another bit post, what is the difference?

The balding is a loose ring gag, which means the ring can turn a complete 360 degrees, whereas the NS Universals are semi fixed, insofar as they can only turn 180 degrees.
I would assume the action of the balding is less severe as the rings on the bit can move more and so soften the pressure in the mouth more easily, however normally larger rings= stronger gag so I imagine the strength of these two bits is pretty similar...
I will stand to be corrected though, as I have not used either
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In my experience, having used a balding, the action tended to be more that of raising the bit in the horse's month (SMILE!) when you took a stronger contact. As the rings are loose, the cheeks slide through effectively making the cheekpieces shorter, if that makes sense - meaning there was less poll action than you would get with say, Cheltenham gag. (ETA, I think I mean there was less leverage?
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Whatever, the bit moves upwards in the mouth, without turning the mouthpiece round).


I'm no expert on bevals, but I would imagine that you get a mild poll pressure from it. Similarly from the Univeral, probably with some lifting action as well, I think!

The Enlightened Bitting part of the NS site is quite good to explain different mouthpieces and bits.
 
I don't think it is fixed though, if you look at it it's design is not eggbutt but loost ring style, it also is not described as a 'universal' also the website has a totally different section for eggbutts and this is a link to their page that also has 'gags' on. That is why I am confused, I can't see the bit that Millipops linked me to on this website, but this is very similar, it has the lozenge and the copper mix, and it appears to be loose. The only major difference is that the (hole) bits on the loose rings are at different angles (if that makes sense) It looks to me as if both designs are loose, just that this second style diesn't rotate/spin quite as much.

But I may be completely wrong, have never used either before.
 
I think the actions would be quite different though. With the beval, afaik you attach the cheekpieces to the top section of the ring, and your reins to one of the bottom parts. The bit doesn't slide up the cheekpieces at all so will be fairly still in the mouth (although the mouthpiece may be raised slightly when you engage the gag action. )

With the balding, your cheekpieces effectively go through both top and bottom rings so when you take up a contact, the tendency is for the bit to slide upwards, raising the bit in the horse’s mouth.

Does that make sense?
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cheers, I will have a peek, I just don't want to go abd buy one only to find I should hav got the other!

Very confused
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Well perhaps you need to look at it from the other point of view - what do you want to achieve with the bit? Do you need to bring head down/up/enhance steering/etc etc... then maybe one would be more sensible than the other.
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From my experience the two bits are quite different. The beval has a fairly fixed action, the rings can slide a bit but you attach the cheek pieces to the top loop and the reins to the bottom. It helps bring the horses head in and is often used on show ponies to hold them in an outline that their riders might not be able to obtain themselves.

The balding bit (which i normally call a cheltenham gag/ english snaffle etc (I am sure they are the same?) ) This is the sort of bit you would use on a strong horse that doesn't respond to more 'standard' strong bits like dutch gags, pelhams etc. You need special cheekpieces for it that are long and thin (either rolled leather or rope/nylon generally), these go through the top ring and down through the bottom aswell and have a ring on the end to stop them slipping back through. The reins attach to this ring. When you pull on the reins the effect is to raise the bit in the horses mouth which makes it hard for the horse to lean on the bit and so the horse should stop. This can be quite a severe action (generally used on very strong horses) and I have seen horses with badly rubbed/sore corners of the mouth as a result. Really this bit should be used with two reins, the other just put on the loose ring like a normal rein would be so that the stronger gag action is only used when nessecary. So which bit you need depends on what you are trying to achieve, hope this helps!
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From the picture I would say that the balding is what used to be called a rope gag or cheltenham gag. I think it is the only 'true' gag as the sliding/lifiting effect in the horse's mouth is unlimited. It has a head raising effect I think as it lifts the bit up high rather than putting pressure on the poll.

the cheek pieces run through the bit to the reins. Traditional Cheltenham gags are supposed to be used with two reins, one on the regular snaffle and one on the sliding/rope bit. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/cheltenham-gag-wit...93%3A1|294%3A25

The other gag will have less of a lifting effect but more of a leaverage/poll pressure effect. It is a more 'modern' style of gag similiar in effect to the continetal gags (also known as bubble bits). You could theoretically use a curb with these bits if you wished as they will twist and lift in the mouth.

Just my understanding.
 
Just realised, cheltenhams have fixed/eggbutt cheeks, baldings have loose ring type cheeks. So Balding would be a less direct version of the cheltenham.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Just realised, cheltenhams have fixed/eggbutt cheeks, baldings have loose ring type cheeks. So Balding would be a less direct version of the cheltenham.

[/ QUOTE ]

OH yeah so it is [smacks self on forehead]. I just assumed Balding was a fancy new name for a Cheltenham the NS made up so they could patent it or something LOL
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Teach me not to look closely at the pictures in future
 
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