Another safety musing & an incident

ElleJS

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I was looking thru the FEI yellow card list on the FEI website and was suprised to see so many professionals on it. Including top pony riders and young riders. They are being caught riding tired horses, abuse of horses, incorrect behaviour and dangerous riding.
It seems crazy that our professionals are being caught doing the very things that are being drummed into us as extremely unprofessional and dangerous. Very shocked!

Anyway I noticed one rider who was given a card for jumping across roping on xc course and it got me thinking to an appaulling incident I witnessed at Houghton Hall 3DE this year.

My mum and I were walking the course when a combination came galloping towards the part of the course we were walking almost out of control. The horse was fighting with its head and the rider was haulling it about, (anyway I can feel for the rider as sometimes I feel like i'm trying to regain control when mine gets rather head strong!) However this was more extreme as she had no control of where the horse was going and went the wrong side of the rope that was guiding the XC track
She then got lost in the rope and couldn't work out how to get back on the XC track so she just galloped her horse at the roping (hoping i presume, that the horse would jump it)- I was totally horrified!!!! Am I wrong in thinking this?
The horse dragged the rope for some 100m before freeing its self and jumped the next fences scarily but with thankfully out incident.

I took note of her name and number as was intrigued to see if she would be penalised for this. Apprently not as she completed the competiton.

Now imo this has to be considered dangerous riding? I noticed the rider is now qualified to ride at advanced level. Scary.

Maybe it was a one off incident but I'm very suprised the fence judge didn't report it.
 

KatB

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OMG, who in their right mind would canter at rope just hoping it wouldnt trip them up?!??!
Doesnt surprise me though
 

icestationzebra

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Agree - very scary. The fence judge may well have reported it (in fact I bet they did) but it is up to control to log these concerns and the organisers to follow up. Having done a fair bit of fence judging I know that lots of things are raised - excessive use of whip, using whip after last fence, riders going to fast etc etc which never get progressed
I remember seeing a well known rider ride very roughly at Belton last year including excessive use of whip and spurs at a fence he did not approach correctly. The fence judge immediately radioed over his concerns. I was next to him and asked him to log my concerns (as a spectator) too..... nothing happened there either
That one wasn't so much a safety issue, but it still comes back to setting a bad example!
 

moogrrr

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I must admit, looking at the yellow card list, the incidents seem to vary in significance massively - surely, turning up 10 mins late for a 1* inspection isn't the same as 'Abuse of horse' or 'Over use of whip'. It is a very strange list and contains some very big names that really ought to be ashamed at appearing on a list like that. However, many of the top British riders, Mary King, WFP, Tina Cook, Daisy Dick, Sharon Hunt etc don't appear on the list at all which is very nice to see. it shows that not all top riders push there horses too far or use excessive methods to get the best out of horses.

As to the rope incident. Getting caught up in a rope around a xc course (or really anywhere) is my worse nigthmare, and yet this rider deliberatly tries to jump it. What a stupid and totally ridiculous thing to do. it is very worrying that they weren't penalised - i hope someone at least spoke to them about it/.
 

kerilli

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trying to jump a rope is utterly crazy, they're lucky they didn't both hit the deck.
i haven't seen the FEI list, must admit.
BE used to publish its list of those who had been cautioned/punished in the Omnibus iirc, but i don't know if they still do. there were some surprising names on it, always.
must admit though, having seen and heard of riders getting away with terrible things, incl pushing an absolutely exhausted horse to the point where it collapsed and died on the xc course at a v big prestigious event, and no punishment given, nothing surprises me any more.

when i did my first 3-days we were given a stern talking to at the Competitors' Briefing and told "the world is watching, our sport is under scrutiny, you MUST leave enough petrol in the tank, you MUST pull up if you feel your horse tiring, you MUST not bring the sport into disrepute" etc etc... so, the amateurs get lectured, but the Pros get away with it?

just having a look at list now. interesting one, "Dangerous Riding/Horse not up to standard of competition."
Yes, there's a couple of surprising names on there, esp pony riders etc!
 

legend

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I agree to some extent with TeaBee, although I'd love to know what they were doing that was so important as to turn up 10 mins after the end of the 1* horse inspection, seems a bizarre thing to do without reason??
I was also confused by the Incorrect Behaviour (late for XC start)- surely it'd make more sense just to eliminate them in both cases rather than yellow card them? Am I missing something?
Also shame on Oliver Townend getting 2 verbal warnings on 2 seperate horses on the same day, both for finishing on a tired horse - why verbally warn him the second time- clearly the first warning wasn't effective?!
 

moogrrr

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[ QUOTE ]
Also shame on Oliver Townend getting 2 verbal warnings on 2 seperate horses on the same day, both for finishing on a tired horse - why verbally warn him the second time- clearly the first warning wasn't effective?!

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit i totally agree with this - how can someone get two warnings at the same event, for the same offence on different horses. Crazy.
 

diggerbez

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thanks legend...you are a legend!



wow that is a lot of people...out of interest what actually happens if you get a yellow card? is there any follow-up from it?
 

TarrSteps

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Some of those lists are amazing! I was idly looking at the doping infractions list after the Olympic mess and there were all sorts of people on there I'd never even knew had a positive test. If I thought about it maybe they took a few weeks off but otherwise there wasn't a word of it.

I believe a yellow card is a warning, just to say they're watching. However, if you can get two on a day for the same thing . . . that sort of takes the sting out of it. On the other hand, in order to actually enforce a suspension or a fine there has to be a hearing or the rider has to decline his/her right to object and accept the agreed upon punishment. So someone getting two warnings in a day couldn't be punished anyway, even if they had other cards outstanding. Due process and all that.
 

TarrSteps

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By the way, on the rope issue, I saw someone go through a rope fence in a sj warm up once . . . the rope snaked up and wrapped around the NECK of someone watching and he was dragged behind the galloping, now panicking horse!! It ranks as one of the scariest things I've ever seen.
 

TPO

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Certainly an eye opener. I didn't think the list would be so long or include so many "names". It's good to know that things are getting/do get done.

Is there a follow up procedure or review for yellow carded rider? What happens next, how long does a card stay on their record?
 

diggerbez

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i just find it odd that you can get done for the same thing twice on the same day- i would think that there should surely be some sort of disciplinary hearing for this>?
if i got caught speeding in my car once i'd probs just get points and a producer- if i got caught twice on the same day expect i'd find self in court
 

MissDeMeena

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[ QUOTE ]
Now imo this has to be considered dangerous riding? I noticed the rider is now qualified to ride at advanced level. Scary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda adds insult to injury.. out of 120 starters, to be one of only 19 double clears at Barbury, and it still not be a qualifying score, just because my bloody horse wont walk in a dressage arena!!!
Not Fair!!!!!!!
 

k9h

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[ QUOTE ]
OMG, who in their right mind would canter at rope just hoping it wouldnt trip them up?!??!
Doesnt surprise me though


[/ QUOTE ]

Now I am going to go against the grain


This would not bother me with the horses I ride as out hunting I nearly everyday jump wire & have even jumped single strands on electric fencebe it rope or tape. My horses know how to jump it & I know how to ride into it (generally a trot).
But hunting is different to eventing & I would hope that I did not get it wrong on an eventing course. Its not something I would plan or set out to do while eventing.
 

tigers_eye

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QR. I jumped rope on a course once, I was 15, and had been properly f'ed off with by this tank of a pony, and he jumped the rope whilst bolting. I managed to pull him up, turned him round (furious) and thought if he jumped it once he can jump it twice and he did.

I always loved reading the disciplinary list in the omnibus!
 

Baydale

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OMG, who in their right mind would canter at rope just hoping it wouldnt trip them up?!??!
Doesnt surprise me though


[/ QUOTE ]

Now I am going to go against the grain


This would not bother me with the horses I ride as out hunting I nearly everyday jump wire & have even jumped single strands on electric fencebe it rope or tape. My horses know how to jump it & I know how to ride into it (generally a trot).
But hunting is different to eventing & I would hope that I did not get it wrong on an eventing course. Its not something I would plan or set out to do while eventing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes, that's on my list of things that OH makes me teach the hunters. We rarely have "tanks" that would prefer to go through something when they have to the option to go over it thankfully, so it's not such a difficult task.
 

Mel85

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Made me chuckle that the horse presented 10 minutes late for trot up was called Timing...!
 

legend

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Glad it wasn't just me that sniggered at that!

And DiggerBez, n'aw shucks, thanks it was no bother!
 

only_me

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horse at tattersalls finished 1* so exhausted it collapsed after last fence and refused to move for at least 10 minutes.

No punishment.
 

kerilli

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[ QUOTE ]
horse at tattersalls finished 1* so exhausted it collapsed after last fence and refused to move for at least 10 minutes.

No punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeeeeez. actually, i've heard worse... horse at a Novice (yeah, wow, serious fitness/endurance required for that), a catch ride for a Pro so perhaps a little excuse as he was told it was fit enough and to go for the time. It collapsed after the finish and had to be given oxygen. The rider found this incredibly funny...

The thing is, when a horse is tiring anyone with any feel at all can tell, the canter starts wallowing from side to side a bit (i've felt this out hunting, never eventing, fwiw) and so, obviously, anyone with 1/2 a brain will ease off. jumping fixed timber on an exhausted horse?! you have got to be crazy.
I've seen a few pros have exhausted horses collapse after jumping fences, they manage to get themselves in the air but just don't have the co-ordination to get the landing gear out right.
 

Gamebird

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[ QUOTE ]
This would not bother me with the horses I ride as out hunting I nearly everyday jump wire & have even jumped single strands on electric fencebe it rope or tape. My horses know how to jump it & I know how to ride into it (generally a trot).
But hunting is different to eventing & I would hope that I did not get it wrong on an eventing course. Its not something I would plan or set out to do while eventing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You beat me to it K, I was going to say that all my horses are taught to jump single strand electric tape or wire and I would expect them to get it right! HOWEVER I would not do this eventing!! When meeting it out hunting I generally aim for a post to be on the safe side too.
 
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