Another Colic attack

[seabiscuit]

Poor Forrest was colicking all evening yesterday, the vet had to come out twice and we were just on the verge of taking him to hospital at 9pm when he suddenly seemed better. He is OK now but quiet and grumpy.It was spasmodic colic again- with very gassy and tense guts.

He had been doing the most foul smelling droppings all week and I just knew that this was coming.His stable stunk like a room of rotting fish in the mornings. It wasnt diarrhea as such- but a funny consistency.

So come Monday, the vets had better give me some answers!A lot of people have been saying, 'is he Irish'? and yes he is Irish, turns out that they dont really bother with worming Irish racehorses very often and they often come over to the UK with worm damage...

I know that Forrest is home bred by an old couple who just have a few broodmares,& they didnt sound like the types that would be scrupoulous about things like worming...his breeder said 'oh he likes to sleep' as though it was quite normal! he was 'always lying down, sleeping and getting cast when he was a yearling' !

So I guess whatever digestion problems he has he has had since a baby

Have also contacted another animal healer/communicator and I am waiting with bated breath for her reply....she is very very good, the only good person I can find but she has been ill, so I am PRAYING that she will get back to me soon as the vets just dont seem to have much of an idea of what is going on....

 

[sleepingdragon10]

Poor boy!! Fancy his breeders thinking his behaviour was 'normal'!?!?!
Hope the vets do give you some clue as to what's going on, sounds like the poor love has had these problems for most of his life

Bethxx

 

[H's mum]

Oh SB - I'm so sorry to hear this - poor Forrest - you seemed to have it under control - Unfortunately this warm/wet/warm/wet weather seems to bring on colics - we've been inundated with calls/enquiries this week from people having exactly the same problems

I really do feel for you both - it's so horrid!

Edited to say - have you restricted his grass intake?
The ONLY way we can stop H's colicking is by minimising her time at grass - at this time of year she can only go out on a bald paddock for a few hours - if she went out onto a grassy field she'd be down by teatime

Kate x

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you Beth-

he is only 5 yrs though, so at least he hasnt been having problems for a huge number of years!

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you Kate- the vet did say that too, that it was the strange weather bringing the colic on....causing funny changes in the grass...BUT there is hardly any grass in his paddock, ( which is about half an acre!!) so could it really be the grass? But anyway he now only goes out for an hour or so a day-...

Or maybe its just the weather on its own?

thats really interesting though that youve had so many calls from people with the same problems.....would they happen to be Irish horses too?! Lol!

I can completly understand how you must have felt when you went through all those severe colics with H-I was distraught.Can't bear the thought of another colic attack now!

 

[sleepingdragon10]

Well atleast that's something, although I guess it's cold comfort for you right now

I guess the problem with him having a heavy worm burden is that it has a cummulative effect over time, but as you say, he's young so hopefully once he gets over this initial phase he should be OK

Certainly hope so

Bethxx

 

[henryhorn]

Often the foul smel indicates either a bacterial infection or the balance of good gut bugs isn't right.
I assume you have tried pink powders?
I have given our horses acidophilus in human capsules on occasions, it sorts the dogs making smells out within hours too.
Natural yoghurt does the same trick.
I would try and get his gut balanced again for starters.

 

[S_N]

I think he is already on Coligone and a few other things......

 

[S_N]

Oh hunny - HUGE hugs!! Not nice for him or you! You are doing everything you can do and more than some owners would do too!!!

B has been a little bit like this since just before moving yards! Thankfully I had my Coligone at the ready and it's REALLY sorted her out! She is also on Pink Powder and a yeast supplement.

 

[Maesfen]

In the mists of time, I used to look after a lot of newly shipped Irish horses so can sympathise with what you're going through with him but in those days, people were prepared to give them a lot more time than they are now (not casting aspersions on yourself but talking about people in general).
We always had to give them six months at the least to acclimatize to our grazing/feeds and regime; it was no use expecting it to go out and look and feel fantastic until the acclimatization was over; it wasn't even fair to expect it either.
I don't know how long he's been over here but that could well be the case with him; not only does his gut needs time to adapt especially as he is still a youngster, but also his mind too; it's all new to him; a bit like you going to India and having to deal with their different food but still be expected to work; I know I couldn't! Everyone needs time to adapt. It is quite possible that he hasn't seen a wormer but then again, I would have queried that remark; even over in Ireland, the word is getting through, even to the small breeders! Although it's The Emerald Isle, they're grazing conditions are quite different to ours, some is the best, other is quite poor but on the whole it is full of minerals, one of the reasons that Irish horses usually have good bone.
Have you tried him on a balancer like BC or TS, maybe even Coligone which should all ensure a calm stomach which is always a good place to start (after you have wormed and taken a count too which should tell you what you've got to deal with.) Of course, years ago, none of these things had been invented and we had to use straights with possibly Limestone Flour, linseed, Guinness, cod liver oil but our mainstay was Kossolian (by Day Son & Hewitt) and also good quality hay; haylage hadn't been invented then. Luckily, Kossolian is still around and I still use it without fail for my mares the winter before foaling!

Sounds a very simple thing but you'd be surprised what a difference you will see if you can give him a bit of time too.
Will love to hear how he's getting on!

Is there any chance it could be similar to sand colic? Leahurst have seen a vast number of cases this year, especially from horses kept on bare paddocks for one reason or another and not all have had successful outcomes I'm afraid, so is there any chance you could move him to a better cropped field just in case?.

 

[seabiscuit]

Funny that is what I thought about the bacterial infection- but the vet hasnt even suggested it!!

Another animal communicator/healer said that he had an infection too. I will ring up the vet on Monday and make sure that she does some more tests, I think she was planning on taking blood from him tomorrow anyway.(they cant do that at weekends as labs arent open)

He has been on pink powder on and off since Ive had him- he was having more in the last week...so it wasnt helping really-so Vet left me with a very very expensive probiotic yesterday- called pro balance which seems to have about 15 different 'lactobillus' bacteria in it,the same company who make this probiotic are also analysing his poo for the bacteria population but it has taken them a whole week.

I will try syringing some yoghurt down him too !

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you SN- the Coligone is great, it really helps F too! as he doesnt crib at all when he is having it. I have no doubt his tummy would be feeling a lot more windy and acid-y if he didnt have it.

Interesting that your B has had a bit of a tummy.....must be something in the atmo at the momment!

 

[seabiscuit]

He came over from Ireland as a 2 year old- and was in training for 2 years up in Yorkshire with Mark Johnston before I got him last October. Even so I do understand what you are saying about giving him time to acclimatise and I will certainly bear that in mind if I ever get a horse that is coming direct from Ireland or any other country!

Even though he has been in the same country for the last 2 ish years he has still not been out of training all that long and it is probably still a shock for him being out of a racehorse environment.

What is Kassolian? Have never heard of it! He has been on Coligone and Pink Powders. I did have him on Top Spec once, didnt do to badly on it, but I took him off it as I wanted him to have a diet of completley natural and un-processed foods ( he has grass nuts, alflalfa, linseed and seaweed and ad lib hay) and I think he has been better on this diet...up until now that is!

Sand Colic- do you mean earth as well??

Could be a possibility as I have seen him pulling up clumps of grass with lumps of earth attached- he did spit/shake the earth out but that is a sure possibility that he could have ingested some...but wouldnt they have to take in huge quantities to get colic?no other fields around me to use, perhaps at this rate I will have to T/O with a muzzle on?!

 

[seabiscuit]

Sorry off topic here Pat- but I saw a Loch Irish X Karinga Bay yearling for sale at the next Doncaster sales, is this one of yours?

 

[henryhorn]

Kossolian was very popular a while back and we used it a lot, don't really know why we stopped, probably because new things appeared on the market. from what I remember it's a general blood tonic that smells of aniseed and promotes a super bloom on the coat amongst other things. It was good for scurfy coats and dull looking horses who you couldn't quite put your finger on why they didn't thrive.
If you have seen him with clods of earth that sounds as if it may be the culprit, but unless we get some rain soon I don't know how you make the grass grow!
If he is on a good probiotic I would think that should cover any bad bacteria, I do hope his tum settles down, you must feel so worried every time it happens.

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you HH- this Kassolian sounds super I will have a hunt for it- even when F hasnt been colicking he has never been 'quite right'.

I pray that things will be simply fixed with the probiotic!

 

[PeterNatt]

If you have not already done so since this last colic attack I would get a worm count taken and also a blood test to determine the presence of any emerging encysted redworm. I would also be tempted to ask your vet to refer him to one of the specialist equine practices in Newmarket to find out exactly what is wrong with him.

 

[Maesfen]

Hi! The Loch Irish x Karinga Bay was the year before I was given her! She'd also had a Double Eclipse, an Overbury (sold to Ireland for racing) a Spadoum and the KB. Think the KB was given to the grand children of the owner but has obviously been cashed in! After that line of TBs she had to come down to earth and go to a coloured!!

Sorry, my mistake, I thought he was a new import! Have you thought about asking MJ about the horse; perhaps he had a dodgy constitution even back then? Some horses, like people are born with problems through nobody's fault, just another cross for us to bear; do hope you can get him sorted.

I think sand/soil will amount to the same thing but they do have to take in a lot for it to happen I think (don't quote me!) the trouble is it sits at the bottom and is not passed through so it will be a case of build up which is where some of the grotty smell might come from; stale gasses are not nice! I haven't a clue how it would be treated, would it be flushed out or something or would there be something given that would break it down to passable amounts; no idea but I'm sure someone will know much more.

Kossoloan is (their own words!)

K Blood Salts.
Minerals, spices, trace elements and vitamin B12. Recommended for all horses especially horses in full work, youngstock and mares during last 4 months of gestation.
Carefully balanced, highly palatable compound of iodised minerals with iron, spices, trace elements and vitamin B12. Particularly valuable in spring and autumn when horses are changing their coats, but for best results should be fed year round. K is widely used by racehorse trainers to combat the effects of high feeding and to prevent staleness.

Ingredients: Minerals, cereal grain products and by-products. Products and by=products of sugar production, Charcoal, Spices, Oil and fats, Vitamin B12.

Calcium = 3.6%
Cobalt = 18.9mg/kg
Copper (copper sulphate) = 0.136%
Koper (Koper Sulfaat) = 0.136%
Iodine (Iodium) = 25mg/kg
Iron (Ijzer) = 2.2%.

Don't know if that makes any sense to you, but all I know is it works for horses below par!

Just seen HH's reply; glad to know other people thought highly of it too for exactly the same reasons! I'm sure it's what helps my mares as much as anything else.

 

[PapaFrita]

Oh, bummer. I do sympathise! I know exactly how you feel as there was a time when PF colicked quite regularly. Fortunately in her case changing her onto soaked oats stopped all that (fingers crossed!)
I know you've had some excellent advice and suggestions, but when I was looking into Valerian for Antifaz, Marius_Mum posted this link to an excellent website describing the benefits of valerian. It says that varian works well as an antispasmodic, helping in particular to prevent gassy colic. Something else to consider

 

[LauraBR]

How awful, what a worry.

I had terrible problems with JFs spasmodic colic, even an hour on rich grass would have him throwing himself on the floor, so distressing.

Can't really suggest anything other than the excellent advice already posted.

*hugs*

 

[sillygillyhorse]

this sounds so familiar, one of mine was exactly the same. His collicking is now controlled completely by diet. Like H he has to have severely restricted grazing so I tend to keep him in 24/7 (sounds cruel but believe me too much grass would kill him), he is also fed on a sugar free diet along with Global Herb prebioherb.

This routine works for my boy and has given me a happy contented horse with no tummy problems.

I know of a very good communicator who works by email, H's Mum has also used her and agree she is good. PM me if you want her details.

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you Peter!

I will definately ask my vet about doing the blood test for the redwom. He had a worm count done at Christmas and it was 0. Have sent of for another count.

What would Newmarket be able to do that a normal vet practise is not able to do? I know that they are excellent with lameness/back examinations etc, but do they have specialists vets/equipment for investigating digestion/guts? I'd be really gratefull if you could let me know on this asap. That is a seriously good idea and if they do have specialists in this area I will get him referred to Newmarket asap. I simply can't waste any time on this and I do feel that I am on a race against time in preventing the next colic attack..

 

[seabiscuit]

Wow the Kassoloan looks like seriously good stuff I do like the sound of it!

MJ has kind of got fed up with me..

.because I was forever e-mailing him/ringing when I first bought the horse, asking random, and I suppose pretty pointless questions!In the end he refused to talk to us!( I am not surprised the poor guy, 150 horses in training!) I am sure he thinks that I am somebody who just knows nothing about horses, thats the way he made me feel! But he never mentioned anything about colic, but I will e-mail him again, he might reply now that he has had a break from me for a few months now LOl.

I will look into the sand colic- there are so many possible options, you've all been brilliant!!

Karinga Bay is one of my favourite NH stallions,he is just so stunning and strong looking, that is how I noticed the Loch Irish filly! I wonder how Irish's other progeny have got on, espec the Overbury!

 

[seabiscuit]

Wow Valerian looks fantastic thank you so much PF! I had no idea it was so good for spasmodic tummies. I am ordering some now

Wish I could have F on soaked oats,but he simply cant digest ANY cereal,it gives him the runs. It really really would make him so much happier if he COULD digest them cos I know that he would've felt so fantastic on them.So the poor boy has just boring old grass nuts and alfalfa.

shame as he is so jealous when Owen gets his oats!!

 

[seabiscuit]

Thank you Lzt

I remember you having those problems with JF, it is dreadfull to watch!

 

[seabiscuit]

Am PM'ing you- I think you talking about the same animal communicator that I am trying to get hold of!

 

[PapaFrita]

Poor Forrest; I didn't realise he couldn't eat cereals. Hope the valerian helps. I hadn't realised it was so versatile either (smells horrible though!)

 

[seabiscuit]

I know I had always been made to feel very wary of it due to the press,and the jockey club banning it...so I naturally avoided it.. I swear that the papers used to say that Valium was made from Valerian...but obv.not so!