Angel during the day, devil at night?!

miskettie

miskettie

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 January 2010
Messages
538
Visit site
A few weeks ago I bought a new horse, he's a 5 year old Irish Sports Horse, not long from Ireland. When I tried him out he was as sweet as anything, even the vet who vetted him said he was really friendly and lovely.

Now unfortunately we had a very major accident while transporting him home (he jumped over the partition into the living of our lorry. Our lorry had to be cut apart and he had to be anethitised and dragged out - very stressfull and scary for everyone involved.). He was at the vets for a few days and they said he was very grumpy over the door. He would thorw his head up and down and make his lips wobble. Although this was a bit scary, we understood that it was probably because he was still in pain. (He luckily only escaped with scrapes and aches)

Anyway when we got him home he was still very moody, we put this down to pain again. At first he was really good with his feet being done and we could pick up the poos in his stable with him in.

Now, although he seems to be in a better mood during the day, particularly when he is about to be ridden, he's as happy as larry but then he is really naughty at night. We go out at about 8pm every night to do a final skip out before bed. He is nibbly anyway during the day but at night he bites. Yesterday evening he tried to bite my face but luckily only got my scarf...He wont let you now go in the stable with him, although he did before. I think it is particularly me that he wants to bite, which could be because one of his first experiences with me was when the incident happened with the horsebox.

He is a completley different horse, Jekyl and Hyde. I know he wants to be in, as he stands by the gate in the afternoon waiting to be brought in.

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Also how do I deal with it? Do you think it is because he still not settled or is it him being naughty? Any advice would be great!
 
miskettie said:
I know he wants to be in, as he stands by the gate in the afternoon waiting to be brought in.
Click to expand...

That doesn't necessarily mean he wants to be in - just that he wants to be fed! Is there an option to have him out at night with some hay, so you can judge whether it is being stabled at night that is upsetting him?
 
Agreed, just what I was thinking.
Be careful of using "aggressive" methods to deal with this. If he's not happy in the stable you don't need to build fear-based aggression. I don't think you should be doing anything in the stable when he's inside. Take him out and tie him up with a haynet. Make sure he's never short of hay to eat when he's in. How many hours turnout does he get?
This could be something that is building up for him, as a result of his accident, his stay at the vets, and possibly he's not used to being disturbed once he's been put to bed for the night. Could be all sorts of reasons, but I wouldn't label him as being bad, it sounds like stress.
 
Sounds like he could be a little claustraphobic after his horrible accident and he gets stressed when he feels confined! Do you possibly have a bigger stable he could use or could he live out but be brought in for short sessions so that he learns that nothing is going to happen to him in a small space? Out of interest how did he travel back from the vets?
 
First of all, what a horrific thing to happen, and how awful that must have been for you.

It could be that all this is down to the accident, or it may not. It sounds as though you too were very upset by everything, and are carrying a bit of guilt. You did everything you could, and he's been properly checked over by the vets, so I don't think that everything is totally down to the accident.

Young, large males can often go through this anyway, without the accident to blame. We had a large youngster that went through a Jekyll and Hyde stage. Things like not letting you in his stable etc - its all dominating you, which is something a new horse does to find his place in the herd (and where you are in the herd). I'm wondering if you've been so lovely to him following the accident, nursing him and fussing him, that he's decided that you're a bit of a pussycat, and not to be obeyed...

If he is enjoying being ridden, then perhaps he needs to be doing a bit more, and more handling - grooming etc. Have him moving around for you in the stable a lot - tie him up, then get him to move over from side to side a lot - just so you're dominating him a bit.

If you really are still struggling with him not allowing you to do things, or entering his stable, then get someone to help. This is a very important stage with a young horse,and he needs to learn to respect you and to have good manners. I'm not saying be cruel to him, but he needs firm, fair handling to feel secure.
 
First of all sympathies over the accident.

If he is good during the day and only more difficult at night I would not immediately jump to thinking it is a 'dominance' issue. As my job involves working with strange horses daily I am now of the opinion that this particular term is overworked at present - but that is another matter.

I would consider that for some reason or other he feels less secure at night, or there is something else going on that makes his evening/night behaviour different to that during the day.

If he were mine, I'd take a deep breath, a metaphorical (maybe literal) step back and spend some time just observing to see if I could figure it out. And in the interim I would as other posters have suggested, take him out of the box while I was skipping out etc.

For other horses I have worked with who used to try and kick anyone who entered their stable I have taken it step by step. Key was them to come to the door of the stable rather than me going into their space. Then I teach them to move their bodies around to given commands. So far so good, but mutual respect is key. Never clever to use brawn over brains.
 
First thank you everyone for your comments.

What we went through really was awful - for several hour we didn't know whether he had any injuries...thankfully he didn't.

Unfortunately he can't really stay out at night. He goes out about 7am and comes in about 4pm...it will get longer as it gets lighter. Then during the summer he will be out. We don't have a bigger stable, but there is a possibility if I continues I may be able to swap the horses around a bit (we run a DIY livery yard) but don't want to upset liveries or their horses. He seems perfectly happy in his stable until I come and say hello over the door.

I don't hit him when he bites just growl at him. I just need to nip this in the bud (excuse the pun!) before he really bites.

I don't think he claustrophobic - he doesn't rush through gateways or mind being between things. I am going to try and do some ground work with him soon, which will show me whether it is to do with this.

I now do tie him up outside while I skip him.

He travelled back from the vets in the old owners horsebox (a big horsebox), although slightly sedated he travelled fine. We're having our horsebox fixed and adjusted so that same thing will never happen again.

Honey08 & Lucypriory - that's really helpful. I think he is trying to be a little bit dominant with a bit of what everyone else has said mixed in. He is a saint out in the field and hasn't tried to change the pecking order. We have a very dominant gelding over the fence from Enys and Enys doesn't batter an eyelid when the gelding squeals at him. He has our two mares in with him, both smaller and older - he lets them go through the gate first even if he's standing nearby.

We've had to take it easy ridden-wise for the last few weeks but just had a saddle fitted and then hopefully can start working him properly (and get his brain working!).

I am getting someone out to help us when we first load him again, I want someone who isn't going to be worrying...unfortunately the lady i've asked can only do it in a month's time.

Phew...long post. In the end I know it's just time...but I don't want to do the wrong thing and then have him being a moody biter the rest of his life. I've always had moody mares and hoped by getting a gelding I wouldn't have to deal with that!

Thanks again for reading.

Just to proove he is a happy boy out in the field (he's the grey):

Enys_DSC04857.jpg
 
flamehead said:
Is there any chance he has poor eyesight?
Click to expand...

It's entirely possible, though his eyes are bright - we do have lights on etc when we do the evening stables.

We have the vet coming on Wednesday (just to give the final all clear + jabs) I will ask her to have a look. Thank you.
 
I just wonder whether perhaps it might be because its darker in his box and he's struggling to see, therefore you mucking out etc around him is spooking him.

Its probably as above though, I dont think its likely but worth a thought!!
 
Thanks flamehead, I will get the vet to check. Even if its not likely as you said is worth a though.

I did a bit of ground work with Enys this afternoon, I led him through narrow spaces (two jumps set up and led him through them) and he didn't batter an eyelid. So I don't think he is claustrophobic...maybe just protective of his own space? Or he is just trying to dominate me? When handling he does invade my own space a bit, but this is something I can work on.
 
We had a Tbx Welsh D who was fine in the mornings, but awful in the evening. She had a number of food intolerances, which caused the problem. We stopped sugars and cereals and had a much calmer, far less grumpy horse, may be worth having a look at.
 
Hi, firstly what an awful accident ...

I wonder if he is genuinely scared being in confined spaces and that is why he jumped the partition in the lorry originally.

I know you mention he is fine going through gates but a field gateway is open and has space all around, a stable or lorry is closed in .... did you view him in a stable when you went to buy him ?

Just a thought...

Hope you all recover from the accident soon:):)
 
Although you say he was very good when you went to see him and when he was vetted is there anything the previous owner can tell you.

What was he like in the stable with the previous owner.If he was good then all the recent problems could stem from the accident.

What is he like in the stable during the day when there is daylight.

You say that the vets are happy with him physically but there is sometimes a psychological aspect to deal with after such trauma. You could try to use Lavender or Rose oils that will help to calm him.

Using Essential oils can help.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top