Another confused TB owner seeks feed advice (sorry!)

leflynn

leflynn

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Sorry for adding another TB feeding thread but I'm in tizz that not even tea seems to be able to fix...
Back in October I put Red (now 5 yo ex racer TB) onto the following as he dropped weight and needed to gain an awful lot of it (advice from vet)
Hayledge 2 large nets a day, plus ad lib if needed (didn't!)
Veg oil
1 scoop sugarbeet
Blue chip Original
D&H Build up mix (1.5 times the recommended feed allowance)

The fatter he got the more like a typical TB he got, a bit fizzy nothing major nothing that caused an issue, when he was underweight he was lacking in energy a bit and very docile!
I've now phased him off the Build up mix as he's now looking fab and doesn't need extra weight, but I've noticed as he's been phased off the Build up mix he's lost his fizziness and is now getting very tired very easily. He does also crib (not too badly now)

Any ideas on a replacement? I've contacted a few of the major feeds companies and they have suggested the following, but I have no idea which to start with!
Baileys have been the most helpful and suggested Outshine & Lo-cal (or Bluechip)
Winergy suggested Equilibrium Condition
Dodson & Horrell suggested Pasture Cubes with Alfalfa and build and glow (if needed)
Spillers - waiting for a response

I almost daren't ask any more feed companies as my head hurts already with the choice! Any suggestions or opinons welcome....

*I'm off to put the kettle on if anyone who gets through all that ^ would like a cuppa*
 
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I have had an ex racer for 6 years now and Bluechip original has been brilliant for her and it works out cheaper than the outshine or stud balancer. She just gets that with a scoop of Dengie Original chaff am/pm and that keeps her as rounded as she will ever be! No haylage or sb as too acidic/ high sugar content which sets of her ulcers.
 
Is it worth asking the vet again? I'm not an expert but i'd be slightly puzzled by the fact he's so tired and lacking energy just because you've weaned him off the build up mix? Perhaps the vet would be able to suggest a suitable idea for feed to help bring the spark back a bit?

I'd have thought the sugarbeet and bluechip would be enough to keep energy levels up.

Is he quite a stressy horse, or in a lot of work?

Have a look at Saracen horse feeds too. I used to use their Show Improver Pencil Mix last season when my TB was struggling to keep weight on. Saracen were really helpful with ideas too.
 
Our vet freely admits that he's not a feed expert, but has had good results with the Build up mix. He does crib and isn't really very stressy, he's not really bothered by anything other than lack of hay to much on! His character is still the same - nosey child which is why I didn't think it would be health related.

I figured there was a link between the build up and his energy levels as he was super chilled and not very energetic pre build up mix and seems to have gone back to that. He's not in massive work at the moment, 3 or 4 session mix of short lunge sessions (15 mins) or 25 mins of schooling, no canter work when schooling as the arena is a tad slippy at the mo.

I'll give Saracen a whirl, thank you!
 
Has he been checked for ulcers? Has he had any bloods taken? This would be my first plan of action if he is flat and cribbing. :)
 
Vet doesn't seem to think ulcers are the issue (was a thought that crossed my mind), he only cribs if he doesn't have hay. When I first got him he cribbed rather than eating hay so its improved a lot! His character is the same so don't think I'd descibe him as flat, he's still a cheeky swine!
 
Hi,
I feed mine a scoop of Fibergy, a scoop of Staypower Museli & sugarbeet twice a day with ad lib hay, turnout everyday and a minimum of an hours hard work a day. He's a 5 yo TB and I find that the Staypower makes him more up beat without being over the top. Build Up has a tendency to send some horses over the edge which is why I opt for the SPM. Mid season if he needs a boost (which so far he hasn't as he is super fit) I may change to Competition Mix but we'll see how how he goes. I used to work for D & H until I moved away so learnt alot whilst I was there!
Hope that helps.
 
I definitly find less is more when feeding! Feeding meals that are too big just go right through and the horse struggles to process it.
I feed low cal to my TB and he is lovely on it, I feed it alongside Hifi and a couple handfuls of meadow nuts. He is quite laid-back and prone to weight loss but he is great on this (I just add spurs for schooling) he also has haylage.

I would try a simple diet like that first. If he is still too quiet (make sure it's not a schooling issue), Saracen re-leve is a great feed, it's a performance feed. It's very high in energy but very low is starch (only 12% which is nothing for a mix), it gives energy from fibre and oil. Our boys get quite hyper on this if fed too much! It can add weight on though so you may not want to feed a lot of it :).

A feed high in energy is also high in calories so just bear that in mind.

If you are getting bogged down just remember to start simple and build up. I honestly think nuts, chaff plus lots of good forage is all that's needed most of the time. Also remember spring grass coming through soon! :)
 
I find that TB's do very well on a high fibre diet, mine get fast fibre, dengie alfalfa pellets and micronised linseed, if I need extra weight I add Copra and for extra energy (once in a blue moon LOL) I add soaked whole oats (soaked until they germinate).
And I always feed ad-lib haylage. I have 3 TB's all on this diet and they all do pretty well on it.
 
leflynn said:
Vet doesn't seem to think ulcers are the issue (was a thought that crossed my mind), he only cribs if he doesn't have hay. When I first got him he cribbed rather than eating hay so its improved a lot! His character is the same so don't think I'd descibe him as flat, he's still a cheeky swine!
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No offence but my vet didn't think mine ahd ulcers and when I persisted it turned out she had grade fours, the worse the vet had ever seen.
 
maggiesmum said:
I find that TB's do very well on a high fibre diet, mine get fast fibre, dengie alfalfa pellets and micronised linseed, if I need extra weight I add Copra and for extra energy (once in a blue moon LOL) I add soaked whole oats (soaked until they germinate).
And I always feed ad-lib haylage. I have 3 TB's all on this diet and they all do pretty well on it.
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Pretty much what mine gets apart from the fast fibre. We react to even unmolassed sugarbeet in quire a dramatic way. He's almost lazy unless you feed sb or molasses.

Also gets brewers yeast which has not only got vitamins and good for the stomach is also one of the main ingredients of Magic calmer.
 
I am bit confused as well because I can't work out quite what you are wanting!? Did you like the fizziness you got with the Build Up Mix, or was it too much? So looking for something that will give him some spark, but not as much as whilst he was on Build Up?
 
maggiesmum said:
I find that TB's do very well on a high fibre diet, mine get fast fibre, dengie alfalfa pellets and micronised linseed, if I need extra weight I add Copra and for extra energy (once in a blue moon LOL) I add soaked whole oats (soaked until they germinate).
And I always feed ad-lib haylage. I have 3 TB's all on this diet and they all do pretty well on it.
Click to expand...

ooh sorry to hijack thread - but what weights of FF , linseed and copra do you feed.
I also have a 7/8th TB just lacking a smidge of energy. was wondering if i upped the copra as its 15MJ, or add something else?
And how do they cope on oats?
 
I have an ex race horse who is 7 this year had him for 2.5 years. He crib bites and box walks, in the stable and the field. He has calmed down and this winter has been a reliably relaxed to ride. He has, 1 scoop soaked whole oats (soaked for 12-24hrs), 1/2 scoop boiled barely, double handful alfafa lite twice a day. top spec mineral/vit supplement . turnout daily. He is ridden 4/5 times a week, medium work load.

I would definitely say the feed above is cheap and keeps him looking fit and well. It does not fizz him up. Lack of exercise is the thing he dislikes the most. Fed the same last winter but also sugar beet, again ok but calmer this winter. I am not sure if he had just grown up or the sugar beet added sparkle.
 
My late mare went extremely fizzy on build up. She was very nearly unrideable and wasn't on huge amounts. She was quite stressy Had low grade ulcers and box walked if in herself. She was also a fussy eater.After trying nearly every feed in the shop She ended up on winergy senior as reccommended by them,She was only 10, she did great on that.

New boy is full tb too (5yo) and he was on conditioning cubes when I got him, he injure his leg and was on box rest with stitches in. Once healed he had dropped some condition- remained on conditioning cubes but he was just a bit too energetic so discussed with trainer and put him on spillers slow release cubes, not much less energy than conditon cubes but lots less starch and this seems to be doing the trick. He also gets some readigrass and sugar beet plus soya oil.

It's such a minefield with all the different feeds out there the feed companies are good though for advice. Then it's trial and error I'm afraid :)

p.s baileys do an endurance mix which is quite good for increasing energy levels without instant fizz, fed the mare this til she turned her nose up
 
TGM said:
I am bit confused as well because I can't work out quite what you are wanting!? Did you like the fizziness you got with the Build Up Mix, or was it too much? So looking for something that will give him some spark, but not as much as whilst he was on Build Up?
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Sorry I was a bit rambling! He needs a bit more spark but not as much as the Build up - he got a bit hotheaded on the build up on tarmac and I don't really want to go there again!
 
Thanks for the advice so far, much appreciated and I know it will be a little bit trial and error, but at least if some of you have tried and liked it might be a little easier!

I know it'll all change again with Spring grass, keeps me on my toes anyway... thanks again :)
 
It was probably the barley content of the Build Up that resulted in the fizz. As you are already using a balancer, vit/mins are already catered for, so you don't really have to add another compound supplemented feed, but could slowly introduce some grain instead - either oats or micronised barley. You can just introduce it slowly until you get the ideal amount of sparkle!
 
He doesn't seem to be doing very much work - I find it strange that he hasn't got enough energy based on the amounts you posted? I would classify him as just above resting, and when my TB is at that level, he is fed ad lib good quality hay and a handful of hi fi lite with his supplements.

Perhaps he is lacking in an all round vitamins (maybe try a general supplement) or he isn't processing the feed properly (maybe try something like pink powder). Could he be a bit anaemic?

It does sounds like quite a lot of feed in one bowl as well - maybe you could try splitting it up into 3 or 4 feeds?

My 15.2hh TB is prone to ulcers, cribs and is a stress head. He is out from 6am to 4pm on okish grazing in winter and fed 2 round scoops hi fi lite, 2 round scoop speedibeet and supplements split into 2 or 3 feeds a day (he always gets fed 30 mins before exercise to avoid splash ulcers). In the evenings he also gets a 1 small scoop of spillers fibre cubes in a treat ball. He is fed ad lib good quality hay (currently between half to 1 bale a day depending on when he comes in) and he has more than enough energy and does about 3 times the amount of work you have described and at the moment he is on the porky side. Haylage just made his cribbing worse (even meadow grass haylage). In summer he is out 24/7 and gets only a handful of hi fi lite with supplements and he tends to be quite fat even with an increase in work load. I do feed an all round supplement though all year round as I don't feed the recommended levels of feed as it would just be too much for him for his level of work which I classify as light (ridden 3 or 4 times a week, 30 mins lunging, 2 hours schooling, 2 hours hacking, 50% increase in workload in summer).
 
kezimac said:
ooh sorry to hijack thread - but what weights of FF , linseed and copra do you feed.
I also have a 7/8th TB just lacking a smidge of energy. was wondering if i upped the copra as its 15MJ, or add something else?
And how do they cope on oats?
Click to expand...


They get about 500g of both FF and alfalfa pellets, 100g of linseed and a mug of copra, I fI use oats I start with 1/2 a mug full and play with the quantity till i'm happy.
I buy whole oats and soak them for a day till they start to germinate, they seem to like them and they seem less reactive to them fed this way.
 
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