. It's a bit of a local joke. Like it or not, it's the truth. Then you end up with pretty awful horses being bred here in the UK and the quality being pretty bad.... just count how many horses go back to Spain & Portugal for the breed shows there and see how they do.....

They save the best for themselves.
 
Mine is a Luso x TB. He can be quite sharp, but mainly he's a complete dobbin, like a big dog for lots of stuff from the ground. He's been a great jumper, very neat and careful, and very responsive in the turns. But terrified of leaves looking at him the wrong way on a hack. Not that we have much now, he's been essentially broken for the last four years!!
 
p.s. as couldn't edit above post... I am no authority whatsoever and not even close to cortez but just saying it as I hear it on my travels :)
 
tallyho! said:
The "difficult" types that have been imported by inexperienced owners were probably sold as "amazing, once in a lifetime horse" by dodgy dealers or people who go over there and become besotted by the romance of it all and end up with a dick of a stallion. .
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the ones I've known that have become difficult were all nice horses-well bred, graded etc. What happened is that they were brought over here, not treated like stallions, not ridden well and not managed well. Stallions' minds blew but there was nothing wrong with them other than being in the wrong home.
 
tallyho! said:
Well... there you are Cortez, you have kind of answered your own question.

Any horse can be a looney. It's not restricted to Iberians. Dozens of Iberians and 30 years experience still does not qualify you to be the judge on every spanish and portuguese horses' personality.

I respect your experience and I agree that there are problem horses and quirky lines like in any other breed. However, having known a few breeders here and abroad, really, the spanish horse is pretty much the "cob" of spain and that is not derogatory!! Cobs are wonderful and also means "common" so I use the term thus.

The "difficult" types that have been imported by inexperienced owners were probably sold as "amazing, once in a lifetime horse" by dodgy dealers or people who go over there and become besotted by the romance of it all and end up with a dick of a stallion. They saw them coming... get rid of a dodgy horse to some "rich" woman from the UK. It's a bit of a local joke. Like it or not, it's the truth. Then you end up with pretty awful horses being bred here in the UK and the quality being pretty bad.... just count how many horses go back to Spain & Portugal for the breed shows there and see how they do.....

They save the best for themselves.
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See, I tend to agree with Cortez - a lot of British people do have problems with iberians. This is not because they are and more hot or difficult than a thoroughbred type, but because they are different. Most people in the UK have grown up riding and training either natives or horses with a decent amount of thoroughbred in them, and that is what they're (we're) used to.

A thoroughbred type will react to things instantly which gives immediate, easy to interpret feedback to a trainer/rider - you can see what's upset them and where new behaviours are developing from. Iberians aren't like that, 9 times out of 10 you don't get the instant reaction that tells you they've picked something up or been upset by something. You're frequently left with behaviour patterns that you're scratching your head as to where they've come from.

So yes, you do need to know (or be able to quickly work out) how they tick and be understanding of behaviour stimuli that don't jump up and smack you between the eyes.

They are, for my money, the ultimate multi-purpose horse, but no, they are not for everyone.
 
Hmmm.. ok well I respect everyone's experience and opinions.

Whilst I have dealt with one or two quirky types, the majority I don't think they are that different. To me, tb's are way more difficult.
 
Spanish horses pure and partbred are working horses,they are bold brave highly intelligent and in general need a rider to match them, capable of bringing out all the wonderful qualities they have, they are bred for working the cattle and bullfighting and are capable of saving the riders life.

there are horses bred in the uk that are very good, one stallion attained the highest grading marks for 20 years, hispano arabes are a breed with a stud book and only horses reg there can be called ha, not just any old part bred arab.


I think riding Spanish horses can improve peoples riding no end.
 
tristar said:
Spanish horses pure and partbred are working horses,they are bold brave highly intelligent and in general need a rider to match them, capable of bringing out all the wonderful qualities they have, they are bred for working the cattle and bullfighting and are capable of saving the riders life.

there are horses bred in the uk that are very good, one stallion attained the highest grading marks for 20 years, hispano arabes are a breed with a stud book and only horses reg there can be called ha, not just any old part bred arab.


I think riding Spanish horses can improve peoples riding no end.
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Totally agree.

Just to add... whilst they were all "bred" to do all this work, some don't make the grade, and are highly suitable as riding horses.

Just like some tb's aren't all racehorses, some can be good riding horses.

And so on and so forth. To anyone interested in Iberians, be selective, look up bloodlines, ask people which is the best sort for your needs. In fact, ask the registrars from both stud books. They usually know the most ;)

:)
 
shortstuff99 said:
Just wondering why you think TBs are more difficult? They're a very trainable breed or they wouldn't make good racehorses!
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It's the trainability that can be the problem :p

I find iberians easier than tbs too....I struggle not to get a little tired of a tb jogging inexplicably when it could jolly well walk, or flying sideways at the sight of an upturned leaf. However, many other people find these things endearing.....
 
minkymoo said:
No, it would make it a Hispano-Arabe ;) and they are lovely!!
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I had the pleasure of riding a Luso x Arab yesterday and he was pretty darn special!
Trained to a very high level but very sensitive and definitely not for the faint hearted. I love going to ride the Iberians, always learn so much but have ponies at home for ease of use!
 
Lets not sidestep the training either...blaming the breed, the type and where they come from are all easy get-out clauses for all problems.

At the end of the day, any miscommunication between horse and trainer/rider is that there line.
 
My last mare was a Hispano-Arab and she was an absolute cracker! I got her as a just backed 4 year old and we had a fantastic few years together on the competition scene, always coming home in the ribbons. She was super talented and everything she turned her hoof to she was good at.

She was bold, sensitive and quirky and almost too clever for her own good. She was my horse of a life-time!
 
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