Another question for the GSD people please

[misst]

I have a very good friend. Her kids were desperate for a dog 5 years ago and she gave in and got a GSD bitch. For the first 2 years this dog was a bouncy over enthusiastic poorly trained but friendly dog.
Her three sons have now grown and left home for work/uni etc. She is now at home with just her and her daughter age 17. The dog has become, to my eyes, rather frightening.
If anyone comes to her door the dog barks and barks in a really agressive manner and then backs off still barking down the hall into the kitchen. If you enter the house and go into the living room the dog reappears in the hall and stares at you in the lounge barking again . When told to stop she does for a few minutes but then starts again.
I am very uncomfortable entering the house and actually ignore her where as I used to be able to make a fuss and enjoy her company. She is like this with all visitors so the only people who enter the house now are kids returning home to visit or tradesmen. Tradesmen have frequently refused to come in until she is shut away. I do not blame them.
When out walking the dog barks at anyone approaching. She is better off lead than on lead but again does not really approach anyone but barks if they are coming towards her or my friend.
I am avoiding visiting completely as I was scared by her last time. My friend thinks I am being silly but to me she looks as if she is afraid of people and guarding her home.
I am used to terriers and labs and spanners and mongrels of all types. This dog seems unhappy and agressive though my friend insists she would not hurt anyone. She is well cared for fed properly and excercised regularly. She has no "job". I do not know what her breeding is exactly but she is from a registered KC breeder.
Do I try and persaude her that this is an accident waiting to happen or am I over reacting? This is a genuine question as I am not going into the house again until I understand what is going on. She wants to bring the dog to our house when she visits but I have said no as I have 2 terriers and a granddaughter there a lot of the time.
Is this behavour breed related or training related? Is it normal??
She has never actually attacked or snarled at anyone. When barking she looks like a police dog lunging on a lead if that makes sense.
Thanks for your replies.

 

[ApolloStorm]

To me this sounds like a couple of things going wrong. Firstly, having communicated to friend that you are uncomfortable with the dog and the dogs behaviour , the dog should be put away. You being anxious can heighten a situation, and it’s basic respect on part of your friend that you’re uncomfortable and shouldn’t have to be.
Secondly, this dog has gone through quite an upheaval at a important stage in a dogs life, 3 members of the family leaving at the age of 2 when they’re essentially going through the “ terrible twos” can cause behaviour problems.
Finally, sounds like your friend is pretty clueless, even prior to this new behaviour the dog being described as “enthusiastic poorly trained but friendly”, all dogs need training, especially large smart breeds. Shepherds can be absolute NIGHTMARES in the wrong family. The breed isn’t inherently bad or aggressive, but in this instance it sounds like the dog needs some consistent training and actually taught what’s right and wrong. She needs to invest some time into good quality consistent training.
And while I think you made the right call not letting her bring the dog to yours, from your description you also do sound quite wary of the breed anyway.

 

[misst]

There are several where I live walking off lead and never give cause for concern. They do not behave anything like my friends dog. It's a breed I don't know well but TBH any large dog that behaves like this (or small dog!) makes me wary.
My question was do I say something. I'm well aware she's badly trained. I have never felt like this around a domestic pet. I just wondered if this was just poor behaviour or potentially dangerous behaviour.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's massively disrepectful of your friend not to put the dog away/think it should come to your house and also massively unfair on the dog.
If the dog bites you or anyone else (in fairness if it wanted to, it would have done so already, although that's not to say it won't escalate) you/they could sue her.
And the dog could get PTS and she could end up with a criminal record.
Does she want that?

This is an insecure dog who has undergone a lot of upheaval at a difficult age, her 'pack' has disappeared and left her on her own and she is being continually exposed to 'threats', people coming into her home and she feels the need to defend herself and an owner giving no help.

I've seen plenty of GSDs like this, not genetically strong in nerve, reactive, thrown out of the plane with no parachute, they are given no guidance or reassurance (that's OK, it's nothing to worry about) and feel the need to pop off at anything and everything to keep themselves safe.
It's what works...act aggressively, threat retreats.

Yes they are a guarding breed, but happy, balanced dogs do not behave like this. They know the difference between a friend coming for a cuppa and a violent intruder.

The first thing she needs to to is to keep the dog away from all entry points, porches, hallways, doors etc.
If someone comes to the door she needs to be put in another room.
I have grown up with GSDs and would not want to be in a room with a dog like this, what is enjoyable about the experience for her, the dog, or you?
So no, it's not normal/acceptable IMO.

Please suggest she goes to a breed specific training class or someone who knows or has worked the breed.

 

[misst]

Thank you CC. I think that was my feeling. That she is nervous- but that makes me nervous ?.
I will suggest gently that she gets a breed specific trainer in. I did wonder if the boys all leaving so quickly was part of it.
To be honest I don't think my friend enjoys her company and finds her behaviour restrictive. She does love her but basically has been left to care for a dog she didn't choose and knows nothing about. She keeps saying she is gentle as a lamb but appearances don't support this. It's nice to know she probably won't bite but I still won't go there if she is loose as I know my body language sends the wrong signal no matter how much I try to look confident but bored by her.
I will look up some local breed specific classes to suggest. Then perhaps we can enjoy her one day.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It might open up a whole new world to her. I went, at my wits end, to a GSD training club with a reactive dog about 12 years, tens of thousands of quid, hundreds of thousands of miles and one or two friends and a long-term boyfriend ago ????

 

[misst]

She needs a new hobby??? I'll broach the subject gently next week. She might be relieved to hear some honesty. She's a lovely woman but never owned a dog before. I don't dislike GSDs but I know nothing about this type of behaviour so have been loathe to say anything about it. And yes the dog does scare me even if that makes makes me a bit soft. But I'm not usually scared. I consider myself dog confident and sensible around dogs, my own and other people's. I will update when we've had a chat.

 

[SusieT]

barking is just the dog being anxious. It looks frightening in a GSD.
She need a behaviourist to come and work with her. The barking on the lead is lead anxiety.
This imay or may not lead to a bite situation (it's likely if you ignore the dog it is unlikely to approach you to bite but hard to guarantee).

 

[misst]

Thank you I think that was my take on it but I am unfamiliar with the breed. I'm hoping to have a bit of a chat next week.
The barking is definitely intimidating!

 

[Moobli]

It sounds like a very insecure, anxious, weak nerved dog that is reacting in the only way she knows how to communicate she’s unhappy about strange people approaching her. It’s sadly not an uncommon problem in this breed (esp the byb type). The fact she barks and retreats shows she is not inherently aggressive but is nervous, but as previously said it doesn’t mean that she won’t bite especially if cornered or with no flight option available.
Your friend needs to be told in no uncertain terms that she needs to address her dog’s behaviour and if she is unable/unwilling to do do then she needs to at least manage the behaviour so it’s not a problem to anyone else - ie dog shut away when she has visitors, being muzzled trained and kept on a lead when exercised etc. I wouldn’t allow a friend to bring such a dog to mix with my dogs or kids either.
It does sound like the classic tale of kids wanting a dog and it’s mum left looking after it (despite not wanting one in the first place).

 

[Ranyhyn]

A good example GSD should be of strong nerve, completely confident but aware. My big male GSD would let anyone in the house because I control the house not him.

A dog isnt happy in this state, she needs to address this for the dogs happiness if not everyone elses.