Another barefoot question, I'm sorry!!

[AFlapjack]

Last winter farrier took back shoes off mine and my brother's ponies as we wanted to put them in the same field.

Farrier came out when they were next due and said my boy was very sore and walking on his soles so advised me to put shoes back on, so I did. Brother's pony was ok so hers have stayed off.

This year my boy lost a front shoe out hunting so got farrier out (approx a week later) and he said that he (pony) had really worn down his foot and was walking on his sole again and quite sore.

Last year I was so determined to go barefoot with him but it seems he wont be able to cope

No specific question as such, and excuse my ignorance, but why does my pony seem to suffer more and can someone explain about walking on his sole etc. How would that improve if he did go barefoot?

Also recently he has started over reaching. He caught his heel about a month ago and obviously took a shoe off not long ago. What could be causing him to do this?

Thanks

 

[Oberon]

Your farrier was saying your pony was sore.

Was your pony sore?

 

[AFlapjack]

Your farrier was saying your pony was sore.

Was your pony sore?

Yes in the week between losing his shoe and having it back on, he was lame on it on hard ground (concrete, stones etc.) but ok on soft grass so he was kept out 24/7.

When he had his backs off he was much slower to ride overall and not tracking up as much etc. but I thought that would probably happen to begin with anyway. He was never lame though.

 

[Goldenstar]

I can only echo Oberon question did the pony look sore to you ?
What did the farrier see that made him say the pony was sore ?

 

[Oberon]

Yes in the week between losing his shoe and having it back on, he was lame on it on hard ground (concrete, stones etc.) but ok on soft grass so he was kept out 24/7.

When he had his backs off he was much slower to ride overall and not tracking up as much etc. but I thought that would probably happen to begin with anyway. He was never lame though.

Ok.

The week where he lost a shoe isn't fair as a comparison as he will be used to wearing shoes and not prepared for being BF.

We have learnt over the years that there are reasons why horses are sore on their hooves.

1) Diet - too much starch and sugar and too little balance of minerals. Biggest cause of problems. Can never be under estimated.

2) Inappropriate trimming - frogs and sole should not be trimmed in a BF horse, even when it is standard procedure for a farrier to do so usually.

3) Infection - thrush may not be visible but it can easily infect the sulcus and it's very painful for the horse. (also diet can help this).

A healthy BF horse with a good diet will NEVER wear their hooves out. They get STRONGER with work. You will wear your backside out first.

As far as weight bearing goes...

BF horses have much shorter hooves - this is because they can only go as long as they are supposed to be by design.

Shod hooves are often too long (which puts strain on the laminae) but it's so tragically common it's considered normal

Shod hooves bear weight on the walls only.

Healthy BF hooves bear weight on the walls, toe callus, frog, heels. How much load they put on each part differs with each step as part of the hoof mechanism.

You can see the differences in load in these pictures.

 

[tallyho!]

Which bit of sole was he walking on? The whole foot is designed to work together and that includes the sole. If your farrier is trimming foot AND sole, no wonder he is sore, what is he walking on? No wonder he needs shoes.

Why don't you take the shoes off, turn away and let the whole foot grow. It takes time and in that time make sure he's eating a barefoot diet.

If in doubt, please do look at Peter rameys, Jamie Jackson, Lucy priory, nic barker, Sarah braithewaites and the hundreds of other blogs and such so you get an idea of what the sole ought to be like. You can then make comparisons and discuss with farrier.

 

[AFlapjack]

Ok.

The week where he lost a shoe isn't fair as a comparison as he will be used to wearing shoes and not prepared for being BF.

We have learnt over the years that there are reasons why horses are sore on their hooves.

1) Diet - too much starch and sugar and too little balance of minerals. Biggest cause of problems. Can never be under estimated.

2) Inappropriate trimming - frogs and sole should not be trimmed in a BF horse, even when it is standard procedure for a farrier to do so usually.

3) Infection - thrush may not be visible but it can easily infect the sulcus and it's very painful for the horse. (also diet can help this).

A healthy BF horse with a good diet will NEVER wear their hooves out. They get STRONGER with work. You will wear your backside out first.

As far as weight bearing goes...

BF horses have much shorter hooves - this is because they can only go as long as they are supposed to be by design.

Shod hooves are often too long (which puts strain on the laminae) but it's so tragically common it's considered normal

Shod hooves bear weight on the walls only.

Healthy BF hooves bear weight on the walls, toe callus, frog, heels. How much load they put on each part differs with each step as part of the hoof mechanism.

You can see the differences in load in these pictures.

Thank you for the reply, the photos are very interesting.

He is fed Topspec Lite Balancer and chaff (Alfa A or Hi Fi depending on how well he's doing).

Here are a couple of photos of his feet. To me they don't look like unhealthy feet and I was surprised when the farrier said he wasn't coping at all.

This is when he lost his front shoe, I did notice it was a lot shorter than his other front.

Which bit of sole was he walking on? The whole foot is designed to work together and that includes the sole. If your farrier is trimming foot AND sole, no wonder he is sore, what is he walking on? No wonder he needs shoes.

Why don't you take the shoes off, turn away and let the whole foot grow. It takes time and in that time make sure he's eating a barefoot diet.

If in doubt, please do look at Peter rameys, Jamie Jackson, Lucy priory, nic barker, Sarah braithewaites and the hundreds of other blogs and such so you get an idea of what the sole ought to be like. You can then make comparisons and discuss with farrier.

I don't understand what he meant by walking on the sole but that's what he said, "He's walking on his sole and not the walls" or something like that. I can't quite remember so I don't know.

I did toy with the idea of turning him away but he's at uni with me and it would be a waste of livery/money at the moment.

I will have a google for the blogs, thanks

 

[tallyho!]

The foot looks shorter because the other foot has a shoe on lol!! It looked fine to me...

All feet looked ok. I think your farrier is trimming the sole quite clearly to make him walk on the wall of the hoof. This is totally wrong. There needs to be an even balance as you can see from those hoof prints. It's not your farriers fault, it is how they are taught to think. Which is why it is wise to do your own thinking... After all you know your horse better than they do.

If you can't turn away, buy yourself a pair of hoof boots. They cost about £85 for cavallos or easyboots. That way, the hoof can develop while you ride. They last approx 2 years so well worth a pair and I found I did not use mine after about 6 months... This is also why you will find many 2nd hand pairs. If you go down this route, contact seller for exact size matching.

 

[Salsero]

Sorry to butt in, but I'm new to the forum and was wondering where barefoot issues get discussed, as there doesn't seem to be a relevant section.

 

[AFlapjack]

The foot looks shorter because the other foot has a shoe on lol!! It looked fine to me...

All feet looked ok. I think your farrier is trimming the sole quite clearly to make him walk on the wall of the hoof. This is totally wrong. There needs to be an even balance as you can see from those hoof prints. It's not your farriers fault, it is how they are taught to think. Which is why it is wise to do your own thinking... After all you know your horse better than they do.

If you can't turn away, buy yourself a pair of hoof boots. They cost about £85 for cavallos or easyboots. That way, the hoof can develop while you ride. They last approx 2 years so well worth a pair and I found I did not use mine after about 6 months... This is also why you will find many 2nd hand pairs. If you go down this route, contact seller for exact size matching.

lol obviously it would be shorter because it has no shoe, but seriously I measured it (albeit with my hand) and they were different lengths (minus the shoe ) but that could be normal, idk!

God, all this info will make my head explode. Need to find the time to sit down, read through it all, make a plan and go from there!

I would really love to eventually get him barefoot so will definitely read up on the subject when I get the time.

 

[paddy555]

lol obviously it would be shorter because it has no shoe, but seriously I measured it (albeit with my hand) and they were different lengths (minus the shoe ) but that could be normal, idk!

God, all this info will make my head explode. Need to find the time to sit down, read through it all, make a plan and go from there!

I would really love to eventually get him barefoot so will definitely read up on the subject when I get the time.

I think that before considering barefoot you are right you need to read and read about it. This is a very easy site to start on
www.barefoothorse.com

I think most people who are successful leave their shoes on for another 6 weeks, adjust their diet (top spec balancer has caused footy problems and some barefoot horses, not all, have problems with alfalfa. Then they read and plan a campaign of action. Also deal with thrush.
When the shoes are finally removed they also make sure that the farrier trims as little as possible and definitely doesn't trim any sole.
That seems to be the best way to set it up for success.

Your pony doesn't seem to suffer more it is just a case that you haven't got everything sorted to give him the maximum chance of success.

 

[Oberon]

Sorry to butt in, but I'm new to the forum and was wondering where barefoot issues get discussed, as there doesn't seem to be a relevant section.

There isn't one - just plonk your question anywhere and the Barefoot Taliban will find you

 

[Oberon]

From what I can see in the pics, his hooves actually look very nice.

Walls are short.
There's a good wall connection.

Unless there is hideous contraction of his heels from the sole view - I reckon he's got great feet!

If you wish to go BF, I wouldn't be worried about how he'd cope.

Despite eating TopSpec AND alfalfa (

) he looks like he's managing well on it (BF horses don't traditionally often get on with either) so it must work for him.

My main worry would be with your farrier's belief that horses should only bear weight on the wall. As I said before, the differences in weight bearing areas in shod and BF horses are clear and well known.

I'm not suggesting you change your farrier as it looks like he is doing a good job. I only advise caution and if considering BF, that you arm yourself with The Rules of trimming a BF horse in order to steer your farrier away from being too aggressive with his trimming and lameing the pony. Done properly, it's actually much quicker and easier to trim a BF horse!

The tips to success for a straightforward horse are simple.

1) Diet - low sugar and starch, high minerals. The biggest stumbling block for some BF horses and it's importance cannot be under estimated.

2) Movement - work and stimulation makes hooves stronger. They need to be used and abused.

3) Sympathetic trimming (leave the sole and frog alone or the horse will go lame).

Of all the things you read about BF and all the theories etc- those three things are the basic crux of it all