"answers about UK Stallion Expo II"

M

martinevandam

New User
Joined
20 December 2009
Messages
8
Visit site
“So basically the guide is not free to stallions owners or mare owners.”

No, and with a print cost of £6 per copy, why should it be? Very little of what is free is worth having.

“Your guide is only published once the year, so after the event it is already old news”

Not really unless all of the stallions drop dead the day after the Expo, and the very well written articles lose all relevance overnight.

“I can still see only 21 stallions confirmed as attending”

There are 65 confirmed, and some of those we are waiting for payment (this is the horse world after all). We can only put up the photos and details of those stallions that we have those details for, ergo, we are waiting for many of the owners to get their information to us. To get the standard of the information up to that required in France and Holland, many stallion owners have had to do a fair bit of study especially about the mother lines which we are asking for, and they have all learned things about their stallions, so not a bad lesson for all and hopefully interesting for the mare owners.

As the main person dealing with the stallion owners, trade stands and advertisers for the Expo, I wish that the small number of you that are knocking the Expo would just stop. The Expo is here to stay and we are already planning for 2011, whether you like it or not more than 95% of the people that we have spoken to have totally supported what we are doing. Only 6 stallion owners have stated that they aren’t interested because of the organiser, that’s a tiny fraction of the 220 stallion owners we have spoken to. The professionals have been buying adverts and trade stands like there is no tomorrow and both of our targets for those will be filled.

It’s a shame that we didn’t get 100 stallions, but 65 is a big number for the UK by any standard, perhaps my boss was a little too ambitious in this market. We tried to get Grafenstolz into St Lo on 21st February, but the waiting list was huge (even with our contacts), with all 120 places gone in October. It’s just another year until the Expo is in the same position.

I personally hope that the PSHP benefit from the upsurge in interest in their stallion parades, but we saw that happen last year with the Futurity prizes didn’t we? It’s no secret that the PSHP is well behind the event, and we thank them for their support. This Expo is a good thing whatever a few people may think, and we take our hats off to those stallion owners who have taken the plunge, the trade stand owners and the advertisers who have had the confidence in us and our product. We look forward to seeing out clients and visitors next month, and then again (probably thousands of times) and again and again and again and again on Horse and Country TV.
 
[ QUOTE ]

“I can still see only 21 stallions confirmed as attending”

There are 65 confirmed, and some of those we are waiting for payment (this is the horse world after all).

[/ QUOTE ]

We were previously catergorically told by yourself, on this forum, Martine, that over 70 stallions were confirmed and fully paid up with another 40 pending.

Now 65 are confirmed, but not all paid.

So clearly, Martine's first statement was untrue.

28 stallions are now on the website, with another 5, I think, mentioned elsewhere. This makes me wonder mightily whether the "65 confirmed" is also untrue.


[ QUOTE ]
To get the standard of the information up to that required in France and Holland, many stallion owners have had to do a fair bit of study especially about the mother lines which we are asking for, and they have all learned things about their stallions, so not a bad lesson for all and hopefully interesting for the mare owners.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel sure most competent stallion owners have a pretty good idea about the breeding of their boys; if I were a stallion owner wishing to display a horse at this event this disparaging view of my competence as a British breeder would be enough by itself to put me off, particularly as the website doesn't seem able to reflect the competence of its advertisers to the extent, in many cases, of adding the names of their stallions' sires and dams, or, where these are added, of getting them correct.


[ QUOTE ]
As the main person dealing with the stallion owners, trade stands and advertisers for the Expo, I wish that the small number of you that are knocking the Expo would just stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think, Martine, that you need to take on board that the expo is NOT being "knocked". Questioning misleading, untruthful advertising is not "knocking" the event.
 
"I feel sure most competent stallion owners have a pretty good idea about the breeding of their boys; if I were a stallion owner wishing to display a horse at this event this disparaging view of my competence as a British breeder would be enough by itself to put me off, particularly as the website doesn't seem able to reflect the competence of its advertisers to the extent, in many cases, of adding the names of their stallions' sires and dams, or, where these are added, of getting them correct."

In their defence you would be surprised at the amount of stallion owners who DO NOT know the ins & outs of their stallions breeding.

Everyone of your posts jamesmead have been nothing but knocking of this event. In the last lot of threads I believe you were one of the first posters to get your little snipes in. Cant you just leave it, are we not all aware of the pit falls connected with KR? Unless you have just dropped out of the sky I cant imagine many people have not heard about him on the forums. You are like a little terrier, just cant let go. And yes to an outsider you do sound like you are knocking it every chance you get. How many people are now not aware of the discrepancies from previous posts. A case of here we go again, back on the flipping merry go round!!
 
Well, regardless of what anyone says about the Stallion Expo, I would just like to congratulate Martine on how the standard of her written English, phraseology, grammar, use of colloquialisms etc. has come on leaps and bounds. From previously being a little stilted and poorly spelt, and on occasion obviously literal translation from her native tongue to English, in this last reply you'd almost think she was an Englishman born and bred.

Why, you'd think KR wrote this himself, but that obviously wouldn't happen, because as we all keep being told, he is a very honest man, so would never post using someone else's Login, pretending to be that person. Therefore, 5 gold stars for Martine.
 
As a stallion owner who WILL be attending this event with their stallion, can I just ask you guys that are certain it is going to be a failure to give it a rest until after the event, when you can then say 'told you so' if it isn't the success that those of us commited to participate hope it will be. If you aren't presenting a stallion or taking a trade stand then I guess you have nothing to lose by potentially putting people off attending, but there are many of us that are investing time and money that actually would like the expo to do well
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
You are like a little terrier, just cant let go.

[/ QUOTE ]
grin.gif
Thanks, Magic; I'll take that as a compliment. Sure enough, when I smell a rat I just gotta go for it!
 
Magic and Gan1,what you are then saying is that it is ok for this to be continually advertised on here, but nobody is allowed to have their say if they have questions for the organisers about their dubious ways of marketing the event? Nobody has once said that this kind of event is not good, but what people have are questions regarding it. If the organisers wish to come on to forums to promote such events, then they have to stand by their convictions when questions are asked.

The organisers make reference to what happens in Holland and France. What happens there is "fact" not "fiction". Nobody in their right mind who state what numbers are entered for an event without having the exact facts, which you don’t seem to have, as the numbers go from 100 to 70, to 65 and even then only 20+ are advertised 4 weeks before the event.

Yes, we all know what the horse world is like, but don’t run before you can walk, and don’t make promises that are fiction!

[ QUOTE ]
we are waiting for many of the owners to get their information to us. To get the standard of the information up to that required in France and Holland, many stallion owners have had to do a fair bit of study especially about the mother lines which we are asking for, and they have all learned things about their stallions, so not a bad lesson for all and hopefully interesting for the mare owners.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let’s look at a handful of those stallions currently on the website with no breeding yet:

Randi, Zubin R, Valeur R, Woodlander Rockstar, Treliver Decanter

So what you are saying (and I have quoted above) is that the owners of the above stallions know nothing about the bloodlines of their horses? Way to go, not a bad effort at alienating those owners who are backing your event! If that were me, I think I would be a little angry and you coming out with this statement!

This event would have stood up to being much more "professional" had the organisers told the truth, kept quiet on "actual" stallion numbers until all were paid up and basically just let the event speak for itself.
 
I am sure that other stallion owners, like myself have found out even more about their stallion's bloodlines. As we are constantly reminded we tend to focus on the sires and forget the dams. Through further investigation into the dam lines I discovered that my boy's GGS Palfrenier was full brother to Zaniki - dam of Ekstein, and that his GGGS Vanitas was out of the same mare as Cabochon. I don't suppose Martine was suggesting that owners previously know nothing about their stallion's breeding.

I am not suggesting, nomis, that you are not entitled to your say, what I am suggesting is that perhaps it is more down to the people parting with their money to be questioning numbers etc. I for one am happy with the service I have paid for so far, and look forward to the event being covered by Horse and Country TV (I have friends who work there so know it is going to happen as promised) For the advertising that my stallion will receive from the event I feel I have got a good deal on the price I have paid!
 
"Magic and Gan1,what you are then saying is that it is ok for this to be continually advertised on here, but nobody is allowed to have their say if they have questions for the organisers about their dubious ways of marketing the event? Nobody has once said that this kind of event is not good, but what people have are questions regarding it. If the organisers wish to come on to forums to promote such events, then they have to stand by their convictions when questions are asked.

No not at all. First of all everytime any of us replies to the thread it gives it more attention. Secondly we have been made aware of the dubious marketing etc every single time that is is past boring. If people on here cant make their own minds up without all this being continually dragged up, then that is quiet sad. It is time to move on for christ sake. Yes we can push the ignore button (if I knew where it was) & yes we can avoid the threads. What I would like to know is why are the same bashers still bashing, are they stallion owners?? What is the point of keep dragging up what has now past. If you dont want to take part in this marketing ploy you have that option. No one is forcing you to take your stallion (if you have one), a trade stand (if you have one) or even turning up as a spectator. Therefore I would leave the people who do want to get involved to get on with it.
 
Can I just ask, how do you guys know for sure that nomis and JamesMead are not stallion owners? And that they don't have stallions going to the event? Just because they choose not to use forums to push the fact that they are stallion owners, doesn't mean that they aren't and that they haven't put their money forwards to back this event. I have no idea either, it was just something I thought I'd share.

Regardless of the above, we've all heard the saying "Lies, lies and damn statistics". Numbers are all to easily manipulated right up until the actual weekend of the Expo I reckon we will still be guessing HOW many stallions and exactly WHO will be attending. I just find the whole thing so very unprofessionally dealt with from the very base upwards. Incorrect pictures of stallions, obvious spelling mistakes, quoting of numbers on public forums that are inconsistent with the numbers advertised and then blaming the owners of the stallions for not paying up - which when those fees are paid and the stallions are posted online/in the guide, it won't take a rocket scientist to think "hmmm do I want to deal with the promoter/owner of this stallion if they are slow to pay?" It's very insulting and potentially damaging to business to state that stallions owners need to pay up. One of the first rules of business is "the customer/client is always right". You could also apply the old "don't bite the hand that feeds you" to this as well.

In short, I am VERY disappointed in the way the Expo has been handled. It's an excellent idea and I do wish it well, but goodness it appears to need a miracle to happen for it draw in the 2000 attendees it "guaranteed" stallion owners!
 
Can I just ask, how do you guys know for sure that nomis and JamesMead are not stallion owners?

Exactly where did anyone say they weren't stallion owners? Forgive me but I am sure it was asked as a question not a statement.
 
How about those two actually putting their "real names" to their comments and then we will know exactly who is who and why they are continually having a go at the event and the stallion publication.

If they have nothing to hide and dont actually also sign in other other names, they will not mind doing this. It seems ok for them to have a go at KR but maybe they are doing exactly what they say he does!

BY THE WAY - I have grudge to bear with any of these people, just totally fed up with the continued flack this stallion expo is getting before its has happened. Whether its good for british breeding or a total flop - does it actually matter to those "throwing the stones"
 
I think one of the problems early on, was if this does fail and breeders have their fingers and pockets burnt, would they be willing to trust anyone else to run one again?

However, there are now a fair few stallions who I know are confirmed booked and I do know some people who have taken trade stands, so it should still be something very worth seeing - I personally very much want to see Adonnis in the flesh as well as Singing Horatio, Romarnic Ranger, Wolkenderry and a few others.

I do think it is fair to question numbers though and what people are being told...many may be coming from long distances to see over 60 stallions, yet may find only mid 20s - so I do think it reasonable. I also have not seen anyone knocking the participants or the idea of a show itself. It is much needed.

We only have a month to wait and hopefully for all those going, it will be a huge success.
 
I would like to point out, as the owner of Valeur R, that I only emailed over my information on Thursday night at about 11pm so it would not have been possible for the organisers to post that information.

I have organised dressage clinics and open days etc and I can back up how difficult it is to get money/information out of horse owners.

Let’s look at a handful of those stallions currently on the website with no breeding yet:

Randi, Zubin R, Valeur R, Woodlander Rockstar, Treliver Decanter

So what you are saying (and I have quoted above) is that the owners of the above stallions know nothing about the bloodlines of their horses? Way to go, not a bad effort at alienating those owners who are backing your event! If that were me, I think I would be a little angry and you coming out with this statement!

This event would have stood up to being much more "professional" had the organisers told the truth, kept quiet on "actual" stallion numbers until all were paid up and basically just let the event speak for itself.
<font color="blue"> </font>

I am not in the least bit angry about this statement. I have discovered more information about my stallion than I previously knew.

I would also like to point out that the communication from the organisers has been excellent and I have been kept informed of numbers, trade stands, sponsors etc the whole way through.

The same small group of you are continually knocking this event. You are not politely questioning the organisers but rather hounding anything that is put up and trying to discredit everything going on. And you are making yourselves look like poisonous, spiteful and unprofessional people.

Personally I think this event could prove to be value for money for the stallion owners. That is why I paid up my money and will be taking Val. I have found the organisers open minded and willing to discuss any aspect of the event.

Now please can you all act like adults rather than scholl ground bullies.
 
I have been watching with interest. I actually don't believe anyone has damned the expo at all, in fact I think EVERYONE agrees that it could be a good thing for this country.
TE; I feel you saying and I quote - "And you are making yourselves look like poisonous, spiteful and unprofessional people." - unfounded. Yes people are wary of the organiser, with good reason I believe. The query on entry numbers has not helped his reputation.
I think the expo will be helpful to British Breeding, more help than his elite sale anyway! I'll wait and see what actually happens in 4 weeks time before I say anymore!
 
Well I am going to agree to disagree, because the tone of some threads is def challenging. Posters may not be saying its a bad idea, but they sure as hell are doing everything possible to pick at every little descrapancy. Then there is the comment that the original poster was putting down stallion owners for their lack of breeding knowledge, well that is a fact. As a mare owner who has enquired about a number of stallions I know full well that some are pretty vague when it comes down to the bloodlines making up their stallions breeding.
 
Without wishing to single Taylored out particularly I have selected a quote from her to illustrate my position.

[ QUOTE ]
The same small group of you are continually knocking this event. You are not politely questioning the organisers but rather hounding anything that is put up and trying to discredit everything going on. And you are making yourselves look like poisonous, spiteful and unprofessional people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it very hard to remain polite to someone who has previously, without accuracy, called me a liar on an open forum whilst demonstrably being economical with the truth herself; but so far I think I have just about managed. "Politely questioning" has been shown not to work; all that is left is to demonstrate that the figures given do not work either. I fail to see how pointing out an earlier, and seemingly quite deliberate deceit can be "poisonous, spiteful and unprofessional". My feeling is that these things are best out in the open for the good of us all and I reserve the right to comment honestly on what, to me, seems dishonest and doesn't add up.


[ QUOTE ]
Personally I think this event could prove to be value for money for the stallion owners. That is why I paid up my money and will be taking Val.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there is a shortfall in the number of stallions - and it looks as if there will be, doesn't it- certainly less than the original hundred promised - those who do go should do well, having less competition and more of the limelight.

However, I am not a stallion owner, this time round; I am a mare owner. Those mare owners, like me, that turn up expecting to pay their money and see 100 (now 65?) stallions are not going to do nearly so well, if their choice is actually reduced to - what? 50%? 25%? They are actually going to get very poor value for money. So my view is not as yours, Taylored; where you do well, I lose out.

So from where I stand, the unprofessionalism is in the hushing up of this serious question of who- and how many- are going to be present- not in the questioning of it.

As to anonymity; on a forum where real names are demanded I would operate under my own name or I would forgo the forum if I felt the forum contained vicious elements which would leave me open to spiteful off-forum attacks. Here we have the protection of anonymity; and, to judge by the recent on-forum behaviour of certain members, the vicious element exists; so thankyou, "the future"- I will retain my anonymity, as you do yours.
 
I am absolutely clueless (as usual) to the politics surrounding this event, but I think it is somewhere local to me and would like to attend. I have PM'd the OP but had no reply, can someone tell me where it is being held? Does anyone know how much tickets are? Hope this doesn't put me on the wrong side!
 
Thank you, have just done so. I missed it the first time I tried as I only read the website address and thought it was a dealers website! Duh... It's very local, hopefully see some of you there!
 
I have just been on the Expo website and, as it states, there are 28 days to go.

What I don’t understand is, at the moment there are 28 stallions listed on the 'official site' for this event, but the organizers have stated in the original post on this thread 65 stallions are confirmed. So my point is: -

Are the 37 stallion owners who are not listed, satisfied that they have paid their entry fee and are not getting as much exposure as the 28 horses which are listed. If I had entered my stallion and was not getting the same service as everyone else I would be seriously miffed (to say the least). In theory those 37 stallions will have paid £200 for their 5/10 minute slot in front of the spectators and that is it, where as 28 other stallions will have had weeks of exposure on the website from the organisers.

That part of the math does not add up to me. I find it hard to believe that 37 stallion owners are more than happy to sit back and watch other peoples horses being promoted above their own, for the same amount of money, sorry but it does not make sense.

However if it is the case, then I didn't realise we had so many stallion owners in the UK, who are more than happy to pay money for a service they are not receiving, yet others are.

Strange, but true!

There of course could be more on the facebook page, but I am one of those people that doesn't do facebook, I prefer to go to the 'official site' to get my info.
 
[ QUOTE ]
How about those two actually putting their "real names" to their comments and then we will know exactly who is who and why they are continually having a go at the event and the stallion publication.!

[/ QUOTE ]

And with a username of "TheFuture" your point is?

Firstly you will be hard pushed to find one post of mine that actually belittles the concept?

The point to all my posts is this - Credentials for any event are higher if “fact" is involved.

The organisers, by their own admission above, had high hopes for entries, but the falsehood regarding stallion numbers is what people are questioning, and why should they not?

Mare owners will be attending the event “as they have been promised” on the official website to see a large volume of stallions in one place. Do not tell people that 100 stallions are entered, when this is not the case (trade descriptions act and all that), be truthful to people whose money you are taking.

The organisers would have far more respect towards them if they were factual and honest, rather than sensationalizing something purely for personal gain. They have to remember that if people attend and find out there are only a handful of entries (compared to the promises made) and they have paid good money to come and view the event, then it is unlikely to be a future success.

Added to this I am amazed that people, by their own admission on a forum, are standing stallions at stud, but do not have full knowledge of the product they are marketing. One of the rules in business is “always know your product”.
 
and you are right that is the main separation point here...it is not pro expo or anti expo from what I can see, it is mare owners / stallion owners.

Those entered will get exposure - those coming to see the event may not get anywhere near what they wanted to see and have a right to know ahead of time who exactly will be there.

Personally, I would have gone even if only 25 stallions were to be present - I would have felt that a good day out in itself. Always better to anticipate less and then say - when all entries are in, paid for and advertised that "stallion entries have far exceeded our expectations" than have this scrabble of numbers going on.

I am looking forward to it anyway, I have never been to a stallion show, having been lucky enough to have seen both stallions I have used without having to do so. This saves me travelling around too much (though I already know who I am using this year) it will give me an idea for next year - particularly in relation to the eventing stallions which I don't have any experience of at all.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Added to this I am amazed that people, by their own admission on a forum, are standing stallions at stud, but do not have full knowledge of the product they are marketing. One of the rules in business is “always know your product”.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standing my stallion at stud is not my first line of business, there are other aspects of my life that I have to devote time to. I have spent many hours researching his bloodlines, and have discovered even more as a result of being asked to go into more detail on the damline. I am relatively new to the world of breeding, I have only owned my stallion for 18months. I have found the vast majority of people very helpful, and am very grateful to them for guiding me in the right direction as to where to look to find out information, but you don't get an instruction manual when you buy/breed a stallion on how to research bloodlines and the best marketing strategies, sometimes you have to learn as you go along!

ETS First and foremost he is my competition horse, the fact that he is a breeding stallion is an exciting extra that brings a whole new dimension to horse ownership for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top