Another barefoot thread!

[MattFranks]

Carrying on from my posts in the boots vs shoes thread, I'd like to reply to some of the comments.

Firstly, thanks to amandap for the link to the bowker research. I hadnt read it before, and found much of it interesting.

I'd like to state again, that just because I'm questioning some of the claims made by pro-barefoot people, doesn't mean that I am anti-barefoot. I have said before in other threads that I am in favour of what ever hoof care plan is nessesary for any given equine at any given time, whether that is shod or unshod. As a farrier I have the ability to provide a complete hoof care service, and although I am slightly biased towards shoes, I do appreciate that they are detremental to some horses.

Almost every barefoot website I visit makes similar statements regarding the damaging effects of shoes. Although these claims are most definately true for some horses, I find it quite offensive that it is implied that all shoes damage all horses. I think most people who have horses would agree with that.

Quoting JennyHarvey from the other thread...

I have read claims on that the circulation is reduced by 75 % in shod feet, but cant find any quantative evidence to support it. I would of thought that having 25% of normal blood flow would rapidly cause ischaemic necrosis, yet the overwhelming majority of shod horses seem to be healthy.

"I dont agree with that. All of the horses that i have removed shoes from have had very bad WLD, and/or thrush. Why?
How come that the longer the horse wears shoes, or the earlier they are shod, the more tender they are once the shoes are removed. Some feet deteriorate quicker than others, so end up with navicular at 6, whereas some take a lot longer to get this bad. Obviously their are a lot of varibles regarding this, like farrier competency, diet and lifestyle, age horse was shod.

If the shoes do not damage the feet or effect blood flow, why then is there this infection of the white line, or why are some horses crippled by shoes?
If the philosophy of horse shoeing is so adament that shoeing doesnt effect the hooves negatively, then why cant you shoe a horse its full life, take of the shoes and continue to ride at the same level as before? Why do they need to transition? Why?, if shoes do not cause harm or restriction. "

The prevalence of WLD in horses that I encounter on a day to day basis is probably 10% or less, and about 1% where it creates a problem. I see maybe 1 horse every couple of days with it, and I have 2 on my books that have required extensive treatment for it.

Perhaps the horses you encounter are the truly 'shoe sick' ones that need to go barefoot? And with regards to thrush, I find it is more common in horses confined to the stable, such as racehorses, and IMO isnt because they are shod but poorly managed. Again, less than 10% of my horses have thrush.

With regards to the need for a transition period, its because a shod hoof isnt subjected to the same stimuli as an unshod one, and as a result isnt conditioned. Try walking barefoot down the road - I guarantee you will flinch, but do it for long enough and your soles will harden up and it wont be as much of a problem. It has got nothing to do with the hoof being damaged, it is simply unconditioned.

That brings me onto my second point, in response to cptrayes.... You stated that an unshod hoof grows at twice the rate of a shod hoof. While that may be the case for barefoot horses in work, it is not true for paddock kept horses. I trim at several bloodstock studs, and a shetland stud, and they grow no more foot than their shod counterparts.

I agree that barefoot horses in work grow foot quicker, but rather than putting that down to increased blood flow, I put it down to nature simply doing its best to replace whats being worn away. If the stimulus isnt there, ie wear, they wont grow as quick.

And WRT to hoof temperature, I have felt no noticeable difference between shod and unshod paddock horses, although I can tell that barefoot horses have warmer feet. I like your idea of using a laser thermometer to do a little study, and over the next couple of weeks I will do just that. I shall measure the ambient temp, ground temp, and dorsal wall temp of the near fore of all the horses I deal with over the next 2 weeks. I estimate there will be aproximately 60 shod horses, 30 paddock horses and 6 barefoot horses. Perhaps if anyone else comes across a mixture of horses, andcan be bothered, they could do the same?

And finally in response to another comment from JennyHarvey.....

As for the shoes being tight fitting, maybe on the day the shoes or put on. But after a few weeks of wearing them, the toes will grow forward, the heels run forward, the soft tissue atrophy because of reduced blood flow and reduced stimulus. So ideally a horse should be shod every week, or less, to make sure that this doesnt happen. Or else you are constantly trying to bring the foot back to normal. Thats why trimming should be regular too. The more the foot gets out of shape, the more damage can occur and the more out of balance the horse can get. At least if the horse is shoeless, the feet can wear a certain amount. A shod horse cannot. So a shod hoof will just grow forward and distort, causing flaring, cracks and underrun heels.

Again with the claims of reduced blood flow. This is one of the popular claims, and has yet to be substantiated IMO.

I agree that some shod feet do not get the required stimulus to the caudal structures. These feet are often thought to 'need' shoes, when in fact the opposite is true.

Racehorses (at the good yards) get shod every two weeks, because of the reasons you stated. However, not all horses grow feet like that, or are as athletic as that. The vast majority of my shod horses do not show any evidence of distortion, flaring, cracking or underun heels. Some do, but most dont. So I again take offense when it is stated as fact, that shod feet will suffer these problems.

Horses that do exhibit these problems can have the nessesary stimulus added to the shoeing package, using one of the many products availiable to farriers nowadays.....most of which weren't availiable as little as ten years ago.

Sorry for the long winded post. I guess my main point was to highlight the fact that some of the anti-shoes claims aren't proven, and IMO wont be proven.

 

[cptrayes]

Ah Matt there is a definition for barefoot, a term that many people hate. The definition is that a paddock ornament with no shoes is an unshod horse, only a working horse is barefoot. There is a big difference in both the meaning and in the feet!

I'll look forward to your experiment with the pyrometer. If anyone else can try it with a mixed bag of horses they are only a few quid on eBay and real fun - and great for pinpointing heat if your horse has an injury but you aren't quite sure where.

I agree with you that there are many, many horses which can go through life with no apparent ill effects from shoes than a bunch of nail holes. Where I have a problem is that most of those don't need shoes at all, so why have they got them on?

The next problem is how many horses which have a diagnosis of lameness in the foot - navicular, ligament or ddft strain, are sound within weeks of removing their shoes when a major plank of their treatment has been remedial farriery, often at huge expense.

I am pretty sure that you will eventually be proved wrong about the blood supply, but it is nice to read a well reasoned argument.

 

[Jennyharvey]

I buy my tools from a farrier. He knows i am a trimmer, and i often talk to him about my cases and my approaches. I could explain to him the benefits of barefoot for all horses compared to shoeing, but he is always going to think shoeing is more beneficial and that barefoot is not practical. I could explain things till im blue in the face, but it wont get me anywhere. He has spent years learning his trade, and he is probably very good at what he does. I understand his viewpoint, he understands mine.

So there really isnt any point in trying to change a persons opnion if it contradicts what that person has dedicated his life to. I dont try to change his opnion, he doesnt try to change mine.

So im not going to try to change any ones opinions here, or argue about all the scientific facts that may or may not be true.

As you, Mattfranks are a farrier, im not going to try to change your opnions of how the foot works and what is best for horses. You have spent your life studying a different approach and philosophy to hoofcare, so im not going to tell you what you have learnt is incorrect or detrimental. Especially without scientific evidence.
I would also apreciate if you wouldnt say that my statements are incorrect, if you cannot show any scientific studies to support it.

You have learnt your way of dealing with hoof problems, us pro barefooters have our approaches. I think that if we try to convince others of our beliefs if they contradict anothers beliefs then it could just end in a slagging match.

 

[cptrayes]

Jenny can I suggest, and I am not trying to patronise you here but to get a good discussion going, that you need to sprinkle what you write with a liberal dose of "most" "many" and "some". Matt is quite entitled to take offence at the idea that you are saying every horse he shoes will have feet that grow forward when shod. They don't all do it. Many do, but not all. Some grow downwards and some, though with a look around any major livery yard you can see it's not "most", grow perfect looking feet with shoes on.

If anyone wants to test whether their horse has perfect feet in shoes, I suggest you grovel on your hands and knees in the dirt and get your eyes on a direct level with their coronet band. If your horse's front foot has a perfectly straight line from the hair roots to very near the floor, it's fine in shoes. If it has a steeper angle for the first 1/2 inch from the hairline, then I guarantee you that if you took off your horse's shoes, he would grow a completely different looking foot from the one he has while shod.

 

[quirky]

We have a BP who "does" a horse on our yard.

The horse is conformationally challenged in many ways but was sound the majority of the time when it had shoes.
Since it has been barefoot, it is seldom sound, especially after the feet have been trimmed. It has to do a couple of days of box rest after a trim. It does hack but has been told not to go out too often.
I don't think this is the transition phase that I have read about as it has been bare for over a year now.

I know without seeing the horse, it is nigh on impossible to say why but would anybody like to take a punt at explaining why it need to be box rested after a trim and why it can't stay sound?

FWIW, the BP is apparently well known and respected by those into that sort of thing.

 

[cptrayes]

The trimmer is an idiot and should be sacked immediately. No horse should routinely be less sound after a trim. If it is the first time you trim it then you DON't repeat the same trim, only someone lacking brain cells would, surely?

The horse may be too conformationally challenged to manage barefoot. But most likely it is metabolically challenged and may require a complete no-sugar diet which may also mean no grass, at all. It might have mineral imbalances addding to its metabolic issues. It might have Cushings, EPSM, EMS or Insulin Resistance. It might just be better to get some shoes on it, because for sure it shouldn't be getting sore after a trim at all, and after a year it shouldn't be lame without shoes and unable to hack out.

It's not normal. It's DEFINITELY not what most of us would recognise as "barefoot".

 

[Jennyharvey]

A lot of problems we have with their feet is related to the diet. I would want to look at diet and see if anything could be causing this tenderfootedness. Low grade laminitis can be caused by small things in the horses system, like insulin resistance or cushings.
If it were my horse and he went lame after a trim this is what i would look for. I would also get bloods done to rule out anything medical. Maybe try a supplement for gastrc ulcers like gastry x. Ulcers have been shown to have an effect on the foot too. Althoug im not sure of the full scientific analysis of this.
May be worth suggesting to this person to look into these things.

Then i would analyse the trim. Maybe the trimmer is taking away something the horse needs at this stage. Perhaps the horse needs his sole to condition more. If his soles are lowered to the ground by removing excess wall, maybe his soles are too weak. Maybe boots and pads would help to strengthen them.

This is what i would do in this case, but obviously there are so many things that can cause sore feet. Its amatter of really looking into the horse's history and trying to figure out what it means and whats best for the horse. Even if the horse needed boots and pads just to be allowed some freedom after a trim.

But definatly a horse who cannot be let out after a trim would be seriously worrying.
You say he had problems with shoes as well? Then it could be a really deep set problem that may even require radiographs to rule out anything more serious like pedal osteitis.

 

[quirky]

The trimmer is an idiot and should be sacked immediately.

As I said though, he seems to be respected by other equine people around. He's not a cowboy (or doesn't appear to be). I think he trains other BP's as well.
After trimming, he always leaves a sheet of paper with numbers on them. Goobldy dook to me but the owner seems to have been explained what it all means. Trying to say he's not a cut and run merchant.

Owner is actually happy with BP and his trims and how the horse is. He seems to blind her with science and buys whatever he tells her.

To answer Jenny's comment - the horses lameness issues (when shod and now) appears to come from it's back and this has been addressed with regular physio and a treeless saddle. Foot wise, the main issue I would say is that it has a club foot.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Personally, seeing the way this horse is (and was previously), I'd be loathe to let a BP anywhere near mine, which may be doing a disservice to all BP's, but that's the way I feel about it.

 

[cptrayes]

I don't care how qualified he is, if the horse is persistently more unsound after he trims it, and he knows that, and a year has gone by and he continues to trim it the same way, he is an idiot and I would not let him anywhere near a horse of mine. The idea that the the horse should be kept in after a trim is beyond belief. It's this kind of stuff that makes people think barefooters are a bunch of irrational nutters.

And I know the number system you are referring to -a friend of mine was told by her EP that her horse's condition score meant he should be building up to a cautious amount of work. Since the horse was already in really hard work, the condition score appears to mean nothing, especially to the horse. I've read the book that explains the scoring system and a horse of mine who was happily hacking out would have been being walked up and down in hand with pads in its boots. To say it's cautious is an understatement and a half, but it makes owners feel reassured that their trimmer knows what they are doing.

 

[Laura1812]

I agree with everyone about the trimmer - no horse should be left that lame that it has to be box-rested for a few days or whatever!! Shocking!

I did dissect a cadaver once that had these on its front feet....




The saddest thing was that there were screws poking into its frog and horrendous infections there. I assume the frog pad was screwed in after the shoe had been fitted due to the tip of the nails in the frog.

I assume this horse was being treated for navicular, however the navicular bone itself was as clean as a whistle and the tendons looked good too - there were no obvious causes of lamenesses other than really poor soft tissues at the back of the foot and a god awful infection in the frog. By the wear on the shoe you could see that it must have barely bourne weight on the back of the foot at all.

I have always wondered what that horse had been PTS for (I assume because it was likely to be crippled) and that had it been in the right hands it could be having a useful life right now....

 

[amandap]

I'm glad you found the link useful Matt.

Speaking as an owner with no training so only my own research which hasn't been in huge depth I must admit and a good deal of it 'second hand' science ie. interpreted by others, I have a strong feeling that the problems in shoes and inability for some horses to work barefoot is down to a multitude of problems one of which may well be blood flow.
After following Pete Ramey's work and experiences I have gleaned that in general a horses hoof has little chance of developing properly due to the way we restrict movement from birth.
This fits in with the way K.C.La Pierre scores a foot ie. by the development and condition of the internal as well as external structures. This all fell into place for me when I read in K.C.'s book that it takes up to seven years (this depends on breed etc. the same as skeletal maturation) for a foot to develop fully in digital cushion and lateral cartilages. I drew from this that if we a) restrict movement by stabling even part of the time from birth b) never allow foals/young horses to walk on more challanging surfaces c) shoe from an early age etc. etc. then how are these structures to develop properly??
I'm sure the quality of shoeing is a big factor as well as no regular time out of shoes as was the way in the past ie. shoeing for only part of the year.

The barefoot v shod argument is so important for me because it asks big questions about how we manage horses which fit in with my feelings about the way our management affects their behaviours and general wellbeing. For me BF puts the focus back onto listening to what the horse is saying rather than how can we fit the horse into what we want. I have no idea whether shoes will ever be not needed for some horses myself but at least people are being forced to look closer and question which can only be good for the horse surely.

I always recommend Pete Ramey's DVD series 'Under the Horse' as imo a really good thorough explanation of this thinking which is suitable for owners and Professionals. Pretty pricey but worth every cent imo.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/

Apologies for going off on a tangent.

 

[maggiesmum]

Personally, seeing the way this horse is (and was previously), I'd be loathe to let a BP anywhere near mine, which may be doing a disservice to all BP's, but that's the way I feel about it.

Those shoes are shocking, and the length of those screws is pure negligence! I'm not surprised it didn't bear weight on the back of its foot, there were 2 bloody screws sticking into it!

In answer to the above quote - seeing pictures like those and seeing the way some horses are shod, I'd be loathe to let a farrier anywhere near mine, which may be doing a disservice to all farriers but thats the way I feel about it.

 

[Ted's mum]

I am all for barefoot...I had an EP out for my horse today...x

 

[MattFranks]

I agree with everyone about the trimmer - no horse should be left that lame that it has to be box-rested for a few days or whatever!! Shocking!

I did dissect a cadaver once that had these on its front feet....




The saddest thing was that there were screws poking into its frog and horrendous infections there. I assume the frog pad was screwed in after the shoe had been fitted due to the tip of the nails in the frog.

I assume this horse was being treated for navicular, however the navicular bone itself was as clean as a whistle and the tendons looked good too - there were no obvious causes of lamenesses other than really poor soft tissues at the back of the foot and a god awful infection in the frog. By the wear on the shoe you could see that it must have barely bourne weight on the back of the foot at all.

QUOTE]

Hi Laura, that setup is called the EDSS (Equine Digital Support System), and is used for a wide variety of problems, the main one being acute laminitis. It looks as though whoever applied it did a very poor job.... those screws are horrendous And it is normally applied with impression material underneath to dissipate the load evenly.

 

[Kallibear]

I'd be interested to know what you feel poor development (or whatever you want to call it) of the caudal foot actually is.

Whilst you say that most of your horses have good development of these structures (maybe they do), from experience of quite a few of the farrier in this area, I'd guestimate at 60-70% of all horses I've seen have poor heel and frog development. BUT the farriers (and owners) are quite happy with them and don't seen to be doing anything Ain't broke, don't fix it attitude.

I KNOW there are good farriers out there but they seem to be thin on the ground an a large number just don't seem interested and will only make changes if somethings finally gone wrong.

As a farrier I have the ability to provide a complete hoof care service

This is not my experience of various farriers, and the reason there is a place for 'barefoot trimmers'. Every single farrier I've used (6 I think so far) will say 'sure, they'll probably manage without shoes' and not shoe them on request. But the second an issues come up the answer is to put shoes on them, no advice offered alternative things to try before putting shoes on.

 

[intouch]

Some hoofcare theories about function and circulation.
http://horse-care.suite101.com/article.cfm/hoofcare-basics-part-1

 

[Oberon]

I turned to barefoot trimmers after having an apprentice farrier digging into live sole of both front feet right in front of me. He was digging into a natural indentation my draft horse has in both toes. Looking for what? I remember just looking down and seeing pools of blood.

No explanation was offered by the farrier.

After using a trimmer, I was shocked to find my older horse had been suffering from deep sulcus thrush for 13 years. None of the farriers I had used over the years had noted it. In my ignorance, neither had I.

The trimmers I have used (all UKNHCP registered) have been passionate about my horses feet and given me service I have never received from farriers before.

Not meaning to farrier bash but that is what I have found

 

[MattFranks]

Some hoofcare theories about function and circulation.
http://horse-care.suite101.com/article.cfm/hoofcare-basics-part-1

Note the word 'theories', and note that the author has a vested interest in passing that theory along, as she is a trimmer herself. Anyone can write whatever they want and put in on the internet, and there will always be people who want to believe it

Heres another great one, by the same author.....check out the xrays at the bottom lol

http://horse-care.suite101.com/article.cfm/hoofcare-basics-part-2

 

[cptrayes]

Matt if we are going to talk vested interests, then farriers charging £70 to £80 a set, norm around here, have the greatest vested interest of all. Surely you yourself see farriers putting shoes on horses that they must know could manage perfectly well without them? Solid footed cobs, dressage horses going to and from an arena every day?

The trimmer has no vested interest in sharing a theory of hoof dynamics. It doesn't matter what the hoof dynamics are. The inside of the foot could be made of custard and jelly. The only thing that matters is that we have discovered amongst ourselves that there are thousands and thousands of horses being unnecessarily shod. Barefoot trimmers will continue to succeed with horses that farriers (not you, but many) tell them can't cope barefoot, irrespective of what the actually hoof dynamics are, and that success will get them business, not the theories about the custard and jelly.

 

[Laura1812]

The issues that lead me to barefoot were that no matter how much i quizzed my farrier on why my horses feet were the shape they were and no matter how much I asked him to take their toes back a bit he never did - he was a slap and go farrier in my opinion. Had he done a good job I would probably be shod and ignorant today still. I think my story is similar to 1000's across the country. I am unfortunate in where I live too - there are only 3 farriers that visit my area and I had the best of them. I did travel my horses to another farrier (at £70 a set - even though he didnt have to travel to me) for a while but one day he decided unannounced to put rocker toes on on of my horses who had no problems at all - he couldn't even give me a valid reason as to why he did it!!

I have to say though that not all farriers are bad - in fact where my pony has gone on loan there is a very good one - I am seeing him this weekend so I will take a picture of the changes in his feet, but I pulled him out of a loan home because they had let his feet get like this:



He has had his feet sorted out significantly by shoeing alone so I don't doubt it is possible. After pic to follow.

 

[Laura1812]

Heres another great one, by the same author.....check out the xrays at the bottom lol

http://horse-care.suite101.com/article.cfm/hoofcare-basics-part-2

Now you see this is where barefoot is subjective too, because in my opinion the x-rays look better with the shoe on - the pedal bone is at 5 degrees which is where it should be (at 3-5 degrees) from the theory I have been taught and p1,2 and 3 are where they should be. Obviously the horse has a s**te shoeing job but IMO the trim afterwards has lowered to heels too much and left the toe too long. I do think the horse is better off with that trim than those shoes though but I don't think anyone is going to dispute that.

I know some trimming schools want a ground parallel pedal bone though as this is what has been studied in wild horses mainly in the states.

 

[Laura1812]

Hi Laura, that setup is called the EDSS (Equine Digital Support System), and is used for a wide variety of problems, the main one being acute laminitis. It looks as though whoever applied it did a very poor job.... those screws are horrendous And it is normally applied with impression material underneath to dissipate the load evenly.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. There was impression material in the foot but it stank so badly it got binned!

Is it usual to put the screws in after the shoe has been fitted? These look to be normal wood screws!

 

[intouch]

Note the word 'theories', and note that the author has a vested interest in passing that theory along, as she is a trimmer herself. Anyone can write whatever they want and put in on the internet, and there will always be people who want to believe it

Heres another great one, by the same author.....check out the xrays at the bottom lol

http://horse-care.suite101.com/article.cfm/hoofcare-basics-part-2

I think she bases her theories on Pollitt's research
http://www.laminitisresearch.org/chrispollitt_publications1.htm

 

[amandap]

I know some trimming schools want a ground parallel pedal bone though as this is what has been studied in wild horses mainly in the states.

Pete Ramey I understand now believes the coffin bone is only ground parallel on full load (in movement) because observations of the really sound horses have had a coffin bone at ?angle (can't remember the exact angle) when standing. Just mentioning this as he uses the 'wild' model.

 

[cptrayes]

I do understand that this is not possible for people with clients, or some owners, but it wouldn't occur to me to try to tell my horses where to put their pedal bones.

In hard work, I never trim heel and the frog is always ground bearing, so they are as low as they can get. I wonder if there is no such thing as a "correct" angle. You couldn't, for example, specify a "correct" pelvis tilt for a human female if you compare a typical English pear, French sylph and indigenous African. Yet all those women are "sound" I just wonder if the same is not true of horses?

 

[Laura1812]

Pete Ramey I understand now believes the coffin bone is only ground parallel on full load (in movement) because observations of the really sound horses have had a coffin bone at ?angle (can't remember the exact angle) when standing. Just mentioning this as he uses the 'wild' model.

Thats interesting - thanks for that - is it 3-5 degrees?

 

[amandap]

I do understand that this is not possible for people with clients, or some owners, but it wouldn't occur to me to try to tell my horses where to put their pedal bones.

I do understand that this is not possible for people with clients, or some owners, but it wouldn't occur to me to try to tell my horses where to put their pedal bones.

Lol! I'm sure you are right but I would expect there to be a degree of tilt considered within 'normal' limits for race and environmental/ locomotive influences even in human pelvis angles.

I think 3-5% rings a bell for me thanks Laura. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[rupertsmum]

The prevalence of WLD in horses that I encounter on a day to day basis is probably 10% or less, and about 1% where it creates a problem. I see maybe 1 horse every couple of days with it, and I have 2 on my books that have required extensive treatment for it.

in response to this, bear with me people who have read this before, but my TB was diagnosed with navicular after being lame for a couple of weeks.

my vet took his shoes off to Xray him and previous to that my boy was regularly seen by the farrier-every 6 weeks.

after going against my vets advice i got hold of an AEP who after looking at his feet for the first time said that he had very bad WLD! why had nobody recognised this before?

My AEP gave me some 'cleantrax solution' an antifungal preparation that kills the infection after soaking his foot in it. the next day he trotted sound!

bearing in mind that if this WLD had been diagnosed pre Xray and had been treated, then we never have known about the navicular and we would have carrried on regardless!








.

 

[MattFranks]

Now you see this is where barefoot is subjective too, because in my opinion the x-rays look better with the shoe on - the pedal bone is at 5 degrees which is where it should be (at 3-5 degrees) from the theory I have been taught and p1,2 and 3 are where they should be. Obviously the horse has a s**te shoeing job but IMO the trim afterwards has lowered to heels too much and left the toe too long. I do think the horse is better off with that trim than those shoes though but I don't think anyone is going to dispute that.

I know some trimming schools want a ground parallel pedal bone though as this is what has been studied in wild horses mainly in the states.

I too look to get a positive palmer angle, and find it hard to understand why destroying a horses arch is considered ideal by some. The number of high limb lamenesses that are diagnosed which appear to be caused by a broken back phalangeal allignment are astounding, especially in hind limbs.

This makes me wonder though.... two schools of thought, KC and Jackson/Ramey, two ideal models, both very different from each other....which one is better than the other? How is an owner supposed to decide which path to take. They cant both be right. If it didnt matter what angle the pedal bone was at, then surely it wouldnt matter at all about dorsopalmer balance.

And another question I have, to whoever wants to answer it... If you look on the homepage for www.hoofrehab.com and go about half way down, there are two xrays of a laminitic.

What is the red line supposed to represent? On one xray it is above the coronary band, and below it on another. Is the intention to trick the viewer into thinking the horse had sunk within its hoof capsule prior to treatment? You can clearly see the shadow of the coronary band, and the back of the pastern, and the bones are in exactly the same place in both.

I would of expected to make that progress in a lot less than 7 months.

 

[Laura1812]

I too look to get a positive palmer angle, and find it hard to understand why destroying a horses arch is considered ideal by some. The number of high limb lamenesses that are diagnosed which appear to be caused by a broken back phalangeal allignment are astounding, especially in hind limbs.

This makes me wonder though.... two schools of thought, KC and Jackson/Ramey, two ideal models, both very different from each other....which one is better than the other? How is an owner supposed to decide which path to take. They cant both be right. If it didnt matter what angle the pedal bone was at, then surely it wouldnt matter at all about dorsopalmer balance.

Its not just the dorsal/palmar balance - surely medial/lateral wouldn't matter either?

I chose KC after a lot of reading because it is based on the domestic horse and it's based on science where it exists, how other horse owners chose, I don't know. I still think that a good farrier is better than a bad trimmer any day.

I'm just off to have a look at the hoof rehab site now....