Another 'suggest a bit' post...

R

royal

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 January 2008
Messages
917
Visit site
Hi guys
Currenly using a mullen mouth short shank pelham (2 reins) on my girly as she was 'setting her mouth' in the snaffle and using it to avoid working into the contact, hard to explain but poking her nose out and setting her mouth rock hard against my hand - which resulted in a bit of a fight. The pelham (suggested by RI), means we work ALOT softer together and she doesnt set or fight against it. As a result she is softer and is working better and its kinder on her mouth! I barely use the curb rein at all, most of the time it is loose and only called into play very occassionally and very gently.
However......she can lean on the pelham and drop her head to the extent where her nose is nearly on the ground (this tends to happen about 1/2 hour into a hack)....Nb: she doesn't do this with the mullen mouth snaffle so don't think its the mouthpiece that is encouraging this ...
I wondered if it would be worth trying a dutch gag (with 2 reins) to get the poll pressure to encourage the softness but use the 2nd rein on the lower ring to bring her head up?
I am aware that schooling may and probably will be the answer to this which my RI agree's and we are working on, but in the meantime, the different bit is kinder to both her and me (the mild bit used strongly against stronger bit used mildly kind of thing).
I have a hunt ride in 2 weeks, which I don't want to be carted round with the snaffle with no soft contact, but don't want most of it to be spent with her nose on the ground either!
What do y'all think??
ps. she is relatively fit....obviously I won't be doing the whole hunt ride if I feel at any point she has had enough, there are 3 of us that will hack home when necessary. She is however lazy and I think she's using the pelham to her advantage!

Large G&T to anyone who gets this far! G&T with ice and lemon and a bowl of nuts to those who have any suggestions!!!
 
If you want the poll pressure use your curb rein (however you dont want poll pressure if you want her to raise her head)

Might sound BLATENTLY obvious but if she leans and drops down onto the bit then give her one big quick pony club kick and it causes them to raise their head (i used to ride a pony who did this, then started to buck slightly as she did it to get people off! this was the way I figured out to stop her doing it! but it does take a bit of guts as it can make them jump and go forward faster, but then u just bring them back, and repeat if the head drops!)

If you want a good bit for hunting, i find that 2 reins are a bit of a farse but I dont like dutch gags being used with 1 rein as they are a 2 rein bit!! However you could use a continental gag! (its like a dutch gag but only has 3 rings)

2 mares I ride at the minute I have put them in one at different points in time, the one i use is a copper mouth piece with a lozenge/peanut in the middle. It gives me brakes if I need them, but also gives me a happy horse with a happy mouth for the rest of it.

However for when not hunting but schooling, hacking etc if she is good in the pelham keep her in that, and try the kick up into your hands first, and if that fails then give your hands a quick giggle (not yanking her in the mouth!) to try to get her to pay more attention and pick it up a bit.

Hope this helps a bit!
can i have a g&t please?
smile.gif
 
Sounds like the classic leaner - the continental gag you have suggested will only raise the head to a limited extent and then lower it with poll pressure once its limit is reached.

So my suggestions
1. Use a lozenge pelham - this works much better for the leaner as you are able to raise the head more than a fixed mouthpiece

2. If you really want to raise the head swap to a true running gag (on running cheeks), the ideal may well be a waterford running gag (either loose ring, cheltenham or nelson). However at the moment these are hard to come by! You can try a simple cheltenham gag, but these are not ergonomic, as single jointed and you make find your brakes are gone in it.
 
Thanks Lucy - I know what your saying about the pony club kick to bring her up to me and forward, but at the moment it doesn't work I'm afraid....at all!!- me and the RI are working on this, but it will take some time!!!

I quite like 2 reins so have no probs hunting with them....
The bottom rein on a dutch gag would raise the head which is why I wondering about using one? The top rein would cause the poll pressure so thought ride off the top rein and if she starts bearing down on me, bring bottom rein into play to raise her head....(sorry, I'm one of those people that believe the gag has 2 actions of poll pressure and raising the head!)

LIke the sound of the continental....so will mooch off the have a google....

G&T on its way!!!!

Thanks
 
The first action of a continental gag is to raise the head, so you will only notice it with light contact, and its only going to raise as far as the mouthpiece slides.

If the tank with you, and you use the bottom ring, the leverage is put into action and the head will disappear down.

However the one thing in their favour is the variety of mouthpieces and cheap prices, so why not try a waterford continental gag if you are going down this route?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like the classic leaner - the continental gag you have suggested will only raise the head to a limited extent and then lower it with poll pressure once its limit is reached.

So my suggestions
1. Use a lozenge pelham - this works much better for the leaner as you are able to raise the head more than a fixed mouthpiece

2. If you really want to raise the head swap to a true running gag (on running cheeks), the ideal may well be a waterford running gag (either loose ring, cheltenham or nelson). However at the moment these are hard to come by! You can try a simple cheltenham gag, but these are not ergonomic, as single jointed and you make find your brakes are gone in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for this - I've got a lozenge pelham - tried her in this for a month and she went terribly in it!! No brakes at all and generally was really fussy and horrible in her mouth....set her mouth (tho not as badly as with the snaffle) and was difficult to ride.....

With the cheltenham gag - do you still get poll pressure of some sort?? ie: does it just raise her head or would I still get some softness and roundness with it?? (I'd need to do some research on this bit and prob get my RI to watch me ride with it)...

Again I realise that schooling is the only thing that will correct these issues, but in the meantime I need to find the best way of helping with it both for horsey and me!!
Thanks for the useful help - really appreciated.
 
go back to basics in the menage and hacking ... a snaffle of some sort cheeked, or loose ring, or hanging ......... all diffent actions but subtle and keep the pelhan (braking system) for parties and outings. play around with cheeked, french link, lozenge snafffles. and jointed pelhams (need a shorter curb) lozenged pelhan straight, ported pelhan, and play with curb ..... single chain double chain, leather curb strap, elastic curb strap, d rings etc.
 
[ QUOTE ]
With the cheltenham gag - do you still get poll pressure of some sort?? ie: does it just raise her head or would I still get some softness and roundness with it?? (I'd need to do some research on this bit and prob get my RI to watch me ride with it)...


[/ QUOTE ]

The softness and roundness from the pelham is coming from the curb not poll pressure. On a pelham there is only a very small amount of leverage, if you compare to say the continental and american gags they put significant pressure on the poll, which is why some horses will not go in them.

With a true running gag, there is no real poll pressure, as its a true gag action (i.e. lips more affected than the poll). So if the action of a pelham is producing your outline, there is a high chance you will loose your outline in a running gag.
 
Aaah, I see what your saying - we are working at softness and outline the correct way...without resorting to bits and/or gadgets to produce it, I don't want ppl to think I'm using the pelham just to get her to look pretty!! but no matter who gets on her, she is setting herself against the snaffle....which is why it was suggested to use the pelham to work on the forwardness etc and to sort of teach her how to go softly without any harshness on my hands or her mouth!! (She is lazy and seems to have worked out that if she pokes her nose out and sets against the snaffle, she isn't working as hard!!).

I'm sort of confused about which way to go now!!! I have seen someone at my yard using a snaffle with a curb chain.....is there anything wrong with this do you think?
 
[ QUOTE ]
go back to basics in the menage and hacking ... a snaffle of some sort cheeked, or loose ring, or hanging ......... all diffent actions but subtle and keep the pelhan (braking system) for parties and outings. play around with cheeked, french link, lozenge snafffles. and jointed pelhams (need a shorter curb) lozenged pelhan straight, ported pelhan, and play with curb ..... single chain double chain, leather curb strap, elastic curb strap, d rings etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you say shorter curb with a jointed pelham do you mean tighter? At the moment, I can fit the 2 fingers between the curb and her jaw (with the mullen mouth)
 
Curb chains on snaffles only really work on the mylers with hooks, otherwise the curb strap only serves to stop the bit from being pulled through the mouth.

Would be fair to say that using the hooks on a myler basically = kimblewick

So if you aren't being run away with a kimblewick could be an alternative.

The other thing to produce a bit of poll pressure, but subtle, would be a beval bit (aka wilkie) - these are quite versatile
 
have you tried a straight bar eggbutt snaffle? might be the joint or nut cracker action that the horse objects to? jointed pelhams require a tighter/shorter curb chain or strap as the joint gives the oportunity before the curb chain or strap kicks in. and is also dependant on the shank lenghth. the longer the shank the more severe the bit. but basics are paramount.
 
Hi, yes got a mullen snaffle - she doesn't lean on it but pokes her nose out and sets against me - she doesn't pull my arms out, but is very heavy on my hands/arms in any snaffle....

its quite hard to explain as you would think that being heavy in my hands = leaning, but she isn't bearing down at all in the snaffle, I just feel like I've got 10 tonnes on the end of the reins!
She has got slightly better in the snaffle since using the pelham, so it is starting to work to some extent - she was lovely in walk in the snaffle and only started to set against me when we went into trot....but I'd really like to save the pelham just for showing ...

I'm off to look at Kimblewicks!!...

Thanks everyone, really appreciate your help and advice.
 
I was gonna say kimblewicks might be a good alternative as well (when read the above post suggestion!) they are really nice bits if the horse accepts it, but some horses just don't like it (but its the same with all bits!
smile.gif
)

When out hunting though, I would think that brakes and listening to you is a bit more important than necessarily looking 100% outlines etc (seeing as most dont........ )
 
No, not bothered about outlines etc hunting - just don't want 10 tonnes of horse on the end of my arms for the entire ride!! Or a horse with no head as its disappeared between the knee's!!

Tbh - she doesn't tank off me with me so I'm going to see if I can get a cheapie kimblewick off ebay.

Thanks again guys - large G&T's all round!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top