Another setback? Or 'is he the right horse'?

[flat3]

I'm concerned about whether my horse will be able to do the job I need. I think I'm typing this for a bit of therapy (sorry for the essay!) but also to see what someone on the outside looking in might see/advise.

I bought my gelding in mid July 2019 after a thorough search; he's a 13yr old 15.2 TBx. I'm a relatively novice horse owner. He's kept on full livery with a knowledgeable and supportive YO. He is a lovely genuine boy who wants to please and likes to work. I had him vetted inc. flexion etc and he passed as fit for RC allrounder. Holiday and new saddle etc. meant we didn't really get going until the end of August. Soon realised something else going on and scoped for ulcers mid October, resulting not being ridden for 4 weeks. Ulcers not cleared so treatment continues, but allowed to recommence ridden work and lameness remained so Dec saw a lameness work up with scans and x-rays identifying bone spavin in both hinds - worse in right. Specialist shoeing and Tildren at end of Dec; lengthy rehab with weeks in walk, then adding in small bits of trot and working up to canter. Vet saw improvement in the mid-Feb review but by early May improvement hadn't continued so x-rayed hocks again and decided to inject both. Finally scoped clear for ulcers though. Worst leg, right hind, injected end of May with the left injected end of June. Back to walk again for several weeks, then short burst of trot etc. and worked back up to canter. Did a couple of sessions of polework, which he really enjoyed, but perhaps 'felt' afterwards. Schooling continued but felt a bit 'sticky' in October so had a week off and restarted him on omeprazole and misoprostol in case it was an ulcer flare. Then when in the school mid-Nov just did not want to trot on the left rein and trotted up lame on left hind (not his 'usual'). Physio saw him on 13th and said he was extremely uncomfortable in his topline, poll and ascending pecs - uncharacteristic for him. He does like a run around the field and had recently moved into his winter paddock, so we thought maybe he'd slipped/fallen in the field. Vet saw him on 19th and came back 24th to see him on the lunge and ridden. Said he'd improved between; presented as normal-for-him on the trot up and lunge, but did not want to go forwards under saddle which is not normal for him.

Vet suggested scoping for ulcers in case it was a fall in the field which has now resolved, but the pain has caused a re-occurrence of the ulcers. I know once they've had ulcers they are predisposed but it feels like they're constantly in the shadows. The niggle I've had in the back of my mind about him having a more fundamental soundness issue is getting louder, and I'm concerned about whether he's up to the job. It feels like it's been a rollercoaster without any 'up' sections, I think 2 months is the longest period of work we've had. I'm reminded that horses are meant to be fun, and I (and husband!) work hard to be able to afford it. If it isn't fun then something isn't right, and whilst he is a lovely boy I can't really describe the last 18 months as fun.

I enjoy horses for the riding and I need a horse that is happy and fit to work in the school. My main interest is dressage and schooling. I'd like to get back to occasional low level jumping (max 70/80cm) at some point too. Work means in the winter I am restricted to riding in the school weekday evenings, with a potter round the lanes at the weekend. I'm not really interested in hacking, I do it for variety but I don't enjoy it and an accident several years ago left me with serious ankle damage, so I'm limited to ~45mins per ride.

Throughout he's been on full whack joint supplement (inc. boswellia) and digestive supplement, seen physio every 8 weeks, shod every 5 weeks, excellent saddler every 4 months and teeth every 6 months.

Am I just feeling the frustration of another setback? Or should I be starting to listen more to the voice that says 'is he the right horse'? How do you know when to stop throwing your emotions and money at them? He is/was insured so hocks and ulcers have been covered so far but the year limit has just ended on those. Any spend now is out of my own pocket and his symptoms aren't suggesting a clear path to start down so it does feel like I could just be setting fire to our savings with my fingers crossed...

 

[Leandy]

What a shame for you! It seems you have done all the right things. Do you know his previous history? If he came with a verifiable good previous history of being reasonably consistently sound, I would be giving him a chance of turning him away for 6 months and then bringing him back slowly and steadily and see where it led and whether he comes back doing what you want. There is a good chance he may. If he doesn't I would retire at that point or, if he can hack, find him a happy hacking loan home. If he has known previous history of some issues but you took the chance anyway then I would retire him now and move on. I wouldn't be throwing a lot more money at this personally. I think you are right to be asking that question. Your time, effort and money could well be better spent on something more promising.

 

[ponyparty]

Ulcers are usually secondary to pain, which would make sense in this case. It's a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" as to how much money you could spend on diagnostics and trying to get him right. Owning horses is never easy or straightforward... or cheap. If you don't want to, or are unable to, spend a significant amount on diagnostics and treatment, I'd PTS to be honest. You can't sell an unsound horse (well you can, and people obviously do, but I certainly couldn't). Arthritis is a degenerative condition which I don't think turning away will fix although it may alleviate symptoms); and it sounds like there could be something else going on as well, or arthritis in other locations. I would say put him on loan but he doesn't even sound fit for that (as a ridden horse - and there's a limited market for companion horses. Is he even comfortable in the field?).
Sorry for the bleak outlook but you're right, he doesn't seem up to the job and sounds like he's in pain.

 

[IrishMilo]

I can't see what value turning him away would be - the horse has a degenerative condition that isn't going to ever get better, work or no work. Sorry to be blunt OP but if the horse has had all the treatments and still isn't sound, it's not going to magically get better. My decider for whether or not to stop throwing time and money is - Is this going to get better with rehab/treatment, or are they just extending the inevitable of a shoddy prognosis?

 

[Bernster]

Eek this does sound a bit bleak I’m afraid. Sounds like he has a fair bit going on. Obv these ones are tricky and there’s probably a lot more involved that’s hard to get down fully in a forum post.

I think it comes down to two fairly stark choices - vet for full assessment and work up and a battery of tests, to work out what else might be going on and get as much clarity on treatment rehab etc. Or decide to retire (or even pts if prognosis is not good). I tend to do the former but that depends on personal situation, insurance cover etc. I prefer to know what I’m dealing with, to the extent this can ever be fully clear, and then decide from there. Sometimes the decision is still to retire or retire to light work.

 

[flat3]

Thanks for your replies. Writing it down and hearing from entirely new parties has certainly helped me step back, and I think I know what I'd be saying to a friend in my position. Essentially he's had £10k at the vets in the last 18 months and hasn't been able to be in consistent work. I need to consider my options.

 

[SEL]

What's his hoof balance like? I've seen recently how poor shoeing can lead to a very sore horse - it took a change of farrier during lockdown to point out previous farrier had done a sh1t job.

 

[stormox]

At 13 I wouldnt consider selling on a horse with these problems, even to a home with only light work. I think it comes down to going in to vet hospital for a full thorough checkover and diagnoostic tests, or PTS.

 

[Polos Mum]

Reading the list of ailments cold - it's a pretty long list. None of which sound actually fixed to me which after 18 months and £10k (and reaching insurance limits) is a lot.
I am usually a fan of Dr Green / rest, but actually he's been on rest in various forms for 18 months and that hasn't really helped.

I would have a conversation with the vet - try and get them to be honest and really see what value there is in more diagnostics at this stage and if you found more things what realistic chance of sensible prognosis (to do what you want) would be. I would also take their advice as to his likely quality of life in retirement. The "horses have to thrive not just survive" phrase in a recent article struck a cord with me.

I'd bet - if he arrived with ulcers, that he also arrived with underlying lameness issues that weren't picked up by the vetting - for whatever reason.
It would be very unlikely for him to suddenly turned lame within weeks of you buying him. This could have been going on a lot longer than 18 months and someone hasn't take responsibility for his welfare - sadly.

 

[flat3]

What's his hoof balance like? I've seen recently how poor shoeing can lead to a very sore horse - it took a change of farrier during lockdown to point out previous farrier had done a sh1t job.

I hold my hands up to being novice but my farrier is well respected and has a good working relationship with my vet; they've worked together to make sure he's trimmed and shod appropriately.

 

[flat3]

Reading the list of ailments cold - it's a pretty long list. None of which sound actually fixed to me which after 18 months and £10k (and reaching insurance limits) is a lot.
I am usually a fan of Dr Green / rest, but actually he's been on rest in various forms for 18 months and that hasn't really helped.

I would have a conversation with the vet - try and get them to be honest and really see what value there is in more diagnostics at this stage and if you found more things what realistic chance of sensible prognosis (to do what you want) would be. I would also take their advice as to his likely quality of life in retirement. The "horses have to thrive not just survive" phrase in a recent article struck a cord with me.

I'd bet - if he arrived with ulcers, that he also arrived with underlying lameness issues that weren't picked up by the vetting - for whatever reason.
It would be very unlikely for him to suddenly turned lame within weeks of you buying him. This could have been going on a lot longer than 18 months and someone hasn't take responsibility for his welfare - sadly.

Thanks, I think you're right. I haven't heard it before but that phrase "horses have to thrive not just survive" is so true. I certainly won't be selling him.

 

[IrishMilo]

You sound like a great owner, and despite admitting being a novice, have more sense than some people who've spent their life with horses... if you can post some foot pics, we can tell you what we see (pic of sole of foot, from straight on, behind the heel, and from the side - all taken at floor level).

 

[flat3]

You sound like a great owner, and despite admitting being a novice, have more sense than some people who've spent their life with horses... if you can post some foot pics, we can tell you what we see (pic of sole of foot, from straight on, behind the heel, and from the side - all taken at floor level).

Thank you. We're on limited visits due to Covid so I'll try and get some in my slot at the weekend.

 

[Mari]

I really feel for you. I’ve had 2 that I bought as all rounders, both vetted & both ‘not right’ after about 8 months. Both had full vet work up. I keep mine at home & already had my veteran retired homebred so keeping a non ridden horse not a problem for me. First one wouldn’t settle to being a field companion so at 6 yrs old I made the decision to PTS. Second one is happy being a field companion so she will see her days out with me.

 

[Mari]

I really feel for you. I’ve had 2 that I bought as all rounders, both vetted & both ‘not right’ after about 8 months. Both had full vet work up. I keep mine at home & already had my veteran retired homebred so keeping a non ridden horse not a problem for me. First one wouldn’t settle to being a field companion so at 6 yrs old I made the decision to PTS. Second one is happy being a field companion so she will see her days out with me.

I’ve now got a ridden one from a charity & couldn’t be more pleased. You know what you’re getting if you rehome from a charity .

 

[oldie48]

TBH to me it doesn't seem that your horse is going to come sound enough to do the job. When you keep horses at home on your own land it's easier to retire to the field as long as the horse is comfortable. I've done this and been able to keep a close watch to ensure the horse remains comfortable but I take a more pragmatic view for horses that are kept on full livery and would have no hesitation to PTS if I thought a horse didn't have a pain free working life ahead of it. You have had terrible luck with this horse, you have done right by him but clearly he's still in pain, poor boy. I am so sorry, it's a horrible situation and you are clearly a caring owner but sometimes it's time to stop trying to fix the unfixable.

 

[dorsetladette]

Have you had his teeth checked?

 

[Baccara]

I feel your pain. I have an 8/9 yr old that hasnot been quite right after a year of buying him. He did pass a vetting to be dressage horse. Ive had him 3years this month and after owning him for about a year, and with regular input from a good trainer, dentist etc etc he hadnot improved as much as we all felt he should have. So, vet visits for scans, xrays, nerve blocking, injections in back and hock followed by last winter off and brought back into work the beginning of the year, he has not got any better, in fact now he is worse than he was. Ive taken his shoes off and will turn himaway for the winter and see what happens next year, but I dont hold out muchhope.

 

[AmyMay]

At 13 I wouldnt consider selling on a horse with these problems, even to a home with only light work. I think it comes down to going in to vet hospital for a full thorough checkover and diagnoostic tests, or PTS.

I absolutely agree. Although after £10k of vet treatment I wouldn’t be spending any more as that’s akin to clutching at straws.

It’s not that he’s the ‘wrong’ horse, he’s a ‘crock’ horse sadly with little expectation of improvement I’d guess.

 

[flat3]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm waiting for a call from the vet to discuss if/what work he can realistically and comfortably handle, and will take it from there.

 

[shamrock2021]

I think it’s time to retire him unfortunately . I wouldn’t be spending any more money on him. Or You can sell him as a companion horse ?.

 

[Polos Mum]

Or You can sell him as a companion horse ?.

Please, please 1000 x please don't do that.

There's a chance this is what happened to him before and how he ended up with you !!

Nice, kind, smart looking, stoic horses who aren't dog lame are a dodgy dealers dream.

If the vet doesn't think retirement will suit his ailments (or indeed it doesn't suit your budget - which is a totally fair reason to PTS IMHO) please have him quietly and calmly PTS.

 

[AmyMay]

I think it’s time to retire him unfortunately . I wouldn’t be spending any more money on him. Or You can sell him as a companion horse ?.

I agree about retiring him. But absolutely not selling him.

 

[flat3]

Don't worry, I absolutely won't be selling him.

 

[maya2008]

I would agree that your most likely options at this point are retirement (if you can afford it and he can be field sound) or pts. Everyone makes their own choice there. I have one retiree but I have had her nearly all her life and she makes a wonderful nanny horse. She is field sound, a good weight and happy. One of my others would deteriorate in retirement so we will have to make a different choice for her.

 

[stormox]

I think it’s time to retire him unfortunately . I wouldn’t be spending any more money on him. Or You can sell him as a companion horse ?.

Not a good idea to sell an unsound horse. He could get into the hands of an unscrupulous dealer.

 

[Trouper]

I have been where you are now and looking back I can see that we endlessly tried to deal with just one issue at a time - the one that we thought might be causing the latest symptoms. In the end conventional vet treatment ran out of ideas.
I then contacted Tom Beech (The Osteopathic Vet) who took a completely holistic view of the horse. It was a fascinating exercise in learning the total inter-connectedness of all parts of my horse's body (see his FB pages). As it happens we found things that could not be cured and I had to pts but it gave me the whole picture I was lacking with traditional veterinary examinations and I was able to make a sensible and informed decision that even retirement or as a companion would not have been suitable for him.
It is definitely worth one last shot at trying to make the picture whole before you commit yourself.