Another random observation that I’m hoping I’m being thick over

[poiuytrewq]

And has a very simple obvious answer.

Latest horse, I’ve had him 6 months so not new anymore as I’ve mentioned before is prone to tripping. I thought at first he wasn’t sound and after his first shoeing (was overdue) he wasn’t but has been fine after subsequent shoeings, farrier said he learnt a lot from the first time he did him and we now do every 4/5 weeks so the change is never dramatic, ? g to his is working.
Ive noticed though (wait for it....and humour me) that his front hoof prints are very toe down. So my other horse and every horse foot print you usually see are pretty even. A horse shoe print. These look a bit like if a person kicked their toe into a surface, shovel like.
It’s just a bit odd, I’ve noticed it all round the field and assumed it was from tearing round but it’s not.
So, does this say anything? I’m wondering if it’s linked to the tripping ?‍

edited to say the ground isn’t that soft. The others leave a mark but not a gauge and it’s not every step

 

[meleeka]

Can you get someone to trot him up while Slo-mo videoing it? It might give you a better clue.

 

[be positive]

If he is landing more heavily on his toe rather than the heel then it is almost definitely why he trips if the feet get longer than optimum so by shoeing more frequently you are seeing the benefit of keeping the toes trimmed back but unfortunately not addressing the reason which is possibly discomfort in the heel area, it is why barefoot people spend so much time studying how the horse lands but with shoes on it is covered up, sorry but that would be my take on it, getting a slow mo video would be really useful.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ll try yes, I’ve just been watching him in the field, he trotted across and around when I put the ponies out. He’s certainly not landing obviously toe first all the time, I mean he must be when he makes these particular marks but how he lands was what I was trying to see.
I just never have anyone here to help with such things, I’ll try and get OH to film while I run!
From the side floor level presumably?

 

[doodle]

Robin will do that when he does his “zero to as fast as I can possibly go in the shortest possible time” act when being turned out. The first few strides he is putting in so much effort he digs his toes in the ground for a few strides. Once he is “up to speed” it stops.

 

[Flame_]

My old arab did this. It was just his movement, it was really close to the ground, there wasn't anything wrong with him.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Robin will do that when he does his “zero to as fast as I can possibly go in the shortest possible time” act when being turned out. The first few strides he is putting in so much effort he digs his toes in the ground for a few strides. Once he is “up to speed” it stops.

This was what I’d assumed when I see them round the field but today walking him across a freshly rolled field I saw not.

 

[poiuytrewq]

My old arab did this. It was just his movement, it was really close to the ground, there wasn't anything wrong with him.

I do hope so! Thanks

 

[Lady Jane]

My current obsession is feet and I'm learning alot. Shod horses should land pretty square foot down, unshod heel first. You need to give us a video of trot up on hard surface to comment properly. Really toe first means some caudal heel discomfort

 

[poiuytrewq]

He does have retracted soles but this is behind and only a recent thing.
Also, a longer term since before I had him really deep central sulcus in both hinds and one front. I’m treating and improving this. Might this have anything to do with it?

 

[doodle]

This was what I’d assumed when I see them round the field but today walking him across a freshly rolled field I saw not.

Fair enough ?

 

[stormox]

My current obsession is feet and I'm learning alot. Shod horses should land pretty square foot down, unshod heel first. You need to give us a video of trot up on hard surface to comment properly. Really toe first means some caudal heel discomfort

All horses, shod or unshod, should land heel first then as their body moves forward the weight is transferred from heel to toe. The breakover.
If you trot yours up or lunge and look at his front feet, does his heel hit the ground first? It should do.

 

[poiuytrewq]

All horses, shod or unshod, should land heel first then as their body moves forward the weight is transferred from heel to toe. The breakover.
If you trot yours up or lunge and look at his front feet, does his heel hit the ground first? It should do.

Not in slo mo, not tried that yet but on first impression he doesn’t land toe first, at least not always. You’d not look at him and notice anything obvious.

He also never trips any faster than walk (luckily!)

 

[canteron]

Probably doesn’t help but I had a horse who stopped tripping without shoes - it was if he suddenly understood how to manage his feet!

 

[[59668]]

If a horse is landing toe first on flat ground there is a problem somewhere. No question. Flat landings are kind of OK....heel first is the holy grail. You need to video in walk on a flat, hard surface, in slow mo.
With the mention of tripping too....I would wager there is an issue somewhere. This is how I first noticed a problem with my mare.

 

[SEL]

So you had me watching all 3 of mine this evening! My Appy has a soft tissue issue in her right fore and is definitely heel first on tarmac (paranoid mum here). We've got mud and the Appy and the pony were both leaving deep but pretty level imprints.

My draft is overdue a trim and his toes are too long. There's more of a toe impression even though he's landing heel first and i guess that's the greater effort to "rotate" as he pushes off with the xs hoof.

 

[poiuytrewq]

He was checked by a vet and we trotted up on hard and soft surfaces, did flexions all round, lunged but nothing.
Taking his shoes off is absolutely not an option. I lost my lovely old horse last spring after deciding that as my riding horse at the time had to go barefoot I’d throw myself at it and do them all and now totally blame myself 100%
If I’d left his shoes on he’d be alive and happy now.

 

[cobgoblin]

I don't think you can make any assumptions from an imprint. All you can say is that his toes dig in a little at walk.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I don't think you can make any assumptions from an imprint. All you can say is that his toes dig in a little at walk.

This is what I’d like to be the case! I think just coupled with the fact I’ve been a bit concerned over the tripping made me wonder.
I am going to do the video, out of interest.
I also have a vet coming this week anyway to check the old boy (who’s doing good!) and do a flu jab so will run it past her while she’s here.

 

[poiuytrewq]

So you had me watching all 3 of mine this evening! My Appy has a soft tissue issue in her right fore and is definitely heel first on tarmac (paranoid mum here). We've got mud and the Appy and the pony were both leaving deep but pretty level imprints.

My draft is overdue a trim and his toes are too long. There's more of a toe impression even though he's landing heel first and i guess that's the greater effort to "rotate" as he pushes off with the xs hoof.

Ah that’s quite an interesting theory actually. Maybe it’s the pushing off rather than the landing.
My brain go’s into overdrive once I’ve started ?

 

[cobgoblin]

Have you tried a rolled toe on his shoes?

 

[SEL]

Ah that’s quite an interesting theory actually. Maybe it’s the pushing off rather than the landing.
My brain go’s into overdrive once I’ve started ?

I was watching them again this morning and wondering just that. Are you seeing not so much the landing, but the 'push forward' part of the stride? Our ground is shocking so they are all digging in more than normal and so are the human footprints.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Toe first is normal uphill or on slippy ground. And flat footed landings can be normal in walk, although heel first would be considered better I think.

I wonder if the ground is a bit slippy and he's just more cautious than the other two? I'd get a video to check how he lands trotted up but would try not to over analyse the field prints if the trot up was peachy.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Have you tried a rolled toe on his shoes?

No, may suggest it. I have of course discussed the tripping with my farrier as it sometimes feels a bit like he stood on himself. He’s not convinced there’s any issue shoes can fix and said other than trying pads he’s a bit hesitant to change too much. I’ll have another chat after the vets given her opinion though.

 

[Hump991]

If you dont get it video'd sooner....I can give you a hand.

 

[Reacher]

I was watching them again this morning and wondering just that. Are you seeing not so much the landing, but the 'push forward' part of the stride? Our ground is shocking so they are all digging in more than normal and so are the human footprints.

This is what I thought (pushing off toe print). Will be interesting to do slo mo video

 

[poiuytrewq]

If you dont get it video'd sooner....I can give you a hand.

Perfect thank you! I hadn’t thought of that.

 

[sbloom]

Probably doesn’t help but I had a horse who stopped tripping without shoes - it was if he suddenly understood how to manage his feet!

The Equine Documentalist webinar last Saturday on posture and proprioception demonstrated how rim shoes (ie traditional shoes with no pads/filler) reduce proprioception. They already lose most of the sense of the shear forces as the foot hits thr ground, with steel shoes, but a rim shoe reduced sensory input almost entirely. I am a massive barefoot fan for this and all sorts of reasons, but the new composite shoes that cover the back half of the foot do look like a brilliant option for this for horses that would struggle barefoot (usually of course for external reasons, environment etc).

He was checked by a vet and we trotted up on hard and soft surfaces, did flexions all round, lunged but nothing.
Taking his shoes off is absolutely not an option. I lost my lovely old horse last spring after deciding that as my riding horse at the time had to go barefoot I’d throw myself at it and do them all and now totally blame myself 100%
If I’d left his shoes on he’d be alive and happy now.

A platitude I know, but please don't blame yourself. Life is never that cut and dried/black and white but for sure you did what you thought was right.