Another "how much" question (sorry!)

[Cowpony]

So.........as you may know, I've got a loan pony as well as my own. I've been talking to the loan pony's owner and she's decided she would like to sell her to me, and I'd like to buy her. We need to agree on a price, so I need the collective HHF hive mind please.

She's about 14hh, 11 years old and until I took her on about 10 months ago she was a kids' allrounder. Since then I've worked to sort out various issues and she is currently being treated for ulcers, which seems to be working and she's a much nicer person (used to want to kill me in the field, but hasn't exhibited this behaviour for the last month). Personally I wouldn't want to sell her as a kids pony due to the aggression. She's incredibly pretty, but isn't pure bred so isn't going to be a show pony.

We've recently got her first BD points at Prelim and she's clearly got some talent for dressage, although she's not the most forward and that's a work in progress. She also jumps and loves cross country at a low level. She hacks in company. My interest is dressage so that seems to suit us both.

She's previously broken her splint bone and is still not really coming through on that leg, although it's improving. Her hind feet both point outwards, but improve with work.

Her owner has said that home is more important than money, and loves the way I care for the pony. She has also said that I've achieved a lot with her and therefore is factoring in the improvement I've added and isn't looking to ask me to pay for that.

So we both want to be fair with each other, which is lovely, but I don't want to short-change her. My gut feeling is £8K, but prices are so mad at the moment I may be wildly under-estimating. I've never paid more than £2K for a horse before!

Please help. What do I offer to be fair to us both?

 

[Bellaboo18]

Well I think you'd be crazy to offer 8k for a pony that's currently being treated for ulcers.
No wonder she isn't forward, she's got ulcers.
4k max.
She sounds like the start of vets bills.

 

[Nasicus]

Taking off the rose-tinted goggles of ownership:
8k for a pony with ulcers, a tendency towards aggression, doesn't hack out alone (inferring from your comment about hacking in company) a dodgy leg and toed out hinds?
I mean this in the kindest way I can, but are you actually mad?

 

[Cowpony]

Ahhhhh, ok, so maybe I'm over-estimating. She may hack out alone, I just haven't done it. I'm just going on other threads where people have said that a sane all-rounder is worth more than £10K.

 

[Fred66]

Ask the owner what she thinks is reasonable, and then decide whether you think it’s right or not.

 

[Cowpony]

I've asked her and she has no clue either!

 

[Snow Falcon]

Any idea what led to the ulcers? They can be caused by pain elsewhere. A previously fractured splint bone and potentially weak through hocks causing issues with feet. I think you'd be worth a full vet investigation/vetting before agreeing a price.

 

[SOS]

Ahhhhh, ok, so maybe I'm over-estimating. She may hack out alone, I just haven't done it. I'm just going on other threads where people have said that a sane all-rounder is worth more than £10K.

*perhaps a sane, sound, 16hh+ allrounder is 10k or more currently.

14hh ponies don’t fetch loads as there is a limited market. The horse “isn’t stepping through” which sounds like lameness… ulcers also indicate potential pain and lameness… old injuries (splint fracture) and conformation (hind feet?) could lead to lameness…

Sounds like a problem waiting to happen/happening!

If you do buy this pony please get a five stage vetting. Without any of the lameness/pain/ulcer/confirmation problems I’d say the pony is worth 4-5k.

 

[TheSubwayDino]

Ahhhhh, ok, so maybe I'm over-estimating. She may hack out alone, I just haven't done it. I'm just going on other threads where people have said that a sane all-rounder is worth more than £10K.

Certainly but with their current medical issues or previous history, the price would knock it down. I personally wouldn't pay 8k or more for it but if it was an all-rounder with no issues but see what the owner says!

 

[nikicb]

When you say she is getting points at prelim and if you want something to do dressage with, I guess it depends on what her scores are. Low 60s, I wouldn't consider paying half that much for her. with all the other issues. If she is getting high 60s that's a whole different question.

 

[Lady Tinseltime]

Any idea what led to the ulcers? They can be caused by pain elsewhere. A previously fractured splint bone and potentially weak through hocks causing issues with feet. I think you'd be worth a full vet investigation/vetting before agreeing a price.

I agree - think you should actually get her vetted(or a complete veterinary investigation) before you start to work out a price. A slightly unsound horse will be much less than a sound one

 

[05jackd]

If it Helps I have just sold a 14hh 5 year old. With no vices or medical problems who does hack alone for £3.5k.

 

[Melody Grey]

Underneath all of the great work you’ve done, there is an aggressive pony with physical issues which won’t be cheap to resolve and has a limited market as not child friendly and doesn’t hack (if I’ve interpreted that right?)

for me, that’s just cause to be in the project category -£2k?
You’re taking a punt on the ulcers being treatable/ manageable, they may not be.

Minus the ulcers and aggression with an extra hand or two would be a different ball game.

 

[AmyMay]

£2k tops (subject to vetting)

 

[J&S]

You must REALLY like her to think of £8K! I think Amymay is much nearer the price.

 

[I'm Dun]

Yup 2k, and as someone who never vets horses, this is one I would want vetting!

 

[Cowpony]

Thank you all for your replies, that's been really helpful. I probably haven't painted her in the best light, in an effort not to write an essay! I've been treating the ulcers over the last couple of months, and instilling some manners/respect through groundwork, and the aggressive behaviour has stopped for the last month. She still pulls a few faces and doesn't like other horses near her so I don't want to say she's cured yet, but she's well on the way. If the ulcers reoccur she'd probably revert though. When she's not in pain she has the softest eye, which is why I persevered with her and didn't end the loan early. She's now becoming the horse she should be. I also had a wolf tooth removed, found a bit she likes and got some saddles that fit, so any of that could have been the cause of the pain. It could be the splint bone though, so vetting is a good suggestion.

I said she hacks in company simply because hacking isn't really my thing, so I haven't taken her out alone. But that's easily testable.

My dressage coach thinks she is very talented, just doesn't use her body correctly yet, but that is improving too. In our last test we got roughly 50:50 7s and 6.5s, just let down when she broke in the canter and I went wrong.

And yes, I have been viewing her as a project. I guess she's an unfinished project in my eyes, as I'd like to get her out to more BD competitions (we've only been out 3 times so far), improve the scores and go up a level.

And yes, thank you for the suggestion of a vetting. I was going to do that in any case, but you have put it front of mind to get it done sooner rather than later.

 

[BeansNsausages]

The problem is, at the level you are currently working at, the pony may be okay. But it's very questionable if she would stand up to harder, more advanced work.

Given the history and existing problems, I would say 3k was being very generous.

 

[SO1]

This is what you can get for 5k.

https://www.nfed.co.uk/cgi-bin/clas...lay_db_button=on&db_id=172687&query=retrieval

If you have 8K to spend and are serious about dressage you can get something more suitable I think.

I don't think this pony without a competition record and with some issues is worth more than 4K.

 

[gallopingby]

The ‘how much would you pay’ posts are always interesting, l suspect because anyone can have a bash at them and maybe considers they would be prepared to pay (taking into account how much money they would have to spend). If you’ve had the pony on loan / on trial even for a while you’ll hopefully have caused some improvements equally you‘ll be aware of the potential. Whatever people may think horse prices gave risen to a more realistic value and hopefully the days of the 2k pony are over. Who can breed and educate a horse for 2k? It would be sensible to have a 5 stage vetting carried out if you’re thinking of buying but realistically 6-8k is a reasonable price for a 14.2 with the potential to go up the dressage ladder. Do you peeps know how much a 14.2 dressage pony with some form costs?!!!

 

[SEL]

I've been hunting in the current market and if she'd pass a 5 stage vetting then around £6k.

 

[Bellaboo18]

The ‘how much would you pay’ posts are always interesting, l suspect because anyone can have a bash at them and maybe considers they would be prepared to pay (taking into account how much money they would have to spend). If you’ve had the pony on loan / on trial even for a while you’ll hopefully have caused some improvements equally you‘ll be aware of the potential. Whatever people may think horse prices gave risen to a more realistic value and hopefully the days of the 2k pony are over. Who can breed and educate a horse for 2k? It would be sensible to have a 5 stage vetting carried out if you’re thinking of buying but realistically 6-8k is a reasonable price for a 14.2 with the potential to go up the dressage ladder. Do you peeps know how much a 14.2 dressage pony with some form costs?!!!

She's not 14.2, she's 14hh.
Lame horses will always be worth very little as people tend to buy horses to ride ?
Do you understand the link between ulcers and pain?
I think us peeps can see the potential problems with this pony more than the potential for progression.

 

[fankino04]

Just to add, you are talking about all the improvements you have made but the owner has said she doesn't expect you to pay for the work you have done so you really need to be asking what was the horse worth when they came to you with ALL their issues.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I thought about 2k as well especially as she has stated home is more important than price seriously don't offer 8K thats just mental she is definitely not worth that.

 

[dreamcometrue]

You know her well and you want to buy her so I'm guessing you like her a lot despite her little ways. She also has lots of positive points as she suits your needs and the activities you want to do. I would offer £3k and be prepared to go up to £4k. x

 

[Cowpony]

Thanks everybody. I am quite fond of her, in spite of all the challenging behaviour! But I will get her vetted and we'll see where we go from there.

 

[SO1]

8K would buy a nice connemara or part bred with no quirks. How much potential does your instructor see are we talking about up to elementary or being seriously competitive at higher levels?

Dressage can be hard on the legs and body so her worth as potential top level dressage pony will be reduced if she has conformation issues and previous injuries and does not have great movement or does not have the temperament to be a child's pony.

https://www.horsequest.co.uk/3/poni.../237/dressage-ponies-unaffiliated-/-pc?page=6

 

[ihatework]

First I’d get her vetted.
The owner is obviously motivated to sell to you and isn’t primarily finance driven. There are enough ‘buts’ that I think you shouldn’t be looking to pay too much. I’d say between 2-5 depending on what the vetting shows

 

[I'm Dun]

The ‘how much would you pay’ posts are always interesting, l suspect because anyone can have a bash at them and maybe considers they would be prepared to pay (taking into account how much money they would have to spend). If you’ve had the pony on loan / on trial even for a while you’ll hopefully have caused some improvements equally you‘ll be aware of the potential. Whatever people may think horse prices gave risen to a more realistic value and hopefully the days of the 2k pony are over. Who can breed and educate a horse for 2k? It would be sensible to have a 5 stage vetting carried out if you’re thinking of buying but realistically 6-8k is a reasonable price for a 14.2 with the potential to go up the dressage ladder. Do you peeps know how much a 14.2 dressage pony with some form costs?!!!

Dressage form for a true dressage/sports pony is more than an average score at prelim/novice.

 

[SO1]

I also would not buy a pony that was aggressive towards humans in a field as it could really limit where you could keep her if you don't have your own land. You would have to be very careful that other liveries did not approach her in the field and it could cause problems if someone needed to catch her in an emergency situation.