Madam_max
Well-Known Member
Gosh that is shocking
Another fatal accident in eventing...
- Thread starter flohelf
- Start date
kerilli
Well-Known Member
well, i hope this thread will make someone important pay attention enough to look into this.
having said which, i can think of riders that i think ride downright dangerously, and they don't seem to get any warnings or reprimands.
tragic that it happened. i don't think you can blame Mark Phillipps, he has a lot of irons in a lot of fires and isn't even based in the same country as her. i agree though with the principle - if someone i was training had a record like that, i'd say stick to Novice until you've sorted yourself out and got a bit of consistency going, and lots confidence and clear rounds, because whatever you may have done in the past, if it isn't working at the moment, sort it out, at a safe level.
having said which, i can think of riders that i think ride downright dangerously, and they don't seem to get any warnings or reprimands.
tragic that it happened. i don't think you can blame Mark Phillipps, he has a lot of irons in a lot of fires and isn't even based in the same country as her. i agree though with the principle - if someone i was training had a record like that, i'd say stick to Novice until you've sorted yourself out and got a bit of consistency going, and lots confidence and clear rounds, because whatever you may have done in the past, if it isn't working at the moment, sort it out, at a safe level.
Olivia1210
Member
do you not think it is a bit cruel to be making these insinuations in the public domain when nobody here rode the horse or had a feel of its capability or talent?
if i was her parents/friends/trainers and read this i would be sad that people can disrespect the dead in such a way!! it is completely possible for them to read this. It would be aweful if you were her mum and read this-imagine being given a guilt trip for the rest of your life because of what people are saying in a forum....
eg. Eventermen: "anyoe who cared enough to say STOP??"
what a horrible thing to say....somehow i dont think you would have the guts to say this to her parents face-and if you would well that proves how disrespectful you are.
this is a tragedy, we are not talking about someone who made a fool of themselves on a XC course on TV, we are talking about a horse and rider being killed. and some people on this forum obviously know or have connections with the pair.
show some respect to the dead here. no one deserves to pay this price for doing something they love. and she does not deserve to be spoken of in a derogatory manner like this. everyone makes mistakes and its very easy to judge with the advantage of hindsight.
(oh and ofcourse she qualified for badminton under FEI rules for those who doubt it)
if i was her parents/friends/trainers and read this i would be sad that people can disrespect the dead in such a way!! it is completely possible for them to read this. It would be aweful if you were her mum and read this-imagine being given a guilt trip for the rest of your life because of what people are saying in a forum....
eg. Eventermen: "anyoe who cared enough to say STOP??"
what a horrible thing to say....somehow i dont think you would have the guts to say this to her parents face-and if you would well that proves how disrespectful you are.
this is a tragedy, we are not talking about someone who made a fool of themselves on a XC course on TV, we are talking about a horse and rider being killed. and some people on this forum obviously know or have connections with the pair.
show some respect to the dead here. no one deserves to pay this price for doing something they love. and she does not deserve to be spoken of in a derogatory manner like this. everyone makes mistakes and its very easy to judge with the advantage of hindsight.
(oh and ofcourse she qualified for badminton under FEI rules for those who doubt it)
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
There is no disrespect here. We are always saddened to hear of any equestrian-related death.
However, have you looked at her record? We're questioning WHY this was allowed to happen when her record clearly shows something was wrong as has been for some time. I believe she was 21? Therefore, she made her own choices.
We KNOW this is a serious matter where a horse and rider were killed, but we're wondering why it was allowed to get that far in the first place. Surely you'd question a death you thought could have been avoided?
I think we're trying to draw attention to her past record because the FEI have to do something - they shouldn't let it get this far. Nobody wants another death like this to happen.
However, have you looked at her record? We're questioning WHY this was allowed to happen when her record clearly shows something was wrong as has been for some time. I believe she was 21? Therefore, she made her own choices.
We KNOW this is a serious matter where a horse and rider were killed, but we're wondering why it was allowed to get that far in the first place. Surely you'd question a death you thought could have been avoided?
I think we're trying to draw attention to her past record because the FEI have to do something - they shouldn't let it get this far. Nobody wants another death like this to happen.
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
food for thought but maybe would have been better said in a different thread.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
we are just discussing the facts, unfortunately. one fact is that it is a very dangerous sport, we all know that, and that it is ultimately the rider's responsibility to make decisions as to what level to compete at, based on how the horse is going. there are tragically, lots of top riders who have paid the ultimate price on horses which had a great track record, but a momentary blip. all we are saying is that if one doesn't have a great track record, someone should perhaps have said something. no disrespect to the poor girl, her poor horse, or her family and friends, for whom i feel great sympathy.
Mercury91
Well-Known Member
My comment stands! With zero apology! Tragedy yes!!
Make changes so this never happens again? YES!!Its all I want I am sick to death of watching death I have been on course for 3 of them in the ast 2 years! And at 5 Events where death happened in the last 3 years.
An elimentaion and retirement then decides to go Advanced at Morven Park? who alowed that?? MORVEN PARK?? Thats the last Advanced you would ever think to do your move up. She was coming off one horrible Intermediate after anoher!
Olivia if you really care this is the only way to make changes... Sorry I nor anyone I know is sitting in on these FEI meetings after things like this happen. These forums are the only way to make changes. Keep up the good work Victoria and I recommend you scan Google New's with the Riders name Not a single mention of the riders past perfomance just 1 clear point is being made IS EVENTING TO DANGEROUS!!!
You tell me what sport anywhere in the world does ths happen?? None period!!! Why ?? Because its a good old boy sport period!! Dont ruffle Feathers!! Sweep it under the rug!
My god if a Baseball player kept tripping over second base the press would have his high school track coach live from his home on CNN asking did he ever do this at Track?
So Ovilia are you sayng that her past horrific and quite simply the worst record I have ever seen should not be brought out or discussed?
You my dear you are Danderous I hope to god your not a trainer!
Make changes so this never happens again? YES!!Its all I want I am sick to death of watching death I have been on course for 3 of them in the ast 2 years! And at 5 Events where death happened in the last 3 years.
An elimentaion and retirement then decides to go Advanced at Morven Park? who alowed that?? MORVEN PARK?? Thats the last Advanced you would ever think to do your move up. She was coming off one horrible Intermediate after anoher!
Olivia if you really care this is the only way to make changes... Sorry I nor anyone I know is sitting in on these FEI meetings after things like this happen. These forums are the only way to make changes. Keep up the good work Victoria and I recommend you scan Google New's with the Riders name Not a single mention of the riders past perfomance just 1 clear point is being made IS EVENTING TO DANGEROUS!!!
You tell me what sport anywhere in the world does ths happen?? None period!!! Why ?? Because its a good old boy sport period!! Dont ruffle Feathers!! Sweep it under the rug!
My god if a Baseball player kept tripping over second base the press would have his high school track coach live from his home on CNN asking did he ever do this at Track?
So Ovilia are you sayng that her past horrific and quite simply the worst record I have ever seen should not be brought out or discussed?
You my dear you are Danderous I hope to god your not a trainer!
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
[ QUOTE ]
So Ovilia are you sayng that her past horrific and quite simply the worst record I have ever seen should not be brought out or discussed?
You my dear you are Danderous I hope to god your not a trainer!
[/ QUOTE ]
calm down! I dont think thats what she meant. personally I took this thread as a RIP thread. Its not unfeasible that family and friends of the poor girl may look on the web at some point to see what people are saying. All I meant was that this discussion may have been more appropriate in a different thread.
So Ovilia are you sayng that her past horrific and quite simply the worst record I have ever seen should not be brought out or discussed?
You my dear you are Danderous I hope to god your not a trainer!
[/ QUOTE ]
calm down! I dont think thats what she meant. personally I took this thread as a RIP thread. Its not unfeasible that family and friends of the poor girl may look on the web at some point to see what people are saying. All I meant was that this discussion may have been more appropriate in a different thread.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
i agree with Eventermen on this. although i don't know the size or standard of difficulty at Morven Park or any other u.s. event, i've evented my own horses to Intermediate and Advanced level, and i made absolutely sure that they were flying round happily clear again and again before moving them up a level. that is what responsible, thinking riders do, if they want to make an admittedly dangerous sport a bit less dangerous to themselves and their horses.
i am genuinely very sorry if that sounds unsympathetic and disrespectful, but it isn't meant to be, it's a cold hard fact.
if someone in authority had said "the horse isn't going well enough to do a 2*" then the fact is that the poor girl and her horse would still be here, working on ironing out their problems.
i am genuinely very sorry if that sounds unsympathetic and disrespectful, but it isn't meant to be, it's a cold hard fact.
if someone in authority had said "the horse isn't going well enough to do a 2*" then the fact is that the poor girl and her horse would still be here, working on ironing out their problems.
Olivia1210
Member
surprise surprise i wouldnt expect someone cold hearted enough to say on a forum: "Did this rider have Parents?? Trainer?? anyoe who cared enough to say STOP??" to apologise for their actions. what a revolting comment to read. to suggest parents and a trainer wouldnt try to prevent a death because they didnt "care enough" is a revolting and extremely ignorant comment to make.
"You my dear you are Danderous" - dont patronise me.
u say you hope i am not a trainer...i hope you are not a parent. infact i expect you arent because i cant believe if you were that you would have the nerve to disrespect the parents of the young lady involved in the tragedy by leaving such comments
"You my dear you are Danderous" - dont patronise me.
u say you hope i am not a trainer...i hope you are not a parent. infact i expect you arent because i cant believe if you were that you would have the nerve to disrespect the parents of the young lady involved in the tragedy by leaving such comments
lifeslemons
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So Ovilia are you sayng that her past horrific and quite simply the worst record I have ever seen should not be brought out or discussed?
You my dear you are Danderous I hope to god your not a trainer!
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite frankly, you [eventerman] are someone I wouldn't even want to meet!
Sorry but this is a post of memorial to a girl who regardless of her results, was very talented and hard working. I wouldn't want to comment on her results, and while eventerman may have a valid point, to discuss it on this particular thread is out of order.
I recall just as many similar comments of aggression over Amy Tryon. Do you personally know Ellie, or have any idea other than the hard stats? Furthermore, Ellie isn't trained by Mark Phillips at the moment, although granted she was when she was based with him.
You have every right to express your anger... but not in this rest in piece post. Show some f u c k i n g sensitivity. And to be even more constructive, why not right to the FEI voicing your concerns if it makes you this insensed?
[ QUOTE ]
So Ovilia are you sayng that her past horrific and quite simply the worst record I have ever seen should not be brought out or discussed?
You my dear you are Danderous I hope to god your not a trainer!
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite frankly, you [eventerman] are someone I wouldn't even want to meet!
Sorry but this is a post of memorial to a girl who regardless of her results, was very talented and hard working. I wouldn't want to comment on her results, and while eventerman may have a valid point, to discuss it on this particular thread is out of order.
I recall just as many similar comments of aggression over Amy Tryon. Do you personally know Ellie, or have any idea other than the hard stats? Furthermore, Ellie isn't trained by Mark Phillips at the moment, although granted she was when she was based with him.
You have every right to express your anger... but not in this rest in piece post. Show some f u c k i n g sensitivity. And to be even more constructive, why not right to the FEI voicing your concerns if it makes you this insensed?
flohelf
Well-Known Member
Ditto lifeslemons...
No matter how valid some of the points expressed above may be, they are way out of line in this thread...
Just hope no one among Eleanor's closed ones come across some of these posts...
No matter how valid some of the points expressed above may be, they are way out of line in this thread...
Just hope no one among Eleanor's closed ones come across some of these posts...
lifeslemons
Well-Known Member
I think that admin should remove them, as they are deeply hurtful and insulting. Imagine if you were the parents, and came across this?
Mercury91
Well-Known Member
Cold hearted? No, very sadden by this young girls death. And the more I dig the sader Iget. And to the other poster I was hoping this could be hidden in a long post and I asure it is. I didnt want to start a new thread with such harsh truths and realities. Enough said I shall move on as I always do and only return to these boards when tragedy happens. Hopefully its a long good bye! Thanks for all the notes of encouragement by the way. I have printed out the records and written quite a long letter to the FEI I hope changes are made. Another Sad time in Eventing!
Eccles
Well-Known Member
Regardless of whatever decisions this poor girl made, she lost her life.
Perhaps a different thread discussing general past performance on eventing accidents would be more appropriate.
As I understand this post was started as a tribute to someone who paid the ultimate price for doing what she loved and is simply not the place for judgements when none of us here know the full background.
Perhaps a different thread discussing general past performance on eventing accidents would be more appropriate.
As I understand this post was started as a tribute to someone who paid the ultimate price for doing what she loved and is simply not the place for judgements when none of us here know the full background.
arden
Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have printed out the records and written quite a long letter to the FEI I hope changes are made. Another Sad time in Eventing!
[/ QUOTE ]you are writing to the wrong people. The FEI only sets general parameters for the whole world that have to allow for every situation. It follows logically then that the next step in the chain, the NF, further refines those criteria to their specific situation, their riders and horses, etc. Sure, the FEI can augment qualification criteria across the board, but it is the NF (BEF) which controls who enters any FEI event under their flag (other than a championship etc.). It is the NF which intimately knows their venues and is supposed to monitor their riders. Further, many qualifications are earned or maintained at national venues about which the FEI has little information and can't control. Hence, it's logically the NF's role. They have a choice--they can just say OK she's met the criteria and send in the entry. Or, they can say, well, yes she's technically qualified but in reviewing her record we have some concerns and would like her to stay at national level with this horse, or drop back down a level, or whatever. Or that they just don't want her riding under their flag at this time. Then, they don't authorize the entry. Their choice. This level of monitoring is appropriately done by the NF, not the FEI. And if the BEF isn't doing it, who is?????
I have printed out the records and written quite a long letter to the FEI I hope changes are made. Another Sad time in Eventing!
[/ QUOTE ]you are writing to the wrong people. The FEI only sets general parameters for the whole world that have to allow for every situation. It follows logically then that the next step in the chain, the NF, further refines those criteria to their specific situation, their riders and horses, etc. Sure, the FEI can augment qualification criteria across the board, but it is the NF (BEF) which controls who enters any FEI event under their flag (other than a championship etc.). It is the NF which intimately knows their venues and is supposed to monitor their riders. Further, many qualifications are earned or maintained at national venues about which the FEI has little information and can't control. Hence, it's logically the NF's role. They have a choice--they can just say OK she's met the criteria and send in the entry. Or, they can say, well, yes she's technically qualified but in reviewing her record we have some concerns and would like her to stay at national level with this horse, or drop back down a level, or whatever. Or that they just don't want her riding under their flag at this time. Then, they don't authorize the entry. Their choice. This level of monitoring is appropriately done by the NF, not the FEI. And if the BEF isn't doing it, who is?????
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Can I just say that I don't really see the point in people saying "start this on another thread" because it could still be viewed by the parents (although I doubt they'd be cruising round forums at a time like this) whichever thread its on. But ok, I will go and start a new thread if thats what some of you want...
Eventerman - you don't have to move on. Everybody has opinions on here, thats the whole point of the forum. Often, we don't agree with eachother but that's life.
I still stand by my point that this discussion is relevent because none of us want this to be allowed to happen again. I think its ignorant to NOT try to look at the facts behind a death - thats exactly what I assume the FEI investigation will do. Although, blame should probably be held back. At the end of the day, she chose to compete at the level she was doing even though she knew the risks.
Eventerman - you don't have to move on. Everybody has opinions on here, thats the whole point of the forum. Often, we don't agree with eachother but that's life.
I still stand by my point that this discussion is relevent because none of us want this to be allowed to happen again. I think its ignorant to NOT try to look at the facts behind a death - thats exactly what I assume the FEI investigation will do. Although, blame should probably be held back. At the end of the day, she chose to compete at the level she was doing even though she knew the risks.
skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
I can't see what's wrong with eventerman's comments. I don't honestly expect her parents would be reading this forum in the current circumstances, and if the sport let her down, then in due course, they will want to know that. No risk sport should allow people to compete at a level which is beyond them, whether it's eventing, skiing, motor racing ....
I would also like to point out that it is lifeslemon whose language has frankly sunk below where I am comfortable reading. If I want four letter words, I'll go to a football match or hitch a ride on a school bus.
I would also like to point out that it is lifeslemon whose language has frankly sunk below where I am comfortable reading. If I want four letter words, I'll go to a football match or hitch a ride on a school bus.
X
xspiralx
Guest
I don't think its entirely fair to say the sport is to blame for this accident.
Looking at the results, I really cannot understand why Ellie continued to compete at this level. I would never say she deserved what happened and its terribly sad, but I think she was unwise to continue competing at a high level when she was barely completing the events. However she was an adult and as such it was her choice to do so despite the risks.
Looking at the results, I really cannot understand why Ellie continued to compete at this level. I would never say she deserved what happened and its terribly sad, but I think she was unwise to continue competing at a high level when she was barely completing the events. However she was an adult and as such it was her choice to do so despite the risks.
Baggybreeches
Well-Known Member
I had known the horse for a number of years and tbh he was a lovely talented, but very very difficult horse, I havent said anything earlier, but I too am inclined to agree that it was overambitious to run the horse at this level. In response to those people who say Ellie was a very talented young lady, perhaps she was moderately talented, but I'm afraid her record doesnt make me say 'WOW'. There is many more talented riders grinding out results on fairly decent horses, who have actually gone clear on most of their runs!
Not being disrespectful just an observation.
Not being disrespectful just an observation.
poggio
Well-Known Member
I don't think people are being disrespectful at all, everyone has stressed how horribly tragic this is but you can't help but realise how this accident could have been prevented!
I never have rated her as a rider and having seen her ride daily and competitively wouldn't have felt comfortable watching her ride around an advanced track - although she did somehow get round Badminton, albeit on a super talented pone! I am sorry to say that I think this was typical of a rider blinded by their hunger for success and it is just so incredibly sad that she paid the ultimate price.
My heart really really does go out to all family and friends, but there are some very serious points here that do need to be raised.
I never have rated her as a rider and having seen her ride daily and competitively wouldn't have felt comfortable watching her ride around an advanced track - although she did somehow get round Badminton, albeit on a super talented pone! I am sorry to say that I think this was typical of a rider blinded by their hunger for success and it is just so incredibly sad that she paid the ultimate price.
My heart really really does go out to all family and friends, but there are some very serious points here that do need to be raised.
Mid
Well-Known Member
"yes there has slightly, but i don't think the type of horse eventing now has anything to do with it, just the way they are triained."
it's more thoroubreds now, rather then hunter types? i heard someone say that warmbloods and IDs just couldn't make the speed for the XC... perhaps now people are doing a faster round, so approaching the jumps at a greater speed?
it's more thoroubreds now, rather then hunter types? i heard someone say that warmbloods and IDs just couldn't make the speed for the XC... perhaps now people are doing a faster round, so approaching the jumps at a greater speed?
SteveD
Well-Known Member
Personally, I think those people who have chosen to criticise this young girls achievements after her tragic death, should feel bloody ashamed of themselves.
whatever you think, now is definately not the time for criticism or blame.
may I suggest that these kind of posts stops now out of respect for a fellow equestrian....
whatever you think, now is definately not the time for criticism or blame.
may I suggest that these kind of posts stops now out of respect for a fellow equestrian....
eahotson
Well-Known Member
If this girl really shouldn't have been riding at this level I think it should be discussed. It won't sadly bring this poor girl back to life but it may help save someone elses life.If she had been my daughter I would prefer that someone tell her that she hadn't got the necessary skill to ride at this level.She may have been hurt and upset but she would still be alive and there are other things in life than horse competitions.At this level there should be an effective and independent screening carried out.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Wow, didn't realise this post was still going!
I'm not ashamed, I doubt others are either and I don't understand why we should be?! We don't WANT to see deaths in our sport, if there's something to be discussed as to how this should have been avoided then what's wrong with that? Like eahotson says, if another death like this could be avoided then surely it SHOULD be discussed!
I'm not ashamed, I doubt others are either and I don't understand why we should be?! We don't WANT to see deaths in our sport, if there's something to be discussed as to how this should have been avoided then what's wrong with that? Like eahotson says, if another death like this could be avoided then surely it SHOULD be discussed!
emmajames01
New User
I interviewed Eleanor about her preparations for Badminton when she was just 18. A truly lovely girl with bags of talent. My thoughts are with all who knew her well.
It amazes me that so little appears to be being done to discover the reasons for the massive increase in fatal accidents.
Can you imagine the furore if 11 racing car drivers were killed in one year?
It amazes me that so little appears to be being done to discover the reasons for the massive increase in fatal accidents.
Can you imagine the furore if 11 racing car drivers were killed in one year?