Answers on a postcard pls... Bits

Queenbee

Queenbee

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 August 2007
Messages
12,020
Location
Cumbria
Visit site
Hi all, I will keep it brief, Ben is working well and doing fabulous, for those of you who don't know of him, he is my little 15.2 mud monster and just turned 3 1/2. Since backing he has been in a loose ring double link with a lozenge (copper mix) now when we hack alone he is pretty damn near perfect, but he can get a wee bit enthusiastic when in company even when he is at the front. He has only ridden out in company about 5 times so am hoping that with time, he will relax... Pretty sure he will. He's a good boy really, strides out well, comes straight back if we have a canter when asked to trot. His issue is in trot, he gets a bit rushy and strong, and tries to jog out at the begining of a hack. I an finding that sometimes it feels like I am having to be stronger than I would like to be with the reins. I'd like something that means that when I need brakes I have them without having to be in anyway heavy handed if you see what I mean. Im looking for something the next level up from what I have. He is going to be hacked out from now on at least twice a week in company, by someone else during the week whilst I am at work and hampered by the dark nights :( and I want to get this sorted for that. Any suggestions please? I'm thinking Something with slight poll pressure Would suit him, and I want to invest in a decent bit, ideally a mix again, a ns or something like that. Please any suggestions would be gratefully received the last time I changed bits was about 6 yrs ago and there are so many new makes on the market... I don't want anything that's harsher than he needs, just something that helps with giving him a clear message first time... Thank you
 
I wouldnt change it. Its just making sure youngsters know whats expected, hes coming back when you ask, and as hes a 3yr old I would expect it to be a little bit exciting!

If hes settled in his mouth, and confident to go forward dont change that IMO!!
 
A difficult one. I can see where you are coming from but, to play devil's advocate, if you use a stronger bit now, when he is only 3.5, then what are you going to do when he hits the terrible 5's? I would be inclined to say that if you are managing now then stick with it, work on the schooling and asking him to be more responsive to you rather than upping the pressure on a baby.
 
My problem is he throws his head up and trots off like a trotter, it's almost like I have to give an extra hard 'jab' with the rein for want of a better word as if to say 'hey!' he then slows his trot, at which point I slip the reins a wee bit and he drops his head, for the most part once I have done this I can pretty much control his pace from my seat, but I hate the 'jab' bit :( I do foresee that I will have to go up a notch when we get to competing or hunting (probably a couple of notches for this! :D) believe me, I'm not one for popping a harsher bit in than necessary but I fully realise that even a snaffle can be harsh if you have to use extra 'force' it feels like this at the moment, I'd rather have a slightly stronger bit in and use it more sparingly, than have to do what I'm doing when he rushes ahead in trot :( I totally appreciate what you are saying, and on our own, he is chilled and steady in trot and if anything you have to get on his case slightly in walk but with the 'gang' he is just brimming with enthusiasm! Oh what it is to be young ;)
 
your expecting it all too soon IMO. He isnt going to go out like a dope on a rope, he isnt going to have nice head carriage all the time (yet!) and there are gonna be times when he gets excited.

Would I make a big deal about it now from what you've described. Frankly no...

Maybe a martingale would be better, gives you a neckstrap and stops him breaking your nose if he does get excited.

you arent going to be hunting for atleast a year or so, nor competing for a few months due to his age.
 
I wouldn't change bits either. If he's getting fast in trot, I'd just do plenty of walk/trot transistions. And if you have difficulty with the downwards transistion in a group hack, I'd stick with hacking with one steady companion till next summer when he's old enough to do more schooling wise in preparation for exciting situations.
 
The thing is, when they are bouncy I normally just sit there and let them get on with it, yawn a few times, laugh a couple of times and growl at the them once until they chill, I have however ridden my fair share of idiot horses who were allowed to jog, prat around before I got them and it really wears thin, I don't want this to become habit. LIR thats a good point and I should say I'm not even necessarily thinking about using this bit as the new 'all the time bit' with Ebs she had her jumping and hunting bit, the rest of her life she was in the bit he now has. That kind of what I'm planning, use the new bit to get him out of this habit then reintroduce the snaffle, it's certainly not a bit that I want to disregard with him as I think it's fab for schooling and horses tend not to get 'dull' to it, and only use the next level if he starts to get full of himself. So hopefully this bit could still be used when he hits all his next terrible stages, although this one really isn't that terrible, it's not behaviour I want to encourage but bless him he is so very sweet, we went on a walk trot hack and he kept breaking into canter... Such slow tentative strides, he knew he wasn't supposed to but he was so excited an happy :D I absolutely don't want to damage that enthusiasm it makes me want to cuddle him when he does that, just the stupid jogging and charging in trot like he's a gypsy trotter in a race ;) i can stop him in this bit, but I hate hate hate the way
I have to get his attention. With regards to schooling, I will be doing one session in the school and one alone hack at the weekend during both these sessions I can work on the responsiveness but it's hard to do when you're out with others sometimes :(
 
Loopylou, I don't see how I'm asking too much and yes he does have a martingale on, a running one which lets face it won't keep his head down and I would never ever put a standing on a baby. I'm not asking for a 'nice head carriage' although he naturally carries one in walk :) I'm asking for him to let me see over the top of his head when I start trotting him :) his first couple of trots are always the worst and the first one when we turn for home ;) he just seems to have endless energy! And I know I'm not going to be hunting for a while, and not competing until march with a couple of indoor shows, I know we have plenty of time, I don't think it is rushing to want to put a bit in my horses mouth that means I have to use less pressure on his mouth to be able to get his attention whilst working on things such as schooling and responsiveness and letting him get used to hacking in groups... Any by groups I mean never more than three and there is always one older horse and one othet youngster, it is always a sensible hack with lots of walk trot transitions and one canter if any. I am more than happy to take other peoples advice on here but I just feel uncomfortable giving him a 'jab' I mean it's not a right yank but it makes me uncomfortable doing it, :(
 
Sorry ll, was writing the above post when you posted sorry you feel that way, I'm trying to explain that I feel uncomfortable and like I'm having to jab my horse in his mouth and you're telling me to stick with that. I'm not sure whether I agree with you but I was open to opinions but then I also in particular asked for reccomendations for another bit. I know some people religiously ride their youngsters in certain bits for clarity of signals etc. perhaps you are unable to reccomend something or empathise with the fact that I feel uncomfortable jabbing him in the mouth, I was merely posting my feelings and experiences about the subject and had by no means made my
Mind up. Thank you for your input anyway
 
Little legs, we do a fair amount of transitions but to be fair could probably encourporate some more into our alone hacks, in general walk to halt, canter to trot, trot to walk are all pretty good for a baby, it's the 'getting his attention and bringing him back within trot' and stopping him jogging... The jogging isn't overly frequent and in my younger days I would have really laughed at it but I know how habit forming it can be and I know what it's like to ride a jogger :) if I change his bit it isn't going to be done tomorrow, it's something I'm debating and would look at more closely this time next month, who knows, by then he will have been out during the week with company a further 8 times and this may be an issue of the past!!
 
There's no way I would be bitting up at that age I would be backing off and managing situation so he did not get to the ignoring the bit stage .
Is it a standing martingale or a running one ?
The only thing I would try is swopping to a simple loose ring myler snaffle and see if the sutle change of action helps also swopping between the myler and what you are using might help.
The other thing I always do and it might be a good thing to consider is training him to stop when you pull on a neck strap and say whoa whoa .
 
Why won't you consider a standing martingale on him? It would be the obvious solution to your problem.

If you want a stronger bit a pelham or a 3 ring bubble bit will both lower the head. You can get a pelham with a flexible rubber mouthpiece. You can put a curb strap on a bubble bit, it won't be in the right place but may help, an old flash strap will do. You can get French link or lozenge bubble bits, among others.

You'll make him hard mouthed if you keep having to jab at him to get a response, but a standing martingale to keep his head at an acceptable height will allow your current snaffle to work on the part of the mouth its supposed to meaning no need to jab at him. A market harborough set loose will also prevent him raising his head beyond the point of control.

Bear in mind at his age he will be teething and may react to a contact on the bit by raising his head if his gums feel sore. A worcester noseband transfers pressure from the bit to the nose, as can a micklem bridle. Or put a drop noseband on with a second set of reins on the side rings, to achieve the same effect without having to buy any new equipment.
 
so stick a 3yr in a standing martingale, a gag (or pelham) and and drop nose band:rolleyes::rolleyes:


btw a *bubble* bit (gag) is a head raiser not lowering bit.

op try different mouth pieces rather than stronger bits, the loose rings give a bit of movememnt on reins swo maybe even something as simple as a fixed ring, and of course a few half halts before you ask for tyhe upward transition and then during. and also a bit of flexing to the left and right before you allow him to move upwards.
i often find with the babies thast keep throwing questions at them solves most rushing issues,
 
Instead of going up a bit try using your body to slow the trot.

Rise higher, sit longer so that you dictate through your body movement the quality of trot you want. This means that you don't have to sit on his mouth heavily
 
I find any jogging, getting too fast etc is solved by keeping them otherwise occupied with something useful. So I'd be asking for a transistion every 5/6 strides in places he's inclined to jog, but asking with position not reins. And like I say at 3, there's only a small range of things you can do to occupy him, so I wouldn't put him in overly exciting situations.
 
I'd be going back a step - pop your Fuzzy on the lunge (large circles) before you get on - taking exuberance out 1st & re-inforcing manners.
Sometimes this will take 5 mins, other times poss 20 or so.

Then I'd hop on & do a few simple moves on board before taking him out hacking.

Perhaps also back onto long reins too.

Mine all have a LONG running martingale on when starting out hacking (basically for neck strap but an emergency aid only otherwise) & I'd not think of putting a stronger bit in an under 4, but I'd look at what I was doing - what was making horse resist & ignore basic training for transitions.

Hope you find a solution :)
 
Have a hunter breast plate on and teach him to stop to a pull on it. I did this with mare and it worked on slowing her up out hunting without having to touch her mouth.

A standing martingale is a useful bit of tack, you do not have to fit it tight but it stops the head going up too high for control. I always use one on youngsters, in preference to a running which affects the mouth if they suddenly jerk the head up as they get a sock in the chops if your hands are not quick, and if your hands are quick it is ineffective anyway.
 
GS: It is a running, I personally don’t like using a martingale full stop, but I can’t abide using a standing on babies, just my personal feeling, but I won’t put one on him. I like the idea of training to stop/slow on the neck strap though, thank you.

Sugar and Spice:
Please see above, I can’t stand the things, and will not be using one. I agree that I will make him hard in the mouth if I have to jab him, that is why I am asking this question over what to use, I am not even necessarily looking for something ‘harsher’ perhaps a different action would suit him better. I have always been of the mind that the bit must suit the horse and rider, I don’t think this bit suits him as well it should. I am lucky in that I have a very clear indication when he is teething, he chews his lead rope, at the moment he is fine, his last ‘mouthy bout’ was about a fortnight ago when I wasn’t riding him. Interesting that you suggest looking at the noseband as an alternative though… I will have a look into that.

Tnavas:
I do for the most part use my body, its mainly the initial stages of trot when he can get a bit excitable and rush, after I have his attention I can pretty much set the pace with my seat, I don’t sit on his mouth heavily and try to leave it alone as much as possible, as I said, the only issue at the moment is when he rushes in the initial stages of trot.

Littlelegs
I like that suggestion and as I said I will be encourporating additional transitions into my hacks I will ask the woman who is riding him in the week for me, to do the same.

Bucanoo
Thank you I will bear that in mind, I do try to do that, but will try harder :D

FF
Funny you should say that but that is one of the tacks we started to use this weekend – the lunging. With regards to the ‘simple moves’ we always do a tiny bit of this before we leave the yard, I don’t want him to start anticipating that mummy jumps on at the mounting block and then we just walk out on out hack.

Looking at what I am doing, and harking back to buckanoo, I think I do really need to half halt and collect a bit more, get his attention before we go into trot… will have a try this weekend.

EP
Again, thank you, I will be teaching him to stop with a pull on on the martingale I have a breast plate, but I am not altogether comfortable with the fit, the cob is to my mind a tad too snug and the full fits nicely around the chest but the martingale and girth attachments are way too long  so at the moment it is just a bog standard running. I know that a standing is a useful bit of tack, but I have ridden persistant stargazers and never needed it… My mental block is probably because of all the incorrectly fitting ones I have seen and damage done as a result  I don’t think that his reaction warrants the use of a standing and I would far rather use nothing, and I truly believe that he will get to a point where it is not necessary to use a martingale at all.

Its just a baby phase, but I don’t want to have to be harsher than necessary while he is going through it and I do have this feeling that this bit isn’t quite right for him, someone mentioned a myler snaffle with fixed d rings, I may well look at trialing that see if less fuss calms him down, although Im sure this behaviour is just sheer exhuberance… does anyone know if you can trial from myler?
 
how.about a hanging cheek snaffle it'll give u slight poll pressure and still be snaffle plus would slightly add steering too. i know what people are saying about school etc and not asking too much but to answer youth question about a bit that isn't too much but a little more than you have that would be my choice old it has fixed sides so not loose ring so slightly more definate in what is being asked. read your other post about ebs by the way. think its really lovely how u write. hope that helps anyway
 
Personally I wouldn't change the bit either, however I would put a standing martingale on him.

I would also think about your hacks really carefully - going out with 2 others max, and ensuring you treat it like a military exercise in terms of what you do with him - until the whole thing is less exciting.

EDT: just seen you don't like standing martingales.
 
Last edited:
I know you don't like martingales but what about a loose market harbrough? It doesn't put pressure on the reins/bit like a running and will only come into play if he puts his head above a certain point? Plus he should learn that by not chucking his head up there is no pressure...
 
StormyGale said:
how.about a hanging cheek snaffle it'll give u slight poll pressure and still be snaffle plus would slightly add steering too. i know what people are saying about school etc and not asking too much but to answer youth question about a bit that isn't too much but a little more than you have that would be my choice old it has fixed sides so not loose ring so slightly more definate in what is being asked. read your other post about ebs by the way. think its really lovely how u write. hope that helps anyway
Click to expand...

ilvpippa said:
Agree with the hanging cheek if you want something more :)
Click to expand...
This was the sort of thing I was thinking about, so its nice to hear that if I do end up changing bits I am on the right track. I think the loose ring may just be confusing things a bit :(
amymay said:
Personally I wouldn't change the bit either, however I would put a standing martingale on him.

I would also think about your hacks really carefully - going out with 2 others max, and ensuring you treat it like a military exercise in terms of what you do with him - until the whole thing is less exciting.

EDT: just seen you don't like standing martingales.
Click to expand...

Amy may, I have never been out with more than 2 riders, and it is never a fast hack as one of the others is always a youngster and we always have a older wiser horse with us too. funnily enough, ben has always been fab with road signs and cars, the other youngster was wary of these! but she is far better schooled being five and really well behaved when we trot etc... I think sometimes it is almost too regimented, in that he is expecting that we trot, in a few of the places, I am thinking that I need to do the opposite with company, go out and do our route entirely in walk or still in walk and trot, but trot in different places, but in company.

leflynn said:
I know you don't like martingales but what about a loose market harbrough? It doesn't put pressure on the reins/bit like a running and will only come into play if he puts his head above a certain point? Plus he should learn that by not chucking his head up there is no pressure...
Click to expand...

To be honest I have never ridden in a market harbrough so am not informed enough to make a decision as to using it, Im not one for gadgets but Im also not one for not using them if they are apropriate, I will have a look into it, thank you :D
 
Sounds like you've covered everything then - and I would just carry on tbh (perhaps with just the older horse, so that things never get buzzy).
 
especially if he carries his head well a hanging cheek won't cause him to try and go lower higher etc too much just enough to say.hey Mr listen to me. i use mine on a 16.3 tb and he loves it he goes well in a snaffle but i just have less to do using a hanging cheek means i can sit deep and just ask him to.slow with minimal effort by him and there's no arguing both sides happy simples!! not saying their for everyone but i do like them as just a little halfway house if u like rather than jumping up to higher strength. keep us posted how it goes. shame u aren't closer i have so many of them should.open a shop lol
 
PLease don't expect the hanging cheek snaffle to produce poll pressure because it just doesn't.

We proved this most definately at a Pony Club rally this weekend. Young rider describing the action of her bit.

I said to her to watch the cheek pieces of her bridle when she applied pressure to her reins - she did and discovered that they go slack when the reins are used - slack cheek pieces = no poll pressure.

The hanging cheek may work well because it holds the bit still in the mouth and becomes more static therefore more comfortable.
 
Last edited:
I dont know if its been suggested, but exactly the same mouthpiece on full cheeks, with fulmer loops fitted?
NS do a full cheek snaffle- esp. in a youngster if he is a good lad it is usually more than enough
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top