another FRANCH post (sorry) - is it only our forum who think like us?
- Thread starter Natch
- Start date
canteron
Well-Known Member
I think that some of the Franch postings have been witty and funny and informative, but ultimately I think that there are some poor horses being put through hell just so some dodgy person can make a few quid - and its all very sad.
BankEndRescue
Well-Known Member
It's raging on the the IHDG too
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
BE, do you have a link to that, please?
lannerch
Well-Known Member
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Coolkat
Active Member
And have you actually read this
http://www.newrider.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2094898&postcount=6
Rather contradicts your argument that the French horse rescuers are fuelling the trade
http://www.newrider.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2094898&postcount=6
Rather contradicts your argument that the French horse rescuers are fuelling the trade
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
And have you actually read this
http://www.newrider.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2094898&postcount=6
Rather contradicts your argument that the French horse rescuers are fuelling the trade
[/ QUOTE ]
But he lives in HUNGARY, he's talking about Hungarian horses
And have you actually read this
http://www.newrider.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2094898&postcount=6
Rather contradicts your argument that the French horse rescuers are fuelling the trade
[/ QUOTE ]
But he lives in HUNGARY, he's talking about Hungarian horses
Coolkat
Active Member
Yes, I'm aware of that. He is saying that there are no people 'fuelling the trade' there by rescuing, and yet the meat prices are still sky high.
One of the main points in the 'anti rescue' argument is that if the rescuers stop rescuing, there would be no market for the horses so the farmers wouldn't be breeding. This point is contradicted by the gentleman from Hungary.
One of the main points in the 'anti rescue' argument is that if the rescuers stop rescuing, there would be no market for the horses so the farmers wouldn't be breeding. This point is contradicted by the gentleman from Hungary.
Gonetofrance
Well-Known Member
But but but but, which part of 'He's in Hungary' don't you understand?
It's not France, so what is happening in his country is irrelevant.
It's not France, so what is happening in his country is irrelevant.
Coolkat
Active Member
So, it works differently in Hungary then?
Here is an example of a country that has no rescuers, BUT sky high meat prices. But that's not relevant, because in France if you took the rescuers away, there would be no market.
Despite the fact that horses have been bred for meat for many, many years before rescuers came on the scene.
Ok then.
Here is an example of a country that has no rescuers, BUT sky high meat prices. But that's not relevant, because in France if you took the rescuers away, there would be no market.
Despite the fact that horses have been bred for meat for many, many years before rescuers came on the scene.
Ok then.
PennyJ
Well-Known Member
I think thats a rather extreme view Coolkat. The market for horse meat (to eat) will not drop to zero, therefore the farmers will not stop breeding. Not unless there is some horse meat scare, similar to Edwina Currie's Salmonella in eggs one over here quite a long time ago now.
Therefore there will continue to be a market for the meat horses, which will continue to operate irrespective of whether meat horses are "rescued" or not.
I think the whole "rescue" thing is a sham on which a number of people are making quite a bit of money on the side. Horse dealing by another name...
Therefore there will continue to be a market for the meat horses, which will continue to operate irrespective of whether meat horses are "rescued" or not.
I think the whole "rescue" thing is a sham on which a number of people are making quite a bit of money on the side. Horse dealing by another name...
Coolkat
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats a rather extreme view Coolkat. The market for horse meat (to eat) will not drop to zero, therefore the farmers will not stop breeding. Not unless there is some horse meat scare, similar to Edwina Currie's Salmonella in eggs one over here quite a long time ago now.
Therefore there will continue to be a market for the meat horses, which will continue to operate irrespective of whether meat horses are "rescued" or not.
I think the whole "rescue" thing is a sham on which a number of people are making quite a bit of money on the side. Horse dealing by another name...
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree, except the bottom paragraph. the 'anti rescue' people have been suggesting that the trade is fuelled by the rescuers, which is obviously untrue.
On the last paragraph, I do agree that the there are a lot of people who are dealing in the rescue horses. BUT there are also some who are rescuing for the right reasons.
I think thats a rather extreme view Coolkat. The market for horse meat (to eat) will not drop to zero, therefore the farmers will not stop breeding. Not unless there is some horse meat scare, similar to Edwina Currie's Salmonella in eggs one over here quite a long time ago now.
Therefore there will continue to be a market for the meat horses, which will continue to operate irrespective of whether meat horses are "rescued" or not.
I think the whole "rescue" thing is a sham on which a number of people are making quite a bit of money on the side. Horse dealing by another name...
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree, except the bottom paragraph. the 'anti rescue' people have been suggesting that the trade is fuelled by the rescuers, which is obviously untrue.
On the last paragraph, I do agree that the there are a lot of people who are dealing in the rescue horses. BUT there are also some who are rescuing for the right reasons.
moralcampaigner
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats a rather extreme view Coolkat. The market for horse meat (to eat) will not drop to zero, therefore the farmers will not stop breeding. Not unless there is some horse meat scare, similar to Edwina Currie's Salmonella in eggs one over here quite a long time ago now.
Therefore there will continue to be a market for the meat horses, which will continue to operate irrespective of whether meat horses are "rescued" or not.
I think the whole "rescue" thing is a sham on which a number of people are making quite a bit of money on the side. Horse dealing by another name...
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree, except the bottom paragraph. the 'anti rescue' people have been suggesting that the trade is fuelled by the rescuers, which is obviously untrue.
On the last paragraph, I do agree that the there are a lot of people who are dealing in the rescue horses. BUT there are also some who are rescuing for the right reasons.
[/ QUOTE ]
For more than a few days now you have been really winding me up. You have made pathetic attempts to discredit GTF and have in all honesty been spoiling for an arguement.
I totally object to you calling people anti rescue, as there is no rescue to be had in the case of the people/person that have been discussed. It isnt rescue for the squillionth time, it is glorified cruelty. Have you not read the posts that tell you time and time again how the safe havens are disgusting and the horses are being sold on when they get here?
For God sake if you dont have anything better to do then please just go away and come back when you have more of a justifiable arguement!
[ QUOTE ]
I think thats a rather extreme view Coolkat. The market for horse meat (to eat) will not drop to zero, therefore the farmers will not stop breeding. Not unless there is some horse meat scare, similar to Edwina Currie's Salmonella in eggs one over here quite a long time ago now.
Therefore there will continue to be a market for the meat horses, which will continue to operate irrespective of whether meat horses are "rescued" or not.
I think the whole "rescue" thing is a sham on which a number of people are making quite a bit of money on the side. Horse dealing by another name...
[/ QUOTE ]
Totally agree, except the bottom paragraph. the 'anti rescue' people have been suggesting that the trade is fuelled by the rescuers, which is obviously untrue.
On the last paragraph, I do agree that the there are a lot of people who are dealing in the rescue horses. BUT there are also some who are rescuing for the right reasons.
[/ QUOTE ]
For more than a few days now you have been really winding me up. You have made pathetic attempts to discredit GTF and have in all honesty been spoiling for an arguement.
I totally object to you calling people anti rescue, as there is no rescue to be had in the case of the people/person that have been discussed. It isnt rescue for the squillionth time, it is glorified cruelty. Have you not read the posts that tell you time and time again how the safe havens are disgusting and the horses are being sold on when they get here?
For God sake if you dont have anything better to do then please just go away and come back when you have more of a justifiable arguement!
Coolkat
Active Member
I have no reason to discredit GTF, I don't know her or anything about her, so I don't have a clue where you get that idea from. As for spoiling for an argument, the whole purpose of a forum such as this is so people can express their opinion. It appears that if that's different to yours, then it's 'spoiling for an argument!
There does appear to be a problem with the safe haven. It appears that people who were deemed to be trustworthy told others that the said safe haven was bona fide, but unfortunately they were lying. The way it is being told on here makes it appear that this was a deliberate act on the part of the forum(s) involved!
I agree that in some cases horses are being sold on. However, in many others, they are not.
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
There does appear to be a problem with the safe haven. It appears that people who were deemed to be trustworthy told others that the said safe haven was bona fide, but unfortunately they were lying. The way it is being told on here makes it appear that this was a deliberate act on the part of the forum(s) involved!
I agree that in some cases horses are being sold on. However, in many others, they are not.
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
spaniel
Well-Known Member
erm.....maybe because the Hungarians like their horsemeat??
I dont think there are many of us here who are naive enough to think that people will stop eating horse, thats not what this is about. The fact is that through exploitation and emotional manipulation some people in the UK are misguidedly funding cruelty. Who is resposnsible for the cruelty is, as far as these horses are concerned, secondary. if you remove the end user this particular cruelty will stop.
If folks want to eat horse then fine, I have no argument with that. If folks want to spend their money importing rubbish horses at over inflated prices, fine, I have no problem with that either. What I have a problem with is the abject cruelty involved.
I dont think there are many of us here who are naive enough to think that people will stop eating horse, thats not what this is about. The fact is that through exploitation and emotional manipulation some people in the UK are misguidedly funding cruelty. Who is resposnsible for the cruelty is, as far as these horses are concerned, secondary. if you remove the end user this particular cruelty will stop.
If folks want to eat horse then fine, I have no argument with that. If folks want to spend their money importing rubbish horses at over inflated prices, fine, I have no problem with that either. What I have a problem with is the abject cruelty involved.
moralcampaigner
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have no reason to discredit GTF, I don't know her or anything about her, so I don't have a clue where you get that idea from. As for spoiling for an argument, the whole purpose of a forum such as this is so people can express their opinion. It appears that if that's different to yours, then it's 'spoiling for an argument!
There does appear to be a problem with the safe haven. It appears that people who were deemed to be trustworthy told others that the said safe haven was bona fide, but unfortunately they were lying. The way it is being told on here makes it appear that this was a deliberate act on the part of the forum(s) involved!
I agree that in some cases horses are being sold on. However, in many others, they are not.
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
[/ QUOTE ]
If I am wrong and you do not indeed want to discredit gtf, then I am sorry, however you do seem to not only disagree but actively seek to criticise, that however could be just my perception of the situation, I am a sensitive soul at the best of times.
I, personally, have no doubt that at least one of the forums knows/knew the state of the safe haven, indeed if I have been told correctly then they not only knew of the state it was in, but used it knowing that and the fact that the transporter that recommended was in fact an illegal transporter, in actual fact, I have more morals in my little finger than that individual has in the whole of there body.
Please dont get me wrong, I am all for a healthy debate and I will always admit when I am wrong, as much as it may pain me to do so, lol.
Indeed I do believe that a forum is a place for debate.
I have made know mention to Hungry as I dont feel it relevant, I personally dont think that by so called rescuing it is fuelling the meat trade as such and I also have no problem with people eating horse if they so wish.
I feel that by buying and bringing here it is lining the farmers pocket and fuelling evermore breeding for the soft English folk to buy into
I have no reason to discredit GTF, I don't know her or anything about her, so I don't have a clue where you get that idea from. As for spoiling for an argument, the whole purpose of a forum such as this is so people can express their opinion. It appears that if that's different to yours, then it's 'spoiling for an argument!
There does appear to be a problem with the safe haven. It appears that people who were deemed to be trustworthy told others that the said safe haven was bona fide, but unfortunately they were lying. The way it is being told on here makes it appear that this was a deliberate act on the part of the forum(s) involved!
I agree that in some cases horses are being sold on. However, in many others, they are not.
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
[/ QUOTE ]
If I am wrong and you do not indeed want to discredit gtf, then I am sorry, however you do seem to not only disagree but actively seek to criticise, that however could be just my perception of the situation, I am a sensitive soul at the best of times.
I, personally, have no doubt that at least one of the forums knows/knew the state of the safe haven, indeed if I have been told correctly then they not only knew of the state it was in, but used it knowing that and the fact that the transporter that recommended was in fact an illegal transporter, in actual fact, I have more morals in my little finger than that individual has in the whole of there body.
Please dont get me wrong, I am all for a healthy debate and I will always admit when I am wrong, as much as it may pain me to do so, lol.
Indeed I do believe that a forum is a place for debate.
I have made know mention to Hungry as I dont feel it relevant, I personally dont think that by so called rescuing it is fuelling the meat trade as such and I also have no problem with people eating horse if they so wish.
I feel that by buying and bringing here it is lining the farmers pocket and fuelling evermore breeding for the soft English folk to buy into
Dobsie
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
[/ QUOTE ]
erm - because they eat / export the meat?
No-one is saying that horses are ONLY bred for rescuers, just that more horses are bred when rescuers are 'rescuing' some of them. The same number still go to slaughter surely - supply & demand and all that.
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
[/ QUOTE ]
erm - because they eat / export the meat?
No-one is saying that horses are ONLY bred for rescuers, just that more horses are bred when rescuers are 'rescuing' some of them. The same number still go to slaughter surely - supply & demand and all that.
moralcampaigner
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
[/ QUOTE ]
erm - because they eat / export the meat?
No-one is saying that horses are ONLY bred for rescuers, just that more horses are bred when rescuers are 'rescuing' some of them. The same number still go to slaughter surely - supply & demand and all that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank God, someone that seems to understand where I am coming from!
In fact, probably less go for slaughter as they are coming here!
[ QUOTE ]
You have made no reference to my comment about why there is still a meat trade in Hungary, even though there are no rescuers to fuel it?
[/ QUOTE ]
erm - because they eat / export the meat?
No-one is saying that horses are ONLY bred for rescuers, just that more horses are bred when rescuers are 'rescuing' some of them. The same number still go to slaughter surely - supply & demand and all that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank God, someone that seems to understand where I am coming from!
In fact, probably less go for slaughter as they are coming here!
JM07
Well-Known Member
this whole thing summerised..
Dealers and Middlemen
SIMPLE.
Dealers and Middlemen
SIMPLE.
noir
Member
What a load of cobblers you talk JM07
With the present economic climate over in the UK your dealers would make far more money buying the cheap horses in your weekly markets.
Why oh why would they come over here to France to pay the farmers top prices and transport costs to take them all the way back to the UK???
Its the biggest load of senseless crap I have heard apart from when GTF called rescuing Dressed up dealing!!!!
The two of you have absolutely no idea what the point of buying and selling is all about have you??
I will make it simple for the pea brained amongst us.
1, You buy horses from the cheapest source, with the least added on expenses
2, You sell it for the biggest profit.
Got it?????
With the present economic climate over in the UK your dealers would make far more money buying the cheap horses in your weekly markets.
Why oh why would they come over here to France to pay the farmers top prices and transport costs to take them all the way back to the UK???
Its the biggest load of senseless crap I have heard apart from when GTF called rescuing Dressed up dealing!!!!
The two of you have absolutely no idea what the point of buying and selling is all about have you??
I will make it simple for the pea brained amongst us.
1, You buy horses from the cheapest source, with the least added on expenses
2, You sell it for the biggest profit.
Got it?????
piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
PMSL get a grip!!!
Sureky it should be..............
1) Source Franch horse
2) Add sob story (get some guilble mugs to buy it, and take hefty commission).
3) Transport (get full load, to ensure maximum profit).
Sureky it should be..............
1) Source Franch horse
2) Add sob story (get some guilble mugs to buy it, and take hefty commission).
3) Transport (get full load, to ensure maximum profit).
PennyJ
Well-Known Member
I am settled down with the popcorn, waiting to see JM07's response to noirs post above
Fizzimyst
Well-Known Member
Budge up
Happy Horse
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Its the biggest load of senseless crap I have heard apart from when GTF called rescuing Dressed up dealing!!!!
The two of you have absolutely no idea what the point of buying and selling is all about have you??
I will make it simple for the pea brained amongst us.
1, You buy horses from the cheapest source, with the least added on expenses
2, You sell it for the biggest profit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly what the French Farmers are doing although they have almost the perfect business. They can buy any old horse regardless of condition as the meat price is based on weight and not whether the horse is sound. The forums do the advertising which is purely based on how cute the horse looks in a photo. A well meaning English person pays money to buy the horse sight unseen, pays the money and the horse is removed to a 'safe haven'.
The farmer then has the money to go and buy another horse and the process starts again. The good news for the farmer is that if the replacement horse is not 'rescued' it can go on the next lorry to the slaughterhouse. There is a demand for horse meat which will be satisfied regardless of how many are ''rescued'.
IN the meantime the 'rescued' horse having spent time in the 'safe haven' eventually makes it back to the UK for the new owner to discover exactly what they have bought. They have no come back as they would buying from the UK where dealers are covered by the Sale of Goods act. If they are lucky the horse doesn't have any terrible deformities, illness or behavioural issues. Some will stay in the same home, others as we know get sold on and lost to the system.
The forums are just agents for the French meat dealers.
Its the biggest load of senseless crap I have heard apart from when GTF called rescuing Dressed up dealing!!!!
The two of you have absolutely no idea what the point of buying and selling is all about have you??
I will make it simple for the pea brained amongst us.
1, You buy horses from the cheapest source, with the least added on expenses
2, You sell it for the biggest profit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly what the French Farmers are doing although they have almost the perfect business. They can buy any old horse regardless of condition as the meat price is based on weight and not whether the horse is sound. The forums do the advertising which is purely based on how cute the horse looks in a photo. A well meaning English person pays money to buy the horse sight unseen, pays the money and the horse is removed to a 'safe haven'.
The farmer then has the money to go and buy another horse and the process starts again. The good news for the farmer is that if the replacement horse is not 'rescued' it can go on the next lorry to the slaughterhouse. There is a demand for horse meat which will be satisfied regardless of how many are ''rescued'.
IN the meantime the 'rescued' horse having spent time in the 'safe haven' eventually makes it back to the UK for the new owner to discover exactly what they have bought. They have no come back as they would buying from the UK where dealers are covered by the Sale of Goods act. If they are lucky the horse doesn't have any terrible deformities, illness or behavioural issues. Some will stay in the same home, others as we know get sold on and lost to the system.
The forums are just agents for the French meat dealers.
JM07
Well-Known Member
ah...so France doesn't have Dealers..or middlemen.
what a wonderful place.
what a wonderful place.
pricklyflower
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Why oh why would they come over here to France to pay the farmers top prices and transport costs to take them all the way back to the UK???
[/ QUOTE ]
But they don't do they? They get the poor mugs who end up "rescuing" these horses to pay for the transport costs so their profit is even bigger or am I missing something here?
Why oh why would they come over here to France to pay the farmers top prices and transport costs to take them all the way back to the UK???
[/ QUOTE ]
But they don't do they? They get the poor mugs who end up "rescuing" these horses to pay for the transport costs so their profit is even bigger or am I missing something here?
noir
Member
Yes you are missing something here .
A BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
A BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
noir
Member
JM07.
Very disappointed!!!!
Is that all you could come back with?
Even you are running out of Puff!
Must admit this whole subject has been thrashed over and over to death .
Very disappointed!!!!
Is that all you could come back with?
Even you are running out of Puff!
Must admit this whole subject has been thrashed over and over to death .
Happy Horse
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
JM07.
Very disappointed!!!!
Is that all you could come back with?
Even you are running out of Puff!
Must admit this whole subject has been thrashed over and over to death .
[/ QUOTE ]
And it seems like you are in a minority of one who thinks that the process is doing anyone any good other than the meat farmers.
JM07.
Very disappointed!!!!
Is that all you could come back with?
Even you are running out of Puff!
Must admit this whole subject has been thrashed over and over to death .
[/ QUOTE ]
And it seems like you are in a minority of one who thinks that the process is doing anyone any good other than the meat farmers.