Another Ulcer thread - here we go again

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emfen1305

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I have actually noticed this topic being brought up a lot recently but still after some advice so sorry if it's been done to death! My horse Toby was scoped last year and had grade 4 ulcers. He was treated and cleared after 4 weeks on Peptizole, did another 4 weeks reducing him down and then I did an overhaul of his feed and started making sure he had always eaten before being ridden. He was still a little off in his backend so xrayed and found mild arthritis in his hocks so had them medicated. Brought him back into work slowly and had a fab 5 months with him, had my old horse back and was just looking and moving really well. At the beginning of the summer he started to go off again, was very lethargic and generally reluctant to do anything, couldn't even get him to hack out positively. Vet recommended to try and get him to lose some weight and build fitness so I did this and he seemed to become more reluctant so definitely thought something was wrong. Had him rescoped on Tuesday as my insurance claim for ulcers will run out next month and he has some grade 2/3 bleeding ulcers in the squamous and none in the pylorus or glandular region (luckily!) So we are back to square 1!

I know that ulcers are usually caused by something else underlying, in the instance before we assumed it was the hocks. The hocks were medicated in January and he is currently in no way stiff or lame at all, either on hard of soft surfaces. He doesn't react to flexions and even when he was sore the first time, the nerve block showed no real change so have currently been advised against re medicating the hocks and using the insurance money on ulcer treatment (same claim). He had a full bone scan at the vets in Jan which showed nothing and both the physio and vet are not convinced there is anything else wrong. Thermal imaging again showed nothing of great significance (actually it didn't even show any heat around his hind end which was where the problem was!!)

The vet can't tell me the cause of the ulcers, I called another vet for a second opinion but they wanted to come out and see him and I don't want to jeopardise my claim (as awful as it sounds at £400 a month for treatment and one month left I just want the insurance to pay it and not ask questions!) so I am bit lost really! I can only assume he has them due to excess acid caused by either stress or pain so I am looking for recommendations on a supplement to help ease the excess acid if there is any as well as protect the stomach lining. If i can get this under control I will hopefully be in a better position to assess if the ulcers were causing his ridden issues or something else.

He is currently fed:

-a token amount readymash fibre (will be swapped to solution mash as its lower in sugar and starch)
-spillers lite balancer
-mug of linseed
-token amount of healthy tummy so he can't gobble the mash
-adlib haylage (just moved him back onto adlib, it was being weighed before, I can't have hay as he won't eat it and is the type of horse to refuse to eat rather than eat something he doesn't want!)

I am looking at feeding Protexin AcidEase as seems to do everything I want. He is currently on Equishure whilst on the Peptizole to make sure his hindgut isn't compromised so also want a good gut balancer when he comes off of this. I have also looked at aloe vera juice but have no idea where to get it from or how much to feed! Does anybody have any other recommendations? I am open to most things! I am also going to buy a bag of Alfa A to feed a scoop before I ride rather than haylage.

Sorry this is so long, i didn't mean for it to be! If you're anywhere around the north west I will personally deliver some chocolate to you!
 
Just a few thoughts

- have you ever tried him on soaked hay if he won't eat it dry?
- l-glutamine has been a great addition to my horses diet, but it's hard to get hold of as it isn't technically approved as a horse feed. Forage Plus can advise.
- I use a Thunderbrooks herbal supplement which has slippery elm in it. I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot. (Think it's called gut restore)

Stress causes my mare's ulcers to kick off. She has underlying physical problems, but they don't seem to be the trigger. The last time was when she was ill with abacterial infection - cost me a fortune as insurance is long gone!
 
If you're already feeding Dengie Healthy Tummy why not feed that before riding rather than buying Alfa A? Just wondering.....

If vet can't tell you cause of ulcers I guess they are more stress rather than pain related, so maybe looking at the general management aspects of his life: turnout, companionship, dynamics within the herd etc etc
 
Dr Marlin posted a very interesting article on FB the other day, where it was shown that EHV was found to have caused ulcers, especially in horses who were refractory to standard treatment.
 
SEL said:
Just a few thoughts

- have you ever tried him on soaked hay if he won't eat it dry?
- l-glutamine has been a great addition to my horses diet, but it's hard to get hold of as it isn't technically approved as a horse feed. Forage Plus can advise.
- I use a Thunderbrooks herbal supplement which has slippery elm in it. I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot. (Think it's called gut restore)

Stress causes my mare's ulcers to kick off. She has underlying physical problems, but they don't seem to be the trigger. The last time was when she was ill with abacterial infection - cost me a fortune as insurance is long gone!
Click to expand...

Yes tried soaking the hay and it was met with even more disdain! As silly as it sounds, he can see the haylage from his stable and he knows that as soon as i get down he gets a bag to munch on while mucking out so refuses to eat anything else. I tried half and half but he left most of the hay and then i tried only hay for a few nights and when i weighed the net in the morning he still had 5kg and the vet said better for him to be eating haylage than not eating at all!

I'll look into the l-glutamine, thanks, i've been comparing all of the ingredients of all of the supplements i am looking at to make sure the one i get will do what I want! Thunderbrooks stuff is on that list and i spoke to them at Equifest so definitely a contender!

I have done everything to minimise the stress but I am going to put him back on a calmer to see if that helps. He never looks stressed, very chilled in the field and stable and only gets a bit het up if we hack out where we haven't been before so hoping the calmer may help!

Thank you, it's just so difficult to know what to do for the best!
 
gunnergundog said:
If you're already feeding Dengie Healthy Tummy why not feed that before riding rather than buying Alfa A? Just wondering.....

If vet can't tell you cause of ulcers I guess they are more stress rather than pain related, so maybe looking at the general management aspects of his life: turnout, companionship, dynamics within the herd etc etc
Click to expand...

That's a good point, the only reason is the vet recommended a heaped stubbs scoop and I was worried that it might be a bit much for him calorie wise (he currently gets a handful!)

I think I'm going to look for a calmer to see if that helps, he used to be on one but took him off as was worried it was contributing to him being so laid back! I think he might be an internal worrier and he had a horrendous week at the beginning of year at the horspital so wondering whether actually that's what caused them to come back!
 
If you are following this thread then we would really appreciate hearing your views on EGUS.

WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT GASTRIC ULCERS IN HORSES

*** PLEASE SHARE ***

This survey has been compiled by a group of vets and scientists with a special interest in EGUS (EQUINE GASTRIC ULCER SYNDROME).

#### WE WANT TO HEAR YOUR VIEWS IF YOU LIVE IN THE UK & WHETHER OR NOT YOUR HORSE HAS HAD GASTRIC ULCERS ###

We are interested in people's perception of EGUS, where they obtain information on EGUS and what treatments they are aware of.

The survey is open to anyone living in the United Kingdom (UK) i.e. England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland and has 17 questions and should take ~10 min to complete.

The survey is anonymous and no personal information will be collected that could identify you.

The results of this survey will help to ensure that horse owners are given the best education and advice to help them recognise EGUS and manage their horses optimally.

Dr David Marlin, Cambridge, UK.
Dr Ben Sykes, BW Sykes Consultancy & School of Veterinary Sciences, The University of
Queensland, Australia
Dr Kirstie Pickles, Chine House Veterinary Hospital
Dr Jane Williams, Hartpury College

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/Owner_EGUS
 
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