Another Mudfever Q!

TarrSteps said:
From a vet. . . . Mudfever is Dermatophilus congolensis which is a bacteria. No fungus involved.

I have some experience with the fungal infection horses often get in Florida but it's nothing like mud fever.

I guess Nizoral might work because of another ingredient or just because it's a milder cleaning agent than Hibiscrub or similar. A rehab yard I worked for always washed legs with a weak solution of Head & Shoulders, although it's impossible to tell how well it worked as maybe they wouldn't have had a problem no matter what.

I've found the feeding thing very interesting but I guess it makes sense - the healthier the horse is, the more it can resist any assault
Click to expand...

We have this same pointless discussion every year - Mudfever is fungal IT IS NOT bacterial!!! Dermatophilus congolensis is a secondary infection - the bacteria is found in the soil world over.

As I have said many times vets rarely ever get a case that has just started - they see it after the owner has tried every treatment they have heard about and have usually spent several painful hours picking off the scabs. These scabs are not even true scabs (platelets and fibrin) but just lymph that has oozed through the skin and congealed around the hairs sticking them together. The skin at this point is not actually broken - pick the scabs off, you pull hair out by its roots, the skin breaks and bleeds and infection gets in.

Mudfever without picking at the scabs and treated promptly with Nizoral goes rapidly!

Mudefever picked at contracts Dermatophilus congolensis. Nizoral will still destroy the fungus but horse may now need antibiotics to stem the bacterial infection

The only active ingredient in Nizoral is Ketaconisol an anti fungal!

I have vets both here and in NZ and the UK recommending it to clients now as IT WORKS!

I've now spent 7 years using it to treat Mudfever and rain scald on many horses and EVERY time Nizoral is used it is gone rapidly.
 
siennamum said:
I would agree with people who say don't use pig oil. I also would say don't use sudocreme, sulphur, or baby oil. My gelding had persistent 'mud fever' which was vascilitis, and I have a horrible feeling that he was allergic also to mineral oils, like in sudocreme, pig oil and baby oil.

The only thing which I use on his leg now is olive oil. I have healthcare professional friends who think baby oil, and the like are terrible & harsh, like wise aqueous cream, which is horrible stuff.

I really would not be putting lots of different things on the leg. I would ask the vet for fuciderm or similar prior to bringing in & then turn out with olive oil on leg. You could probably get a prescription for anti B's & an anti flam, without a vet visit.
Click to expand...

You say your has persistent Mudfever - have you looked at his diet - is he getting Lucerne (Alfalfa) in his feeds or does his grazing have a high percentage of clovers? Some horses develop photosensitisation rashes from these Legumes. Take them off these and the mudfever symptoms go.

In addition ensuring that you are supplementing with Copper and Zinc to help strengthen the skin
 
I've never had any luck with Nizoral!

Hibiscrub solution with warm water, lather up on legs, leave for 15 minutes.
Thoroughly hose with cold water.

Most importantly, LEAVE HORSE IN - as soon as they go back out without it being cleared up it will just get worse!
 
montanna said:
I've never had any luck with Nizoral!

Hibiscrub solution with warm water, lather up on legs, leave for 15 minutes.
Thoroughly hose with cold water.

Most importantly, LEAVE HORSE IN - as soon as they go back out without it being cleared up it will just get worse!
Click to expand...

Thats unfortunate, and very unusual - maybe your is not true mudfever but photosensitisation - see above.
 
We do have clover in one of our fields. I have stripped the horse's diet back to hay & grass, he also gets salt, which helps. I think his problem now is mainly dealing with the skin damage which years of misdiagnosis & varied treatments has caused. It's why I am so leery of internet diagnosis and experimenting with lots of home remedies.
 
So what this really proves is different people have different success with different methods. And, quite likely, what we are all calling 'mud fever' is not always the same thing.

Tnavas, could you get the name of the fungus, please. I'm curious to read up now.
 
At the risk of sounding boring, I don't put anything on the legs, I turn out in very muddy fields every day, have had 10 horses in the last 3 years an all fed mineral balanced low sugar diet and no mud fever. As another 'side effect' of the mineral balanced diet, I had a horse with sweet itch that completely stopped itching and was able to be turned out in midgy times and absolutely no rubbing.
 
Last edited:
As far as I know from 15yrs working in the field and from reading many published papers the main culprit is undeniably D. congolensis. There are other organisms involved some of which may be yeasts and fungi, others staphs and streps, but having cultured hundreds of samples from cases at all stages of infection I have not found fungal organisms to be sufficiently reliably present to suspect they are a causative agent.

Shall we just say that it's a multifactorial aetiology and leave it at that? To be honest the more blinkered and dogmatic people are about something the less inclined I am to take their viewpoint seriously. As has been quoted elsewhere this morning 'the plural of anecdote is not data'.
 
Gamebird said:
As far as I know from 15yrs working in the field and from reading many published papers the main culprit is undeniably D. congolensis. There are other organisms involved some of which may be yeasts and fungi, others staphs and streps, but having cultured hundreds of samples from cases at all stages of infection I have not found fungal organisms to be sufficiently reliably present to suspect they are a causative agent.

Shall we just say that it's a multifactorial aetiology and leave it at that? To be honest the more blinkered and dogmatic people are about something the less inclined I am to take their viewpoint seriously. As has been quoted elsewhere this morning 'the plural of anecdote is not data'.
Click to expand...

While you say you have worked with Mudfever in all stages, have you arrived at the paddock and seen the tell tale signs of a brand new attack - the tender area with hair standing up in a tuft, glued together by lymph. My vet admits that she has never seen a Mudfever attack on its first day.

Where I live in NZ the weather is often humid and fungus thrives in these conditions. I get 'mudfever' on my scalp, my scalp becomes extremely itchy, tender in the affected areas and produces crusty, scabs. My horse gets the exact same symptoms when she gets rain scald.

Wash my hair with Nizoral and the symptoms go away. Wash my horse with Nizoral and her symptoms go away.

Mudfever behaves just like a fungus - the initial patch starts to clear and then it breaks out beyond the circumference. Fairy circles, same behaviour as ringworm. This is where Nizoral works so well, wash well beyond the initial patch and it doesn't spread.

I have seen so many treatments over the past 27 years, bleach, napisan, washing up liquid and hacksaw blade, poulticing with cling film, iodine, Vaseline, pig oil and sulphur, and none of these have worked like Nizoral does.

The active ingredient is Ketaconisol - a fungaside
 
Last edited:
Wow this is all very intersting and havent read it all in great detail because am at work, thought this thread died two pages ago tbh!

The vet saw this before it had got too far along and i hadnt picked any scabs off, but had put creams on to re-hydrate the skin. When the vet came out she gave me some cream to put on which was Udder Cream/Sulpher and Penecillin followed her advise, didnt pick scabs off left cream on with cling film for 20 mins took cling film off and washed the legs and all scabs came off and havent come back, still applied cream every day untill it ran out - it was the fact that one lag was still massive nearly a week after all the scabs had gone, vet has now issued some oral anti'bs which should hopefully sort out the infection that seems to be presenting. - those of you in the know what would you have done differently?

Feed wise its pretty boring mix of good hay and hayledge, Grass, hifi light or origional and a handful of mix or nuts and always has a salt lick in her stable what would you be feeding for a balanced mineral diet?
 
LeannePip said:
Wow this is all very intersting and havent read it all in great detail because am at work, thought this thread died two pages ago tbh!

The vet saw this before it had got too far along and i hadnt picked any scabs off, but had put creams on to re-hydrate the skin. When the vet came out she gave me some cream to put on which was Udder Cream/Sulpher and Penecillin followed her advise, didnt pick scabs off left cream on with cling film for 20 mins took cling film off and washed the legs and all scabs came off and havent come back, still applied cream every day untill it ran out - it was the fact that one lag was still massive nearly a week after all the scabs had gone, vet has now issued some oral anti'bs which should hopefully sort out the infection that seems to be presenting. - those of you in the know what would you have done differently?

Feed wise its pretty boring mix of good hay and hayledge, Grass, hifi light or origional and a handful of mix or nuts and always has a salt lick in her stable what would you be feeding for a balanced mineral diet?
Click to expand...

Check the labels on your general supplement and go for the one with the highest percentage of Zinc and Copper.
 
Tnavas - interesting you say that about the 'ring' effect. I had my vet out to day 1 mud fever with my lad, as I realised I had forgotten to order more Alamycin, and my vet explicitly said that that ring pattern was typical of bacterial mud fever in the early stage. He also recommends treatment with Alamycin (which is not licensed for horses so shhh), which contains oxytetracycline, an antibiotic, not an anti fungal. It clears up early signs of mud fever in a day. Yes, slap on the wrist for going straight to antibs, but my lad has a history of horrific mud fever so I don't let it take hold these days.

Mudfever is accepted scientifically as being bacterial, but can have dermatophytes (fungal organisms) present as well. Quite a lot of different infections come under the term of mud fever, however true mud fever is bacterial. I would suspect maybe what you are encountering isn't true mud fever? Especially being in NZ, you may well be experiencing something completely different.
 
khalswitz said:
Tnavas - interesting you say that about the 'ring' effect. I had my vet out to day 1 mud fever with my lad, as I realised I had forgotten to order more Alamycin, and my vet explicitly said that that ring pattern was typical of bacterial mud fever in the early stage. He also recommends treatment with Alamycin (which is not licensed for horses so shhh), which contains oxytetracycline, an antibiotic, not an anti fungal. It clears up early signs of mud fever in a day. Yes, slap on the wrist for going straight to antibs, but my lad has a history of horrific mud fever so I don't let it take hold these days.

Mudfever is accepted scientifically as being bacterial, but can have dermatophytes (fungal organisms) present as well. Quite a lot of different infections come under the term of mud fever, however true mud fever is bacterial. I would suspect maybe what you are encountering isn't true mud fever? Especially being in NZ, you may well be experiencing something completely different.
Click to expand...

Definitely real as you can get Mudfever - I've dealt with it in the UK as well before I emigrated to New Zealand. The fact that I have vets using Nizoral successfully in several countries really makes me believe the initial infection is fungal
 
Tnavas said:
Definitely real as you can get Mudfever - I've dealt with it in the UK as well before I emigrated to New Zealand. The fact that I have vets using Nizoral successfully in several countries really makes me believe the initial infection is fungal
Click to expand...

Just did a quick read up on Nizoral - contains ketoconazole, which as well as being an anti fungal, is also used topically to treat dermatitis: both contact dermatitis (often caused by photosensitisation) or seborrhoeic dermatitis, which is an inflammatory reaction due to reduced resistance to yeast type fungal organisms, and shows signs of redness, swelling, crusting and weeping skin and sebaceous glands, similar signs to classical bacterial mud fever but obviously fungus related.

Have a read on wikipedia for the difference between dermatitis and the group of conditions that get mixed together as mud fever. Makes very interesting reading.
 
Pro hoof from progressive earth on ebay or the forage plus winter balancers from forageplus.co.uk are both very good.

You need to look for a supplement with no extra iron, in addition to the good copper/zinc levels suggested above.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top