Another Napping thread.. Sorry :)

[shmoo]

Is it possible to get over napping by just waiting it out. I have, very unfortunately landed up with a napper - I'm not experienced in this at all - first hack I just waited for 20 - 25 mins and he started moving again. 2nd hack I had to come back as it was a Saturday morning and the traffic was just too heavy. We made it to a quiet lane the previous time. Now I know for sure I can pick another quiet lane, and I am patient enough to sit there, but will it be enough or will I need professional help.

He doesn't really do anything, well he hasn't yet. Just stops.

I have tried circling both ways on tight rein to confuse him, then heading off in my original direction and that didn't work. Reversing, as he was willing to walk backwards.

Nothing else sprang to mind, as I said I haven't had a nappy horse before. I don't know if its a confidence thing (me with him, him with me, him with the world) or being naughty.

I need a lot more leg with this one, which I am doing but even anticipating the stop I couldn't prevent it.

Any advice?

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I think it really depends on the individual horse and why it's napping.

H can be nappy at times. If he's unsure of something and has ground to a halt and is being looky I'll often give him a moment to take it all in before firmly asking him to walk on. The same goes for if he's running backwards. If I put my leg on whilst he's going backwards it just makes him run back faster so I tend to sit quietly until he's lost momentum and then ask for him to go forwards.

In all other scenarios I ask him firmly to walk on with my leg and voice as soon as I feel him hesitating. If he backs off when these aids are used I follow it up with a tap of the whip and a firmer "walk on". As soon as he's moving forward I give him lots of praise, neck pats and "good boy" to positively reinforce the idea that it's better to move forward like he's asked than nap.

To a certain degree it's all about timing and more importantly consistency, as the more you "win" these battles the less you'll find the horse bothers to try it on. The trouble with sitting it out is that unless you've got unlimited time there will always be times when you'll have to call it quits and return home which means the horse knows if it refuses to move for long enough it'll get to go home and thus the problem gets worse.

 

[littleshetland]

Well - waiting it out is one way of dealing with it, and can occasionally be successful, but I think the answer to your problem depends on how confidant and experienced a rider you are. If the horse does not go forward from your leg aids, he must learn that he MUST go forward off your leg. Either get someone more experienced to get him through this, or do it yourself buy backing up your leg with a riding crop or schooling whip. It's quite important that you nip this in the bud fairly quickly or it's possible it could get a lot worse. If a horse isn't obedient to your leg aids, life can get very difficult!

How old and experienced is the horse? How experienced are you? Is there anyone experienced around who could help you through this - perhaps some riding lesson...?

 

[HHO admin]

You might find this piece by H&H blogger Jason Webb helpful. Hope you manage to get this sorted out.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/blog/jason-webb-coping-rearing-horse-422075

 

[shmoo]

Hi, I'm 44 - started riding 36 years ago, own ponies then horses for 33 years (with a 9 year gap) I would say I'm experienced, but my confidence took a battering due to the gap... Horse is 11, has issues on issues - none of which were disclosed when I bought him (Dec 21st).

I have never had a napper before, I've had a bucking bronc - 1st pony - got me off every time... a rearer who I just didn't worry about at all as I was 15 and immortal, super spookies, bolters everything else, just not a napper.

It doesn't seem to matter how much leg you put on him, you could pony club kick him he just ignores you. I don't hold him tightly - hes in a comfort snaffle and cavesson - I'm not used to the leg on though - it really wears you out! Last hack after the stop he was calling most of the way, our other horses don't know him yet and couldn't give 2 hoots if he was there or not. I feel sorry for him but he's bolshy and opinionated - which I'm also not used to.

This is turning into a nightmare. I'm so unhappy.

 

[Pinkvboots]

It may just be he lacks confidence on his own, has he hacked alone previously? How old is he? One of my horses is not confident alone out hacking and although his 9 his never done it so I have to sort of treat him like a baby horse, I only ride with another horse at the moment not always ideal but I try to not put him in a situation where he will nap, can you not hack with someone for a while see if that helps.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Hi, I'm 44 - started riding 36 years ago, own ponies then horses for 33 years (with a 9 year gap) I would say I'm experienced, but my confidence took a battering due to the gap... Horse is 11, has issues on issues - none of which were disclosed when I bought him (Dec 21st).

I have never had a napper before, I've had a bucking bronc - 1st pony - got me off every time... a rearer who I just didn't worry about at all as I was 15 and immortal, super spookies, bolters everything else, just not a napper.

It doesn't seem to matter how much leg you put on him, you could pony club kick him he just ignores you. I don't hold him tightly - hes in a comfort snaffle and cavesson - I'm not used to the leg on though - it really wears you out! Last hack after the stop he was calling most of the way, our other horses don't know him yet and couldn't give 2 hoots if he was there or not. I feel sorry for him but he's bolshy and opinionated - which I'm also not used to.

This is turning into a nightmare. I'm so unhappy.

Tbh if you have only had him a month its really not long I would not expect a new horse to hack in a strange place straight away, I have had my horse since November and I wouldnt hack him on his own yet, I would try and get some company I am sure he will be totally different in a few months, you got to give him a chance poor boy is at a strange home and strange surroundings.

 

[shmoo]

I do want to try, I don't want to give up at all, I just wasn't sure if this was a confidence thing for him, he does seem very young for 11 - if that makes any sense. I was just told he was fine to hack alone - I didn't try this myself I just believed the answer I was given to my question.

So you think time may help?

 

[Emma_H]

I have a napper too, does it on his own never in company.

I want to go out alone and I have a few times but sometimes I just don't have the energy for the battle. Mostly I go out in company but I'm determined this summer to get out alone in the evenings.

I have to hack down a road to get to a safe hacking area, I would be inclined in your case to walk in hand down your road and get on at your quiet track.

Don't be unhappy, keep trying xx

 

[shmoo]

I am more than willing to do a half and half - I was going to lead him 2-3 miles away then hack back - so we could have a chat on the way.

Thing is though do you buy a horse that can jump - then when it refuses when you get it home do you wait - give it time and see if it changes its mind? Or expect it to do what you have been told in no uncertain terms it can do?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

My chestnut mare was the queen of napping when I first bought her and she hasn't napped for years now (but I suspect that she'd try it on with a new rider) as I basically made it clear that forwards was the only option. I never, ever, ever turn on the spot and go home the way we came, so we only do circular or lollipop shaped routes (using something as a roundabout is fine in her case). I have in the past (and would now if required) got off and led her - as the traffic was too bad for her leaping about antics - then remounted later and this worked well as she was fine in-hand and I could often ride right past the 'sticking point' with no fuss the following day.

You have to get determined - I was willing to walk the whole flipping way, rather than turn round and go back.

 

[Emma_H]

You're completely right. My boy is completely right for me in every other way so I persevere.

What's your alternative, can he be sent back?

 

[njc]

Hi I think I remember your other thread. You bought a big friesian as a family horse got him home and he was difficult to handle?? Now he's napping out hacking and you feel disappointed and a bit misled by the seller.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

You have to get determined - I was willing to walk the whole flipping way, rather than turn round and go back.

Totally agree with this. I had to get to breaking point before I thought "*** it you will go out alone". If he's really not taking the blindest bit of notice to your aids perhaps you should get an instructor out to help you go back to basics and get him listening to you again.

In terms of whether you've been mis-sold (reading between the lines I'm guessing that's what you're asking) you have to bear in mind that it's only been a month and some horses take a while to settle. Also napping is usually a confidence thing, so you may find once he's feeling more settled he'll trust that when you push him on it's because you know best.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yes, lessons with a good instructor is a good idea.

 

[shmoo]

Hi I think I remember your other thread. You bought a big friesian as a family horse got him home and he was difficult to handle?? Now he's napping out hacking and you feel disappointed and a bit misled by the seller.

Nail on the head - don't know where to turn.

 

[shmoo]

Hi I think I remember your other thread. You bought a big friesian as a family horse got him home and he was difficult to handle?? Now he's napping out hacking and you feel disappointed and a bit misled by the seller.

Nail on the head - don't know where to turn.

 

[njc]

Sorry cut my reply off a bit soon
I would try the circular routes as others have suggested and get his confidence hacking with others on a new route. I would also consider an instructor/ trainer for a lesson so you can get an independent view on how you work together
Iwould also get him in a routine with you doing him most of the time helps to build a bond and get him listening to you.
I ve no experience around Mis selling so I can't advise on that I think rightly or wrongly a lot of the time it's up to the buyer to test out before purchase whether the horse is suitable for them and rely less on what the seller says , probably doing lots of genuine sellers a disservice but I have certainly been told a few porkies in the past

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I ve no experience around Mis selling so I can't advise on that I think rightly or wrongly a lot of the time it's up to the buyer to test out before purchase whether the horse is suitable for them and rely less on what the seller says , probably doing lots of genuine sellers a disservice but I have certainly been told a few porkies in the past

This! I think the fact you took their word for the fact he'd hack alone rather than tried him yourself may count against you, but I could be wrong. Do you have any of your conversations with the seller in writing or was it all verbal? You may have comeback if this is a dealer, but if you bought from a private seller I'd be surprised if legally you have much comeback.

Speaking of which, what has the seller said about your issues so far? If this were H i'd sold, I'd be out to take a look at what was going on and show you how I manage his behaviour, but granted this may not be possible for you and the previous owner.

 

[njc]

I have a Friesien x myself I love him to bits but he can be Bolshy and opinionated he lovely natured though not nasty he isn't for sale but if I was to market him there are plenty of descriptions I would use and family horse isn't one of them I would say you've two options see if the old owner will take him back or try out lessons/ hacking in company to see if he can become a horse for you. I would echo what others have said though a month isn't long for a new horse to settle

 

[shmoo]

This! I think the fact you took their word for the fact he'd hack alone rather than tried him yourself may count against you, but I could be wrong. Do you have any of your conversations with the seller in writing or was it all verbal? You may have comeback if this is a dealer, but if you bought from a private seller I'd be surprised if legally you have much comeback.

Speaking of which, what has the seller said about your issues so far? If this were H i'd sold, I'd be out to take a look at what was going on and show you how I manage his behaviour, but granted this may not be possible for you and the previous owner.

Everything is in writing bar the initial phone call - all done via text and email. I didn't hack alone - this and lead him too/from his field were the things I didn't do, and the ones I have the problems with the most - and other things I wasn't told about or blatantly told untruths. I asked so many questions and was completely honest and up front about my ability and needs. I still don't think the chap who sold him is a bad person, hes excellent with horses I just don't think he fully listened to me or took the needs of the horse into consideration. We are not a perfectly matched pair - apart from hairdo's - we match there... I wanted a family pony - pretty much everything else was irrelevant. I didn't care about height (just had a minimum) breed colour looks anything... just temperament - that's all I was after. I feel hard done by and so sorry for the horse as I hate to see animals pushed around and will worry if he goes...

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Everything is in writing bar the initial phone call - all done via text and email. I didn't hack alone - this and lead him too/from his field were the things I didn't do, and the ones I have the problems with the most - and other things I wasn't told about or blatantly told untruths. I asked so many questions and was completely honest and up front about my ability and needs. I still don't think the chap who sold him is a bad person, hes excellent with horses I just don't think he fully listened to me or took the needs of the horse into consideration. We are not a perfectly matched pair - apart from hairdo's - we match there... I wanted a family pony - pretty much everything else was irrelevant. I didn't care about height (just had a minimum) breed colour looks anything... just temperament - that's all I was after. I feel hard done by and so sorry for the horse as I hate to see animals pushed around and will worry if he goes...

I think sometimes it can be hard when you know a horse so well. Slightly off topic, but I have a huge fear of going downhill at speed as H is still a bit unbalanced. Most of the people I ride with know this and take it into account but there's one person I've stopped riding out with as despite multiple conversations they were still taking steep slopes way too fast for us or offering to give us a lead over fences and then speeding off before we'd even got a chance to turn towards the jump. A friend and I were chatting to them about this and we realised that as their horse was much bigger than ours and balanced they just didn't view things the same way we did and what was steep and fast for us, wasn't for them. So perhaps the seller was just a lot more confident in handling and riding the horse and as such never experienced the issues you're now having?

From what you've said about going with a list of ideals I'm guessing the seller is a dealer, which does give you the option to return for refund or at the very least swap for something more suitable, but obviously be doing this you'll have no control of where this horse may end up.

So your options really are to return him and get something else, sell him yourself (possibly with the help of an instructor) so you know what home he goes to or really commit to turning him into the horse you wanted and crack on with it. Once you've decided which route to take it will all become a lot easier. If you do decide to keep him I'd be inclined to get an instructor out to evaluate the situation and help you draw up an action plan.

 

[Palindrome]

I feel hard done by and so sorry for the horse as I hate to see animals pushed around and will worry if he goes...

Then book some lessons with a good instructor and use the opportunity to become a more effective rider, who knows may be you'll even want to enter some competitions once you have him going really well

ETA: One thing I'd try as he is willing to back up is to turn him round and go backward where you want to go. After a few good steps turn around and give him the opportunity to go forward where you want to go, if he declines then start backward again.

 

[shmoo]

Competitions?? Good grief, those days are long gone...

 

[littleshetland]

OP - is your horse a Friesian? Being the owner of a Friesian myself, they are fabulous, fabulous horses. Very clever and seem to bond well with one human - however, they can be bloody stubborn at times. Mine took to napping like a duck to water, and I had to nip it in the bud VERY quickly. If you do decide to keep the horse, do get some help with him - I'm sure you can overcome this napping problem with a few well timed 'reminders' that he has to go forward off the leg. As I said, stubbornness can be a bit of a problem with them (having talked to other Friesian owners), but he'll probably be worth it in the end. Get some help, have some lessons, give it a bit of time and effort and it'll probably be fine. I certainly don't claim to know everything there is to know about Friesian horses, but I absoloutley love the one I've got......they are definitely a bit special!

Another thought....Could someone accompany you on foot or bicycle? It'll give you a bit confidence having someone there, and can be a good way to 'wean' him off the company of another horse on hacks. Give him a lot of positive reinforcement and praise the moment he does the right thing for you.