Another hoof thread.. Sorry!

[GrumpyHero]

To all of those clued up hoof people out there, your opinions on this horses feet would be greatly appreciated!
He's booked in for the farrier next monday (new farrier)

To cut a long story short, he over reaches and has pulled the same shoe twice in 4 weeks so effectively been re shod 3 times ... so his off fore is pretty cracked/crap at the moment.

I couldnt get a farrier down for a week the second time he pulled it, then one i didn't know was down and said he'd put a shoe on for me, he's been lame since then and only just stopped nodding in trot (about 2 weeks since he was re shod.. approaching three, however i think he may have cut his toe too short and maybe nailed the shoe too tightly? thats what others have said to me)
Please don't shoot me for not calling the vet, i'd say he was 1/2 tenths lame in trot only and i've been away on holiday and ive only just got back.

Anyway i've got some pictures, albeit they arent the best ill try and take some better ones tonight!

Near fore

Off fore .. this is the shoe done by the second farrier approx 2 weeks ago

near fore again

off fore

near fore behind view

off fore behind

near hind

near hind

not a helpful photo really

I've only had this boy coming up to 2 months (he's on full loan) and hes an absolute star in everyway so i'd love to be able to improve the foot situation as i want to keep him!
I currently feed him a handful of happy hoof with biotin and seaweed.

Any suggestions/comments are welcome.
Please don't be too harsh as he isn't mine and i honestly am trying my best with him

 

[ellie11987]

Just my 2 pence worth as I'm not a major expert -

The quickest and most effective way to improve hoof health and prevent shoes being thrown is to go barefoot IMO. I've noticed he is on loan, it might be worth a chat with the owner first to see if they are okay with it but I'd ask the farrier if it is an option. This doesn't have to be a long term thing, 6-9 months out of shoes to grow a new hoof then re-shoe if you want to and have a break from shoes a few months out of the year. His frogs look contracted and his heels a little low to me, only way to correct this is taking the shoes off.

Whether you decide to take the shoes off or not, diet is very important. I do not like seaweed as the minerals are not balanced to the UK's grazing and can cause other problems, I have never seen an improvement in hoof health with it. Also, the body can produce enough biotin for itself. I'd use fast fibre, pro balance + from progressive earth and 1/2 mug of micronised linseed.

 

[GrumpyHero]

Thanks for the reply Ellie Will have a look into the fast fibre etc, do you think muzzling him when he is turned out would help? as in reducing sugar intake etc.. I'd keep him in but all of the other horses are turned out and he's not happy in on his own, he just boxwalks and generally trashes his stable.

I have spoken to his owner about barefoot - she said she had tried to take the fronts off before and he ended up with abscesses and was on box rest for weeks. I would obviously need the hoof boots so would have to discuss costs etc with owner.

 

[ellie11987]

Thanks for the reply Ellie Will have a look into the fast fibre etc, do you think muzzling him when he is turned out would help? as in reducing sugar intake etc.. I'd keep him in but all of the other horses are turned out and he's not happy in on his own, he just boxwalks and generally trashes his stable.

I have spoken to his owner about barefoot - she said she had tried to take the fronts off before and he ended up with abscesses and was on box rest for weeks. I would obviously need the hoof boots so would have to discuss costs etc with owner.

If you took the shoes off, I'd try him without a muzzle to start but it is always an option. Just take it off at night. Mine has to be kept off the grass completely during the day but others cope just fine so its just finding what works for your horse. Mag ox and brewers yeast can also help with footiness.

I would have thought the bf route failed first time around as the diet/turnout/exercise/hoof hygiene was not quite right. Boots are great to help transition combined with conditioning work on roads. You want to frog to beef up that will come with work, but an uncomfortable horse won't move so they're your best bet. I love my Cavallo Simple boots personally

 

[GrumpyHero]

Im definitely having a serious think about the barefoot route.
I'll let him be re-shod on monday and then make the decision the next time he is due to take the shoes off (will discuss with his owner)

In the mean time i will try and sort his diet out and prepare him for possibly going shoeless! Which means measuring for boots etc .. aahhh.

I hope he comes right, will just have to see how he goes i suppose.

What would you recommend in light of hoof hygiene? apart from the obvious picking feet out every day? He can be turned out 24/7 during summer, we do have roads i could ride on but that means i have to go over a stony track so im not sure how i would start to condition his feet without boots?

 

[ellie11987]

By hoof hygiene I mean thrush - a thrushy horse won't want to walk heel first and can make them more sore. Just give them a scrub with some hoof disinfectant and keep on top of it. Hack as normal in boots, but try walking in hand for short walks as often as you can building it up. This is my route at the moment and its going well (TB by the way ) Good luck.

EDIT: try looking at The Natural Hoof on Facebook and the website. This is Julie Bailey's website, my barefoot trimmer.

 

[GrumpyHero]

My barefoot plans have been shot down by everyone at the farm tonight! Haha basically everyone has said 'he won't go barefoot keep his shoes on' 'he wouldnt cope there's no point' blah blah blah.

I really want to try it i think he deserves having nice feet! I'm going to buy some of that pro balance stuff you mentioned i think! I took some more photos of his feet tonight.
His near hind has developed a large chip/crack around the edge im hoping due to try dry weather and that he's overdue a farrier visit (roll on monday!)

off fore

near fore (id say this is the most 'deformed' its awful)

off hind (they both look the same bar the crack in his other hoof)

off fore

near hind

off hind

arghhh why are his feet so god damn awful!!!

 

[Clava]

I would go barefoot, he has really underrun heels and the hoof is just screaming to be allowed to grow the shape it should be. Get the diet right, a good supplement and the support of a good trimmer and maybe some hoofboots just in case.

 

[ellie11987]

off fore

near fore (id say this is the most 'deformed' its awful)

Honesty, these hooves are worse than I thought seeing these pictures Very underrun heels, too long in the toe, contracted frogs. I've been through this first hand (my TB's feet were worse than this!) and they are never going to improve without shoes. I'm in the Bolton area and use Julie Bailey, she might cover your area? I'd sack the farrier, anyone who lets feet get like that without coming up with alternative shouldn't be working! I've got some pictures of my mares shod hooves and I can get some pictures of her's now a few months into being barefoot today and I'll pop them on tonight to show you. They are similar to yours and you can see the visible angle change where the new connection has come through. Honestly I was shot down like mad for doing it and called cruel ect but at the end of the day, my horse isn't the one being fitted with heart bars and remedial shoeing because its being diagnosed with navicular and tendon strains ect Its funnny, the horses that need shoes the most are actually the most desperate to get out of them.

Have a look at this album from Julies client: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.513683862012972.1073741840.505494489498576&type=3

 

[LittleBlackMule]

The hinds really don't look bad at all, just a bit long which is probably why one has started cracking.

But the fronts.. oh dear. No shoe is going to fix those.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Needing over-reach boots on when in the field and repeatedly pulling shoes off are big red flags that the hoof balance is wrong. The latest side on photos show that this is indeed the case here.

The toes are very long and the heels are very under-run (and placement of the shoes is encouraging the toes to get longer and the heels to get more under-run ) and the breakover has been completely altered due to the poor hoof balance - no wonder he's pulling shoes.

I would not shoe this horse if you paid me.

Look at the Rockley Farm blog and learn that there is hope - his hooves can improve. http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[Meowy Catkin]

My barefoot plans have been shot down by everyone at the farm tonight! Haha basically everyone has said 'he won't go barefoot keep his shoes on' 'he wouldnt cope there's no point' blah blah blah.

This isn't an uncommon attitude, however they are wrong.

Going BF/unshod isn't always smooth going to begin with and the horse might need hoof boots for a while. You might need to overhaul his feeding and only walk him in-hand to begin with. Once his hooves improve, it will all be worth it and the horse will have a far happier future. No foot, no horse is a very true saying.

 

[putasocinit]

overreaching, hind toes are too long so catching the foot in front, (also are you riding him held together too much so that he is stepping on himself) they have a big flare and due to long toe underrun heels, so get farrier to get those hind toes back and a good tidy up all around, leaving the heels alone.

As the front has been replaced a few times difficult to say as some of the hoof has come off with the last shoe pull, but the shoeing is neat and tidy but sadly been badly shod/trimmed over time and toes have got long which has caused underrun heels e.g. the heel collapses because the foot grows in a tubular way when they are left to grow long. Need to keep uptodate with shoeing/trimming and dont let them get long.

 

[GrumpyHero]

I mainly hack him so no don't ride holding him together, usually walk on a long ish rein only take up a true contact for trot and canter work, even then i don't try and pull him into a false frame.

Ellie has recommended a trimmer to me, and a lady at my farm has told me to use the same one! So will be giving her a call to see if she can come out and see him and give me any tips before i take his shoes off
So i have found one person on the yard who supports me! She agreed she cannot see him improving in shoes and can only see them deteriorating.

LBM - a friend at the yard told me his hinds look 'almost lami' yesterday!

What does everyone think of his hinds? I can provide solar shots of those if i haven't already (i forget)

 

[Meowy Catkin]

overreaching, hind toes are too long so catching the foot in front, (also are you riding him held together too much so that he is stepping on himself) they have a big flare and due to long toe underrun heels, so get farrier to get those hind toes back and a good tidy up all around, leaving the heels alone.

As the front has been replaced a few times difficult to say as some of the hoof has come off with the last shoe pull, but the shoeing is neat and tidy but sadly been badly shod/trimmed over time and toes have got long which has caused underrun heels e.g. the heel collapses because the foot grows in a tubular way when they are left to grow long. Need to keep uptodate with shoeing/trimming and dont let them get long.

I think that you wrote this without looking at the new side on photos.

The over-reaching/shoe pulling is due to the terribly long toes on the front hooves. Taking the toes back on the hinds wont change the delayed breakover on the fronts which is the cause of the problem.

Sadly it is also possible to have long toes and under-run heels develop on hooves that are reshod regularly (even every 4 weeks) if the farrier does not balance the hoof correctly and using a shoe that doesn't support the heel (in an attempt to prevent shoe pulling) often contributes to the long toe under-run heels of the hooves.

The hooves can be helped to recover far, far quicker without shoes.

 

[LittleBlackMule]

LBM - a friend at the yard told me his hinds look 'almost lami' yesterday!

So what did they say about the fronts then?? Probably thinks they are okay just because they are shod..

Don't worry about the hinds, they are certainly far healthier than the fronts.

As well as the Rockley blog already recommended, have a look through this website, and in particular this page on rehabilitating problem feet, as it has lots of photos that will help show you what shape hoof you are aiming for. Your boy's fronts have a lot in common with some of the 'before' photos!

http://www.hoofrehab.com/rehabilitations1.htm

 

[GrumpyHero]

Hi guys just a little update.
The beast had his shoes done today by a new farrier - i think he's done a good job considering the state of his feet. Still hoping to get the shoes off next time round!

Took a few pics to show the difference -

Off Fore

Near Fore

Near Hind - This developed quite a large crack in it about 5 days ago and looks tonnes better now

Off Hind

Whats better is he isn't lame this time he was lame for almost 2 weeks after he had his shoe put back on last time! Even got to have a ride!

Got the fatty a muzzle aswell as he's getting a little too round for my liking! He is not impressed!

Would like to see what you all think about the new shoes - still hopefully going barefoot but i think it's definitely an improvement.

 

[ellie11987]

Aw he looks gorgeous! Did the farrier have anything to say about his feet? Glad you still want to go BF - it's the way forward for these TB's Just establish a good diet and get some hoof boots and your good to go

 

[GrumpyHero]

He said he is very flat footed! And asked me who had shod him previously .. i told him and he said 'im not even going to say anything' which i think proves that previous farrier is CR*P!

He also said 'i'd like to see him try and get these shoes off!' so hopefully we'll have no more shoe pulling this time round

Going to order some pro balance + when i get paid (hurry up payday!) and also buy some fast fiber to replace happy hoof as i've heard its actually quite sugary?
Though i am feeling like the wicked stepmother at the moment having put the muzzle on him!

 

[ellie11987]

He said he is very flat footed! And asked me who had shod him previously .. i told him and he said 'im not even going to say anything' which i think proves that previous farrier is CR*P!

He also said 'i'd like to see him try and get these shoes off!' so hopefully we'll have no more shoe pulling this time round

Going to order some pro balance + when i get paid (hurry up payday!) and also buy some fast fiber to replace happy hoof as i've heard its actually quite sugary?
Though i am feeling like the wicked stepmother at the moment having put the muzzle on him!

My TB was called 'flat footed' - until I went BF LOL that's what happened to me! I told someone who shod her and they just looked at me in a 'oh no' sort of way Even if no shoes are pulled off, please consider going BF because as I found out, it's not all about if shoes stay on or not.

I have to use a small handful of happy hoof to get fussy to eat her speedibeet but yes, ff is miles better Good luck!!! x