Another vet visit question!

Clodagh

Clodagh

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I bravely dip my toes into the waters again here.
The vet asked if we would be spaying the puppy, yes we will. Vet said it should be done at 6 months. I said no, I want her to have a season and be at least a year/18 months old. Vet said there is no proof that incontincence increases in large breeds with early spaying and that the risk of mammary tumours increases by 10% every season. How can they be so certain? So eventually all entire bitches have 100% chance of tumours!?
Also, as an aside, bitches spayed as pups always seem puppyish to me, is that right?
Vet also said there was a high risk of pregnancy every season - LOL - I said it depends if she has sex or not!
 
Ours have all been done after a first season. Have been fine and not puppyish at all. Up to you but that set up has always worked for us. Our maincoon cat on the other hand was done at 6 months
 
I think the advice depends on the vet. I was at first advised to have my lurcher speyed at 6 months (which I did not agree with). She was prone to pee when excited and I'd heard that early speying does not help with this. Next vaccination appointment was with a different practice member (younger) who advised me to leave speying until after her first season. So we waited, and sure enough the peeing stopped after her first season. However when I was recounting this to a friend she said she wished she's heard this earlier as she's had her bitch puppy speyed at 6 months and she was still incontinent at 3 years!
 
OH is also of the have a season first persuasion among vets. Difficult to have a proper evidence based medicine study as each dog is different. I know 2 labs speyed pre 1st season. 1 incontinent, 1 fine. Think it's also personality and being more grown up for him as well. His opinion on cats is for early neutering. Less easy to prevent sex and kittenish behaviour is fun!
 
Good to hear Wishful. Thanks LJR.
I will stick with this practice while I use the course of jabs and microchipping I have paid for but then will be moving on.
One more thing... she goes back at 16 weeks for parvo, is that a new jab? I don't remember our older lab having that.
 
Clodagh said:
Vet said there is no proof that incontincence increases in large breeds with early spaying and that the risk of mammary tumours increases by 10% every season. How can they be so certain? So eventually all entire bitches have 100% chance of tumours!?
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IIRC the risk of mammary tumours increases until the 4th season (or 4th year - I cannot remember which without looking it up at work tomorrow :o) at which point there is no reduction in risk offered by spaying. Spaying before the first season offers the most protection against mammary tumours.

Research shows no evidence of an increase in urinary incontinence in spayed bitches. Anecdotally we see as many intact bitches with incontinence as spayed ones, if not slightly more.

The risk of pyo increases with every season and approaches something like a one in four chance by age 8 (again IIRC, must do my homework!)

Hormones have a role to play in growth so for larger breeds so many would advocate spaying after the first season for that reason, not so much an issue with smaller breeds. There've been a few very tentative links between early neutering and incidence of things like cruciate injury in certain breeds.

I had my medium breed bitch (25kg adult weight) spayed at six months and would probably do so again. The only way in which she is 'puppyish' is that her vulva is small in appearance and she has no observable nipples....! No incontinence, no behavioural problems that weren't down to lack of socialisation and training in her first homes.
 
Search for an article on the effects of early spay and neuter by Christine zink. It makes very interesting reading as the research shows that early neuter ncreases the risk of bone cancer, ligament and tendon problems. Animals neutered young also tend to grow leggy and tall as here are no hormones to tell the growth plates to fuse as these normally do at puberty
 
Clodagh, not sure what breed you have but most large breeds don't physically mature until 24 months and don't socially/psychologically mature until 36 months minimum. The latter is important as the change in hormones from speying can effect the dogs outlook on life!

I've had dogs that have had first seasons at 9 months and 29 months (same breed!)......I would certainly not have wanted to be speying the 9 month old after the first season! I have seen the retention of puppy-ish behaviour in early neutered bitches....some but not all - not sure what the deciding factor is.
 
gunnergundog said:
Clodagh, not sure what breed you have but most large breeds don't physically mature until 24 months and don't socially/psychologically mature until 36 months minimum. The latter is important as the change in hormones from speying can effect the dogs outlook on life!

I've had dogs that have had first seasons at 9 months and 29 months (same breed!)......I would certainly not have wanted to be speying the 9 month old after the first season! I have seen the retention of puppy-ish behaviour in early neutered bitches....some but not all - not sure what the deciding factor is.
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She is a lab, and is intended for working. Our older lab was spayed after the first season and is a cracking worker, still a fool sometimes playing wise but I think that is more being a lab than being immature.

olop300314031_zps834721a6.jpg


Gratuitous photo moment...she looks panicked there as had just been bowled over in the open by two older dogs.
 
Hate to admit it but a lot of gundogs get speyed at the convenience of the shooting season......in other words to minimise the time lost picking up or whatever, regardless of physical/social maturity....IME. :(

PS She's lovely!
 
Thank you. She is lovely, but a very different kettle of fish to the rather timid one we already have. They are very differently bred and my OH reckons this one is terrier x spaniel!
 
She's lovely. Personally I would wait till after first season - my first dog was done at 6 months at the insistance of the rescue centre and she had problems with dribbling/incontinence for the rest of her life. This may have been in part because the vet that did her made a mess of her. My current collie was done after she had one season at around 12 months (season at about 9 months) and never had any problems with her although she had a much better surgery.
 
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