Angry farmer

Regardless of the legalities I really dont think thats morally right- A farmer is expected to watch eagleeyed over his fields and put expensive gates etc in to prevent trespassers so that they cant ride on HIS property and then force through a 'creation order'?! Of course some of these riders may be careful respectful riders and a private arrangement could be made, but there is no guarantee that this is the case or that this will continue with other riders.

As people on here have said there are arrangements you may be lucky enough to make which are cordial and whereby you pay the owner for respectful use of his land.

I'm not a farmer but I still think that is really rude to try and force access on his land and that by doing it you encourage him to work his hardest to prevent any other bridleways opening whereas by treating him respectfully and paying your due you may even gain access to further land to ride on. Im not surprised some farmers are fuming! I agree with joeanne - good oldfashioned manners are the way forward! :)

Eta - the estate near us used to do a riding scheme where you paid for a year and got a bib to ride on some of their land (a substantial amount of land) and the money went to the air ambulance. I believe DEFRA or some such body supported it and something changed so they withdrew their support. However the estate then CHOSE to have almost all of the same land opened free of charge as bridle ways to support the local riding community - miles and miles of great bridleways. I seriously doubt, had riders tried to force access that this generous family would have acted so incredibly graciously. Perhaps they received a subsidy for it but if so I doubt it was enough for the value of what it cost them in terms for potential crop damage and responsibility to maintain as well as it being a long term commitment.
 
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Every year at the end of the hunting season we put up No Horses signs on the headlands etc around the Estate where I work, we also write to all those with permission and ask them not to ride on these areas - you would be suprised at the number of iliterate riders there are (including an international eventer) - or maybe our signs should say No Horses & RIDERS as horses cannot read!
 
I read it as meaning they have permission in hunting season, but they write & ask them not to when the seasons over, whereas if they never gave them permission they wouldn't ever benefit. At least i'm guessing it means that.
 
We have lovely farmers around here, they are more than happy to let people ride around their fields, leave edges and keep them cut so we can have a good gallop, however a few are now totally fed up with horse riders that are abusing the privelege (mostly stubble fields) due to pre-drilling the seed in on stubble fields, and have caught numerous riders galloping flat out over the stubble fields.

All they ask is you ask for permission to ride on their land and stick to the edges, they are now threatening to stop all horse riders on their land if it continues, down to a few selfish few who think that galloping on the stubble fields is there given right.
 
Suppose we could try and get municipal menages as they provide skateboard/bike ramps provided by councils, but think it is a very long shot.
 
tiffpiff said:
I am not presuming i have the right .. i am very careful and never go on crops but he was so cross he wouldnt let me talk and explain that i had no idea it wasnt a bridleway.. and as some poor girl died from falling off on the road near by and surely the council should be making bridleways as well as walk ways and cycle routes
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Maybe he'd had a bad day and/or had some horse damage on his land and you got the brunt of it... What the council should be doing is hardly his problem and they certainly can't just eye up a bit of his (or any other farmed land) to produce bridle paths... Or should he also provide a barn when a youth club closes down and a nice bit of ground complete with play equipment when a park falls to shambles?

joeanne said:
How about you go buy a bottle of the hard stuff, knock on his door and firstly apologise for the misunderstanding. Then give him your peace offering, and explain you now understand his anger as you didn't know it was not a bridle path and is there anything you could do to to help him see his way clear to letting you ride on his land?
Most farmers (particularly arable farmers) worry about damage to land and crops, but if you can show him your willingness to abide by any rules he lays down he might have a change of heart.
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This is what I was going to suggest...:)

Before getting caught riding or dog walking or just randomly wandering on someone's land I get in touch with the relevant farmer just to see if they'd mind... I've even had one with prominent "no dogs" signs everywhere tell me that yeah, because I'd been considerate enough to ask they were happy for me to use x field to exercise my dog between certain months when it wouldn't be used for livestock and we keep in touch with any changes at his end and anything out of the ordinary that I notice - signs of kids camping or gates left open etc... Most times they're just trying to make a living and get frustrated with their land being used as communal property... I know I would...
 
I just had to Google this,
the average farm size in the UK is 56ha. France is the same.


There's absolutely no issues with access here. I'd forgotten how closed the UK was. The attitude of farmers and large land owners in the UK are hardening all the time an restricting access more and more, putting pressure on the limited riding available. It's no wonder people end up in conflict. There's a tradition in the UK of 'git orf my laand' and stuff you I'm alright jack,that attitude is not encountered here. I think if there was a right to access the pressure would be reduced and people would become more educated to the ways of the farm. Too many people have no idea how a farm works. Everyone is lumped together be it walkers, cyclists, green laners, quads, trail bikes, carriage drivers and horse riders. If access where opened up the pressure would all but disappear. Myself I have 12ha with a river running through. If someone wants to fish in the river. All they have to do is tell me. I don't see the problem with using a farm track? If a farmer spoke to me the way the OP says he spoke to her, I have have give him verbal tirade to match his own. I certainly wouldn't be kissing his butt. Note the OP was on a track, not destroying the hard working farmers crops as is suggested. I find it bizarre that most people who answered this thread are standing by the very people who are prohibiting there own enjoyment and forcing them to use tarmac??

The main problem in the UK is that 0.6 per cent of the population own 50 per cent of rural land. If there's a chance to open more bridleways/green lanes, why wouldn't you try? The status quo obviously isn't working.
 
Farmers don't prohibit my enjoyment. If I want to ride on someones property I ask beforehand, with a bottle & either offer money or an extra pair of hands if they need it. That way they also believe i'm responsible enough to stay off the crops. Local golf club has land that screams 'gallop track' around the perimeter, but I don't go on that either. It's not fair we don't have more bridleways, perhaps farmers would all be more amenable if people didn't just assume its ok to trespass. We could use the same logic that there's a block of flats near me without gardens, does it mean I have to share mine with the residents?
 
lazybee said:
I just had to Google this,
the average farm size in the UK is 56ha. France is the same.


There's absolutely no issues with access here. I'd forgotten how closed the UK was. The attitude of farmers and large land owners in the UK are hardening all the time an restricting access more and more, putting pressure on the limited riding available. It's no wonder people end up in conflict. There's a tradition in the UK of 'git orf my laand' and stuff you I'm alright jack,that attitude is not encountered here. I think if there was a right to access the pressure would be reduced and people would become more educated to the ways of the farm. Too many people have no idea how a farm works. Everyone is lumped together be it walkers, cyclists, green laners, quads, trail bikes, carriage drivers and horse riders. If access where opened up the pressure would all but disappear. Myself I have 12ha with a river running through. If someone wants to fish in the river. All they have to do is tell me. I don't see the problem with using a farm track? If a farmer spoke to me the way the OP says he spoke to her, I have have give him verbal tirade to match his own. I certainly wouldn't be kissing his butt. Note the OP was on a track, not destroying the hard working farmers crops as is suggested. I find it bizarre that most people who answered this thread are standing by the very people who are prohibiting there own enjoyment and forcing them to use tarmac??

The main problem in the UK is that 0.6 per cent of the population own 50 per cent of rural land. If there's a chance to open more bridleways/green lanes, why wouldn't you try? The status quo obviously isn't working.
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The main problem is the selfish and irisponsable attitude of Joe and joanna public , rubbish left everwhere , fences dammaged gates left open , crops damaged dogs and kids out of control, livestock worryed, rude self absorbed morons who think whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine and have a total lack of manners and respect for other people !!!! thats why landowners and tennant farmers get so upset... oh and forget useing france as an example they have a tiny population compared with the UK ...
 
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perfect11s said:
The main problem is the selfish and irisponsable attitude of Joe and joanna public , rubbish left everwhere , fences dammaged gates left open , crops damaged dogs and kids out of control, livestock worryed, rude self absorbed morons who think whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine and have a total lack of manners and respect for other people !!!! thats why landowners and tennant farmers get so upset... oh and forget useing france as an example they have a tiny population compared with the UK ...
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Spot on....imagine someone walked through your back garden....allowed their dog to foul it up, chase your rabbit, then sat down, had a picnic leaving rubbish everywhere, and for good measure broke your gate on the way out.
Would you be cross? I know I flipping well would be!
 
perfect11s said:
The main problem is the selfish and irisponsable attitude of Joe and joanna public , rubbish left everwhere , fences dammaged gates left open , crops damaged dogs and kids out of control, livestock worryed, rude self absorbed morons who think whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine and have a total lack of manners and respect for other people !!!! thats why landowners and tennant farmers get so upset... oh and forget useing france as an example they have a tiny population compared with the UK ...
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The population of France is actually bigger than the UK....

The attitude of big land owners contributes to the divisions. It's hardly a surprise people don't understand what farming's all about. Who is Joe and Joanna public anyway? are setting yourself as some sort of an elite? By the way, you'd be hard pressed to find examples or crop damage, that one's a red herring. Lots of people like the BASC and the CLA throw it up but in reality it's a myth. I agree there are some ignorant people who don't care, but balance that with the silent majority the likes of you and me (not anymore) who suffer through lack of access; and end up a road statistic.
 
I am always amazed at the attitude of some that think they can ride where ever they like. The other amazing misconception is that farmers leave a strip round the edge of the field and mow it so we can have some where to ride. This strip is left for wildlife and is part of the regulations for the Single Farm Payment that farmers apply for every year. Should they get an inspection and this headland is damaged due to lots of galloping horses the farmer might infact lose some or part of his SFP. This could be literally tens of thousands of pounds depending on the size of his farm.

It's a good job it wasn't me who caught someone riding round our farm where they shouldn't be!
 
Firstly horses will only do damage to land if galloping across it when the ground is wet, muddy or else if there are huge numbers using that piece of land. I have ridden in fields where there has been a bridleway or permissive access and the farmer has known about it. Despite being tempted by open gates when out hacking and huge grass fields I have never just gone in and helped myself. Why, because it is rude. That land belongs to someone and if I wanted to use it I would go and ask permission first. 2 reasons, one because I am polite and the other because I want to portray that horse riders have manners. I feel this approach is more likely to allow horse riders access to farmer's land and other estates rather than joyriding. I always ride around the edge unless the access to get to the bridleway gate is through the middle in which case I have turned off and ridden up. This has always been on grassed fields though, not with crops in. It has mostly been in summer and care has been taken so as not to churn up the ground if it is wet, ie no fast work along that section.
However I have galloped across grassed land without any damage and I have big horses. Being selective when doing this is the key, ie not to disturb any livestock which is present in the field ( ie a good distance away) and noting underfoot conditions.
If was the OP I would write a note and pop a bottle of something around to the farmer and leave your name. Then leave it a few weeks and go around to see him and explain in person and if the conversation goes well THEN ask about riding on there in the future and offer some form of compensation, ie funds, offer of help, booze etc.
I would NOT approach this person straightaway with the idea of securing riding rights. Firstly he may well still be pretty darned pisd about the idea as the reasons for him being upset are not known. Secondly to offer a bribe and then ask about riding may come across as a bit rude, farmers are intelligent people and will soon work out that the bottle etc is just a sweetener to ask for something which is why if it was me I wouldn't be asking about the riding at the same time.
Also as others have said get to see your local maps and see if the track or land has any rights of way on it for horse riders.
Good luck OP x
 
We derive our LIVING from our land, ok, it may give us a nice to place to live but apart from that it is our business. If people want somewhere to ride, go out and do what we have done and pay for it (we rent most of our farm). As said by a previous poster, we have to leave field margins, it is part of our cross compliance and i am not prepared to give up any of my sfp because people want somewhere to ride. We work very hard to keep our farm and our living, it is not there for other peoples enjoyment. Dog walkers seem to think its ok to let their pets poop all over our fields to be grazed by our sheep, oh, and their dog wouldn't chase them! Walkers who want to look at the view and horse riders who want to have a tank around. Sorry, when you buy any animal, dog/ horse, part of that responsibility is knowing how and where you will exercise it. If you haven't your own or access to public footpaths/bridleways and are unwilling to use the roads maybe people shouldn't be having these animals.
 
jrp204 said:
We derive our LIVING from our land, ok, it may give us a nice to place to live but apart from that it is our business. If people want somewhere to ride, go out and do what we have done and pay for it (we rent most of our farm). As said by a previous poster, we have to leave field margins, it is part of our cross compliance and i am not prepared to give up any of my sfp because people want somewhere to ride. We work very hard to keep our farm and our living, it is not there for other peoples enjoyment. Dog walkers seem to think its ok to let their pets poop all over our fields to be grazed by our sheep, oh, and their dog wouldn't chase them! Walkers who want to look at the view and horse riders who want to have a tank around. Sorry, when you buy any animal, dog/ horse, part of that responsibility is knowing how and where you will exercise it. If you haven't your own or access to public footpaths/bridleways and are unwilling to use the roads maybe people shouldn't be having these animals.
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If everyone had this attitude we'd all be knackered :eek:
 
Makes me glad i live in Scotland :D, that said i still ask about riding on farm land and no matter how tempting, stick to the perimeter of the fields unless ive been given the ok to welly over it. Im very lucky that i rent my yard from a farmer who had horses and is ok with me riding responsibly over his land, that is a real gift and i wont do anything to jepordise it
 
Thanks again everyone
I will let you know how it went.. im deffo NOT going to try and get access without permission .i am not a rude person ..i just have an old horse that i like to enjoy the countryside on ..we dont move faster than a trot bless him
I will try the bottle of drink and a letter of apology...see where it goes from there.. I know my comments have annoyed some of you and some of you feel im letting
the horse world down..but it was a genuine mistake i had no idea there was no bridleways in the area..
 
I have read all posts and maybe I have missed it, but do not forget one of the most important things...Disease.....yes you pick put your horses feet,but, then ride to farms or bridleways...please do not ride anywhere without permission....
 
lazybee said:
If everyone had this attitude we'd all be knackered :eek:
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I think you've forgotten how hard it is to be a farmer or land tenant in the UK, Lazybee. ;)

OP, when my ponies got onto someone else's land and trashed some of his hay crop (due to dog walkers taking down the fence between mine and his fields, to make access for THEIR trespassing easier!), I baked a cake and bought some real ales and took them round there, with a huge apology. This was after I'd come face to face with him (after getting the call to say the ponies were out) and receiving a tirade of ranting about horse owners and people thinking they had the right to go wherever they pleased.

I was incredibly nervous after our first encounter, but he was so pleased with my efforts I had a lovely phone call from his missus (I'd given them my number in case it happened again) and an offer of livery if I ever needed it! We were friendly neighbours after that, so it just goes to show what a peace offering can do.

If he was really abusive, then yes, write a letter, but back it up with a homemade something and beer - worked for me! Explain that you'd genuinely thought it was a bridleway and finish by asking would he be willing to negotiate a toll ride for you and other paying riders? Research the process and explain how it works in the letter. If there were gates (locked with combination padlock) paid for by either a grant or the riders, then this would both provide him with more income and reduce the pressure on his land.

If he refuses, then respect that (and say you will in the letter!). At least you will have let him know that not every rider is a joyrider with the attitude of the common rambler, out for world domination and access to everything but the Queen's knickers.
 
This is why I always check an OS map before hacking on anything other than roads.

Having liveried at a yard for years and years with lot of private hacking I can completely understand farmers frustration with people walking wherever they fancied. Trying to explain to people that they are on private land that does not have a public right away was useless and you just suffered abuse.
I hate people's attitudes that they can ride/walk wherever they fancy, how would they like it if we just turned up and walked all over their garden?

For your own safety you shouldn't go riding around private land without permission, you never know what you might find. How would you know if a farmer had been working on his hedges, fencing or whatever and hadn't left wire on the ground or something?
 
Not much to add other than you can get ordinance survey maps online for free with bing maps - I always use it to check out the local bridle paths.

Good luck with the chat - hope it goes well :)
 
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