Another back shoes question

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Halfstep

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My horse has never had back shoes on. But the other day the farrier said to me that unless he grows more foot next time he'll be putting shoes on behind. Plus he said that usually he puts lateral extentions behind on dressage horses who are a medium and above for support. Does this make sense to you? Horse is obviously wearing his back feet from the work (doesn't hack much, this would be arena work), not the toes but the actual foot.
 
I had the same with my horse. Although his feet were strong, they did not grow very fast, even with a suppliment. I was hacking twice a week at the time. Farrier said the same - anymore work and hind shoes will be going on!
 
That's a bit back to front - not sure why farriers get it upside down and inside out like that. Feet aren't stimulated to grow if they only work on soft/artifical surfaces or are turned out in a field, which is why your horses' hinds aren't growing. But if you hacked out more - four times a week say on the roads or hard/rocky/abrasive surfaces - the horn would be stimulated into growing and you'd get more foot and a better quality of horn and you wouldn't need hind shoes. In other words the harder the hooves work the faster they grow - which is why the wild mustangs can travel 20 odd miles every day of their lives, over the rockiest of terrain and don't end up with bloody stumps!
 
ditto the above!

mine works barefoot and is fine, ok only 5 and schooling elem/med but still.
previous mare was barefoot and schooling GP, her feet were fine, her legs were fine etc.

iv never understood the theory that extending the shoe supports the hock-how? how does a cm more steel nailed to the foot support the joint half way up the leg?! sorry not having a go at you HS-just slightly mad theory of many farriers!
 
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iv never understood the theory that extending the shoe supports the hock-how? how does a cm more steel nailed to the foot support the joint half way up the leg?! sorry not having a go at you HS-just slightly mad theory of many farriers!

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i don't understand this either to be honest. Perhaps widening the base of support? But regarding the foot, the horse is turned out every day and walks on roads and rough track daily. But I can see myself that he isn't growing much foot, and the heels look low behind. having said that, he has good quality horn and a very healthy frog - better than his (shod) fronts.

Arrggh, what to do?
 
Unfortunately turning out on British fields doesn't stimulate the hoof to grow, the ground is far too soft - you need turn out on rocky/gravelly areas with almost constant movement to achieve that (the theory behind Paddock Paradise systems - http://paddockparadise.wetpaint.com/page/Paddock+Paradise+Videos). And walking daily just on a track for a few metres is also not really going to stimulate the hoof to grow. I'm talking about hacking out on roads and hard/rough tracks at trot or canter for at least an hour every other day. The more work you do the faster and thicker the horn will grow. The heels may look low but that's the way they grow in a healthy hoof - there's a big difference between low heels (where the hair line is nice and close to the ground) and under run heels which are a weakness (usually caused by shoeing!).

I don't get the heel extensions either - if the back of the foot is strong then this acts as the shock absorber, support system. Putting extra long heels on the shoes will surely only alter the way the horse puts his feet down and increase the risk of injury in the long term - a bit like us running marathons in high heels! No wonder so many dressage horses get hock disease and PSD injuries if that's what farriers do as standard practise
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If you can I'd resist the urge to put shoes on the hinds and just see how he goes - as I explained low heels are normal on healthy (unshod hooves) and as long as he's sound why bother with shoes? If he wears his hinds down to bloody stumps then I'll eat my hat.
 
thanks for that g_g, much appreciated. He is hardly at the bloody stump phase! And hopefully he'll start growing a bit more foot in spring anyway, his feet grow mega fast in summer months, needs a trim every 4 weeks.
 
Interesting you should mention about his hinds.
Another livery at same yard, her farrier is also requesting they put hinds on her horse because his hinds are coming so square.

I wonder if the arena is more abrassive than others? Its hardly because you hack out day in day out for hours.

If hes happy without I wouldnt bother, seeing him at the weekend his feet didnt look in bad condition!
 
Humm, interesting! Wonder if our school is abrasive. He isn't squaring his hind toes at all (v active behind though) but apparently his actual foot isn't growing much. But then again, would you expect it to in Jan/Feb?
Sigh, it is so hard to know who to listen to.
 
Thats a good point re active hind leg, cos said horse DOESNT.... he drags his hinds something rotten hence the squaring.

I agree regarding the growing of hoof tho, not at this time of year.

Horse First's hoof supplement has done wonders for Winston who for years suffered with seedy toe. Now he has a healthy growth of hoof every 6 wks and farrier is delighted with them.
 
theres def an issue with abrasive surfaces wearing down the FRONT of the foot-IME the sole/wall is stimulated to grow quicker by the abrasive surface but theres bugger all you can do to stop the front of the toes being worn away so sometimes shoes are needed. this is a slightly different issue to the horse supposedly not growing enough foot.

my arena is sand but a thick rubber topping so i dont have any issues with the front being worn away fortunately, i think if i worked on the very coarse orange sand, i might do.

if he looks happy and feels happy, i wouldnt worry HS-he will be quick to tell you if he is sore behind (and FWIW, if he does come up sore id go for shoes, no point fannying around with boots etc when you want him to be happy and comfy at shows and remain in work properly. im very pro BF when it CAN be done but am also pro shoes when needed
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thanks for that g_g, much appreciated. He is hardly at the bloody stump phase! And hopefully he'll start growing a bit more foot in spring anyway, his feet grow mega fast in summer months, needs a trim every 4 weeks.

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No worries - it's really hard when your farrier tells you one thing but your instincts tell you another. Just watch that spring grass though - nothing weakens the hoof more than the fructans in grass. Traditionally a lot of people will take shoes off over winter and manage fine, then it gets to spring/summer and the horse goes a bit footy so they put shoes back on - blaming hard ground. In fact it's not the hard ground to blame but the fructans in the grass. Horses hooves love hard ground - it's their ideal environment. Unfortunately lush green fields are not
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Re the squaring off of the toes. Mine all do this - they're just creating their own breakover point. Domesticated horses are generally allowed to grow much longer toes than their wild cousins - the long toe is unnatural and left to it's own devices (i.e. no shoe getting in the way) the horse will wear it's hooves to suit it's own individual conformation and action.
 
Thanks everyone, I think you've confirmed that I should go with my instinct! But I will put him on a hoof supplement as he's fed pretty basically (straights) and might well be a bit deficient.
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Blitz has back shoes on with wider webs to help him push more from behind.

It was Emile who suggested we put this type of shoe on as he felt it would help him.

Nothing else of ours has back shoes on and he was happy with Diva to be left without - he felt it would be of benefit to Blitz so we went with it.
 
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iv never understood the theory that extending the shoe supports the hock-how? how does a cm more steel nailed to the foot support the joint half way up the leg?! sorry not having a go at you HS-just slightly mad theory of many farriers!

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Who mentioned the hock??
The shoe can support lower down for sure. Had a horse with really bad windgalls from a previous racing life, they are much improved from the support of a longer back shoe.
 
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