Another bitting question - but I'm stuck - sorry

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suzi

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Apologies, yet another what bit question . . .

New horse - was ridden by old owner in a fulmer and a grakle noseband. I didn't feel he was comfortable in it and I also want to do some dressage with him so (after lots of testing) have swapped him to a loose ring, sweet iron snaffle with a lozenge which he seems happier in. Have switched the grakle to a flash but TBH I'm not sure he needs the flash now as he's not opening his mouth with the new bit. I'm hoping that's our dressage sorted.

It's the jumping we're a bit stuck on. He can be very strong - really gets the bit between his teeth and goes BUT he's very sensitive in his mouth. He's returning from work after a few weeks off but is still very fit and excitable so although we are doing exercises to try and get him listening and not rushing, there are times when I still have very little control.

When he goes he 'locks on' to a fence and takes a high head carriage. If I have too strong a contact the head carriage gets higher and he gets faster - I now have a strap and just give him a looser rein if he goes as don't want to upset his mouth and make him worse.

I'm going to try hiring bits as I want to make sure I get the right one but have no idea where to start. He's very sensitive about his mouth so I want to make sure he's comfortable but I'm not sure what to look for in his mouth and how to interpret that into what bits to try . . .

Ideas please and apologies for length of post - hadn't realised I was going to type that much!
 
Sounds to me like a combination of schooling and excitement.
What would he do it you stopped him dead before a jump. So He doesn't know weather he is jumping or not. Yes I know its unorthadox but I know a mare who was like this and the owner just stopped her dead before a jump as there was no way the mare was going to start running out or refusing - it wasn't in her nature!

Secondly, how about something he can't get hold of like a waterford? He can't lean on that so you may be able to have a bit more control on that front.

Thirdly, after a post on here on Standing martingales, perhaps you should look it up? People said they used them for horses that stargazed before a jump! I will try and find the thread.. Hope this helps.
 
my mare used to get very fast and strong towards jumps with high head carriage. i rode her in a french link snaffle for a while but i didn't have any breaks, french link gag didn't work, she was horrible in it, would not listen at all. now we have a happy mounth 3 ring dutch gag and she loves it! i have breaks when i need them but the mouthpiece is soft and she loves playing with the roller in the middle, also likes to apple flavour :) hope this helps!

we have one exactly like this one :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HAPPY-MOUTH-3...Horse_Wear_Equipment&var=&hash=item72171946bd
 
Good suggestions - I'll discuss with instructor. We're certainly hoping he will improve with schooling - it's more of a case of needing something to keep control so that we can do the schooling properly . . .if that makes sense?
 
my tb gets very strong and similar locking on thing... typical ex racer but he doesnt know any better so didnt want to gob him...what about going back to the grackle for sj? My boy sticks his head up, drops his back end( literally sits on the floor) and launches forward and think a fluffy noseband is the answer... no gobbing and he has to keep his head down so doesnt drop back and then doesnt p**s off...
 
Damnation said:
Sounds to me like a combination of schooling and excitement.
What would he do it you stopped him dead before a jump. So He doesn't know weather he is jumping or not. Yes I know its unorthadox but I know a mare who was like this and the owner just stopped her dead before a jump as there was no way the mare was going to start running out or refusing - it wasn't in her nature!
Click to expand...

This is not a good road to go down. I once had a lovely horse that I had taught to jump and he had never ever stopped. Horse went on an eventing course run by an Olympic rider who decided that because the horse was fussing going into the jump that he was rushing so needed to be taught not to. She made the rider stop him dead in front of a jump in the middle of the grid. Result one horse who now knows that he can stop - end of no stopping. Reason for the behaviour rider trying to fiddle the horse onto the bit, he was getting cross with having his mouth messed around with.

It is not a good exercise - more conventional circling in front till accepting, relaxed and quiet then being allowed to jump is the best and most successful way. Rushing, being strong going into a fence has underlying reasons - generally confidence issues.
 
Evelyn said:
This is not a good road to go down. I once had a lovely horse that I had taught to jump and he had never ever stopped. Horse went on an eventing course run by an Olympic rider who decided that because the horse was fussing going into the jump that he was rushing so needed to be taught not to. She made the rider stop him dead in front of a jump in the middle of the grid. Result one horse who now knows that he can stop - end of no stopping. Reason for the behaviour rider trying to fiddle the horse onto the bit, he was getting cross with having his mouth messed around with.

It is not a good exercise - more conventional circling in front till accepting, relaxed and quiet then being allowed to jump is the best and most successful way. Rushing, being strong going into a fence has underlying reasons - generally confidence issues.
Click to expand...

As I said, it is unorthadox but it worked with this mare who is now eventing to a decent standard. Doesn't work for everybody though.
 
hmmmm... My teacher is an olymic event rider who taught me the same! however worked a treat for and have gone from a wild and untrained racehore to a mannerly and responsive jumper... Granted this wouldnt work for many and i would have been strongly anti i cat complain as is the only thing that has left me in control(and my horse hasnt stopped or run out)... may just have a good boy though... : )
 
I think what you are doing is a good start. To me, training is always the answer.
Can you trot into the jump? I always like to teach a horse to stay in trot when jumping. This way they learn that jumping isnt anything to get to excited about. Plus its easier to stay in control.

Lots of circling around and befor the jump, and when she is settled in a nice rythm, allow her to jump. after the jump, bring her right back to a steady trot, circling after the jump as well. Keep the sessions short too, the more you jump, the more worked up she might be. Just a handful of jumps. Concentrate more on steady rythm than the jumps.

What can also work is changing pace riding up to a jump. Maybe try trotting up to a small cross pole, ask for a walk, and walk over the jump. This isnt normally too hard. Then when she is quiet and remains calm in trot, try it in canter. Canter toward the jump, either on a straight line or off a circle, and bring her back to a trot for the jump. This should keep her listening to you, rather than just concentrating on getting over the jump. Also, when circling, if you go to jump and she rushes off, keep her on the circle instead of letting her over the jump. Bring her right back down again till she settles, and only jump when she is steady.

I did this with an ex eventing pony, who when saw a jump, there was no stopping her.
I took her right back to basics, lots of circling, only letting her jump when steady. Short sessions so she didnt get worked up. Transisions going into the jump to make sure she was with me, instead of just looking to the jump. All done in a rope halter. Now i can jump her with a string round her neck, no halter or bridle, just string. We also teach jumping with her, but before i wouldnt have let anyone ride her.
Its up to yourself if u feel a stronger bit is needed, but i think that with the correct training, time and patience, it hopefully wont be needed. Sorry for the long answer, hope it helps somewhat.
 
Thanks for the responses - sorry I've not replied - computer has not allowed me on the internet all weekend!

I think the change of pace thing might work trot, walk, walk over jump, trot etc. I just want to be able to make the transitions easily without messing him about . .

Tricky little horse!

On the plus side he had a good flatwork lesson on Saturday and we're going to try some jumping schooling this weekend.

I think I'll just have to try lots of things and see what works out . . . and hope I can find enough brakes to actually do the schooling.

He's not quite 7 yet so still got time to learn.
 
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