Another Barefoot Thread...

[Ambers Echo]

Sorry I know there has been a few of these but none quite answer my question!

So the farrier is coming tomorrow for a routine visit. I plan to ask him to take Jenny's fronts off. She is unshod behind and her feet look great. She is shod in front and has lost a shoe, taking a big chunk of hoof with it. But she is fully sound on it, even on rough stony ground. Is it ok to go ahead with a chunk missing?

My farrier has no objection to barefoot but he is not a barefoot specialist either. His view was just 'some horses cope, some don't, try it and see'. Seems sensible to me but having read the Barefoot Performance book they seem to suggest you need someone with a special interest in barefoot to maximise the chances the horse's hoof will adapt quickly and successfully. Thoughts on that? Plus anything I should be asking him to do/not do in terms of trim?


I'll take Amber's shoes off next time as I am doing Kelsall BE in a couple of weeks and don't want to change anything before then. And I'm not touching Ginny yet as we are in the middle of a treatment plan that is going in the right direction. But I am looking forward to seeing how things go with Jenny.

 

[Identityincrisis]

There are an awful lot of do's & don'ts, some relevant to most horses, some not so much.

With regards to your farrier I would actively discourage trimming of the sole and frog, many farriers do this to 'neaten things up' but it is quite detrimental to a barefoot horse.

Ensure you keep on top of thrush, I treat for it even when it isn't present as that is also hugely detrimental to horses being comfortable. Try to avoid iodene etc for thrush and use a gentler method like apple cider vinegar

 

[Nudibranch]

Iodine is not damaging to tissues. It's drying (which is a bonus for thrushy feet). It's what surgeons swab you with before cutting into the skin. It's very effective for thrush.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

It's a big subject but it basically boils down to just a few key things. The two main ones are diet and exercise. Eliminate as much sugar as you can in the diet including grass and get the horse moving, even if this means using boots and pads until the hoof is conditioned sufficiently to go barefoot. Some horses transition out of shoes very easily and some need months. I no longer trim my horses but I know some people like to but if you can do enough roadwork in particular, then trimming by a professional becomes less important and the hoof will self trim. Letting the foot find its own balance and equilibrium is really important versus trying to force what you believe is a balanced looking hoof onto the horse.

 

[hollyandivy123]

i have to admit for thrush i use sheep foot spray, footmaster. this is a preventative once a month or so and touch wood works well, normal done after trim or shoeing.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

If your horse is sound and comfortable despite the chunk missing then yes its fine to go ahead. When you go barefoot, you have to re-condition your view of what a foot should look like because often you will have a few small cracks and chips initially.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Heel first landing is key. Once you've cracked this, you've reached the holy grail of a functional hoof!

Red horse products are great for thrush. Treat for thrush, even if you don't think your horse has it. It's one of the main things that prevents a horse from landing heel first.

 

[Gloi]

The hoof could well all break back to the nailholes in the first couple of weeks. Don't worry too much about it , sound hoof will be growing down behind it. I feed pro hoof from progressive earth and mine has excellent feet which self trim from the roadwork we do. I give the frogs an occasional spray with sheep foot rot spray too

 

[DabDab]

A specialist barefoot farrier/trimmer isn't really necessary no, just as long as your farrier isn't the type to hack the hoof back as if putting a shoe on. But as above, you might find that you don't actually need someone to come out to trim, and may just find it easier to buy a rasp to round off and sharp edges.

Chunks of hoof missing aren't usually a problem as long as the horse is comfortable.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks everyone. The deed is done and Jenny is now barefoot. Fingers crossed it all goes well. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Reacher]

Seems sensible to me but having read the Barefoot Performance bookk they seem to suggest you need someone with a special interest in barefoot to maximise the chances the horse's hoof will adapt quickly and successfully. Thoughts on that? Plus anything I should be asking him to do/not do in terms of trim?
.

My personal (limited) experience is it depends on the hooves you have in-front if you and whether your farrier is good at balancing their feet.
I used a farrier to trim my (now retired) ex-race horse for several years. She had underrun flat feet with peculiar flaring and weak digital cushion. Feet didn’t improve.
Farrier also took shoes off and trimmed my current riding horse (welsh x) who is blessed with good hoof genetics coming out of shoes with reasonable concavity. Feet were a bit low at the heels. One front foot had a bit of a funny flare. I ended up changing to a trimmer (having first gone in a weekend course by her).
The TB’s feet have improved, she is slowly developing some concavity and the digital cushion is improving. The strange flaring is improving.
Welsh X’s feet have regained heel (trimmer said it needed trimming last week!) and the funny flare is improving.
So to sum up my ramble I’d say a good farrier is preferential to a bad trimmer and vice versa.
I’d recommend learning as much as you can about hooves, know the difference between a weak hoof and a strong functional one, go on a trimmers course if you can, even if you stay with your farrier.
PS there seem to be 1 schools of thought - 1) the trimming school and 2) the self trimming school.
As my trimmer gets good results I stay with the former (though she would not remove flare developed to support a conformational issue for example). Many people on here however get good results with the latter.
Good luck.

 

[Queen Dotty]

Good luck taking your horses barefoot. My horse has now been barefoot for 4 months and hasn’t been trimmed at all. His feet have gone through a remarkable change. The fronts initially looked a complete mess and cracked right down to the nail holes. But now time has passed, the new hoof wall is growing down and they are stronger than ever. I can see a change in the tightness of his hoofwall with his new diet and can’t wait until this grows down completely.

I am so pleased I took his shoes off, it has been one of the best things I have done for him.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks for all the replies.

She is fine on the tarmac road and on a surface and in the field. But footy picking her way over the stones to her field. Is that ok? I am already getting 'she needs shoes on' comments! I can buy boots but it is literally 20 yards to the field.

 

[tallyho!]

Yeah I think I'd agree that if you want the best chance, a specialist is your best bet. You wouldn't go to a gents barbers for a ladies cut colour and style right?

However, saying that, some horses just cope barefoot from day 1 so unless you run into trouble stick with your farrier and see how it goes?

 

[DabDab]

Thanks for all the replies.

She is fine on the tarmac road and on a surface and in the field. But footy picking her way over the stones to her field. Is that ok? I am already getting 'she needs shoes on' comments! I can buy boots but it is literally 20 yards to the field.

I'd just let her pick her way across them unless she's really distressed by it. Her feet will gradually condition. Though obviously if you're wanting to go on any stoney hacks you'd be best to get some boots

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks that is reassuring.

She's not distressed - just cautious. I had a good look at back vs front feet qwhen the fronts came off. The frog and digital cushions on the front are thin, dry, small. On the back (where she has always been barefoot) they are much fatter, plumper, softer. I can really see how the design of the hoof makes sense as a cushioning surface and how shoes have prevented them working properly. I can't believe no-one has ever pointed this out to me before or that it never occurred to me myself. I always assumed some horses have 'good feet' and can be barefoot and some have 'bad feet' and can't. Not that feet become bad feet by using shoes!

 

[tallyho!]

Thanks that is reassuring.

She's not distressed - just cautious. I had a good look at back vs front feet qwhen the fronts came off. The frog and digital cushions on the front are thin, dry, small. On the back (where she has always been barefoot) they are much fatter, plumper, softer. I can really see how the design of the hoof makes sense as a cushioning surface and how shoes have prevented them working properly. I can't believe no-one has ever pointed this out to me before or that it never occurred to me myself. I always assumed some horses have 'good feet' and can be barefoot and some have 'bad feet' and can't. Not that feet become bad feet by using shoes!

Do get boots to begin with or else you will put yourself back a bit when the bruises to the still thin soles... if you go too hoof boutique or the hundreds of barefoot forums on facebook you might pick up a good pair second hand.

 

[Queen Dotty]

I would look at taking her off grass completely for a week or so, just because this will tell you if the cause of her being footsore is due to the sugar in the grass.

Many horses cannot cope with being barefoot simply because they have too much sugar in their diet, and much of this sugar will come from grass, especially during the autumn flush we are having.

 

[tallyho!]

Oh and IF you want to find a trimmer please find one that has been trained by the only LANTRA approved course by EPAUK. Go in their website to search for a qualified podiatrist near you.

 

[SEL]

Mine has never had shoes, gets minimal grass due to her PSSM and will still be cautious over stones. She's got good feet according to her trimmer so I think it's just a case of slowing down because she can feel them rather than soreness

 

[spookypony]

Mine has never had shoes, gets minimal grass due to her PSSM and will still be cautious over stones. She's got good feet according to her trimmer so I think it's just a case of slowing down because she can feel them rather than soreness

I agree, sometimes it seems to be just the improved proprioception!

Don't beat yourself up if you do need to use boots for stonier/longer rides. Not everyone is in a position to perfect the management of the horse to a point where the horse can be completely comfortable over all terrain at all speeds, completely bare. For example, up here, fields are soft and can turn into mud baths over the winter, while the tracks we expect to ride them over are granite and often very stony indeed. In theory, a carefully managed diet and a perfectly calculated hoof-conditioning exercise regime should make it possible to go bare all the time even here, but in practice, a busy work schedule and land management restrictions prevent this. So we boot if we want all-terrain distance and speed.

A forgiving boot (in terms of size) which is easy to put on, on the cheaper side, and readily available used on Facebook groups is the Cavallo Simple. I find them clunky and quick to wear through, but my mare came with these on her hinds (was shod in front when I got her). After taking her shoes off, I transferred the Cavallos to the fronts, where they have caused precisely zero trouble in 5 years, so I'm not messing with what works. I did try Renegades (Classic and Viper) on the fronts, but though ostensibly fitting, one kept coming off at speed, so I returned to the Cavallos. They are a bit more slidy on soft going than the Renegades, though.

On her hinds, I use my preferred boot, the Renegade Viper (or Classic), which is far more grippy and sporty than the Cavallo. They also have caused no trouble back there, and stay on perfectly (even though they were the Spooky Pony's boots: they, extremely fortuitously, take the same size of boot, which is excellent, because I'd just bought him a new pair when he was injured last year!). If Renegades work for your horse, they are an excellent boot for sport performance, being more forgiving in fit and easier to get on and off than the Easyboot Glove (although that is a bit more rubbery, which I would prefer).

My mare's full brother has the same problem with Renegades on the fronts as she does. We think it's to do with their upright Lipi shoulder build. Whatever the case, finding the right make and size of boot can be a bit of faff, but once you are sorted, you are flying! Fortunately, there are several good professionals out there in the UK to help you find the right solution.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Thanks for all the advice. She is more comfortable already and is totally fine on tarmac and surfaces. Just a little cautious on the stony track. I will investigate boot options.