Anti-dressage sentiments

I find this all very interesting... I think it's quite clear what's happened, and this is the true meaning of dressage (it's just French for 'training') has been forgotton, and it's been turned into a circus. Look at the silly front leg movements (still, unfortunately, marked highly), the still piaffer with no forward motion, etc etc.

The comment about (and I paraphrase a bit, but you get the idea) 'in eventing it's seen as a way to get to XC' is so true (just watch all the boring dressage at **** events), and so sad.

It is completely possibly to have horses schooled to a high level, naturally (classicially, if you like those terms) which can also jump a bloody good round XC. In fact, I hate to ride horses that aren't highly schooled on the flat.

I think the thing that makes the problem for the outside obvserver is that it is so plainly clear that some big name riders clearly focus on results over correct training. Sure, you can get a butch shoulder-in which scores highly from blindsided judges, but is it correct, is it supple, is it willing, is it progressive?

I will pick out a case in point. People often say that Anky is misunderstood for her use of hyperflexion. I found a article a little while ago (I shall try and dig it out again), which contained an interview with her from a few years ago before all the hyperflexion stuff kicked off. She basicially said "If your horse can do shoulder in in hyperflexion, which is really hard for it, then when in a competition you do it in a normal frame, they fly". That single sentence sums up everything that is wrong in 'modern' dressage for me.

The change in approach has been noticed by many. A point of note to me is a small paragraph in a book by the Baron Hans vox Blinxen Finecke (olympic gold eventing, his other horse won gold dressage ridden by a friend at the same time) from the early 90s where he implores the FEI to modify their rules to stop the influx of such practices. Unforunately, he wasn't flavour of the month and it still goes unheeded.
 
I thought of two more reasons:
- the marking in dressage is somewhat subjective; I am not a big fan of totillas, cos his hind end never looks like it is doing enough of the work, but clearly it is in fashion with the judges at the moment, and whilst I'm sure they know more than me, and lots of other people could give reasons why I'm wrong, it doesn't change the fact that I disagree with the outcome of the event, and there isnt an empirical way to prove that Im wrong.
- there is FAR too much focus on head carriage in dressage competitions. I still resent getting marked down in university riding club competitions for having the young horse I was given working forward and relaxed rather than pulling him into an outline - I know its not BD, and was one person's opinion, but I'm sure Im not the only person this has happened to, and it colours one's perceptions of the entire competetive sport.
 
I think these last 2 posts sum up for me why I am generally left cold by dressage.

I think a fantastically well schooled horse should be biddable and obedient. If you can't canter it round a ring when people applaud then it simply isn't as well schooled as my horse - who could be hacked down the M4 in an outline. (I know that is a somewhat ridiculous thing to say but you get my drift)

I also think that dressage is more about the movement and ability of the horse not about how well schooled it is. Which makes it less skilled to my mind & more of a straight showing competition.

Finally I think dressage has become ridiculous. I went to a dressage competition on Monday - the first for years. There were people propped into bizarre saddles, standing on their toes in the stirrups, with their knees pushed into big blocks - presumably to keep their legs straight. Because they were spatchcocked like this their legs were 3 or 5 inches away from the horses side & they were waving their lower legs around tapping the horse randomly with long spurs. They were leaning right back in a most uncomfortable position and nodding their heads. Frankly they just looked stupid. They could all have done with a straight forward GP saddle and a couple of lessons from a local riding school. BUT they were on big moving, horrendously overbent warmbloods & did well..... go figure how that fits into any manual about correct and effective riding.
 
GreyBadger said:
I find this all very interesting... I think it's quite clear what's happened, and this is the true meaning of dressage (it's just French for 'training') has been forgotton, and it's been turned into a circus. Look at the silly front leg movements (still, unfortunately, marked highly), the still piaffer with no forward motion, etc etc.
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This is exactly what my good old FBHS trainer says. I also think Kerilli and LEC raise a number of valid points, I think the Rollkur debate has very little to do with it in this country, it is a fairly new revelation and the anti-dressage wave started before that in my opinion.
I enjoy teaching my P2Per canter pirouettes and half pass, it teaches him balance, obedience and increases his strength but I don't feel the need to comment on what anyone else does with their horses and I definitely don't want someones opinions on mine!
Another reason could be the 'dilution' of standards and required training at the lower levels, how many people on livery yards see their liveries troll round endlessly and aimlessly in circles under the guise of 'dressage training' this MUST have a huge impact on perception to the masses? Working horses in circles constantly bores the t**s off me so please spare a thought for the poor old horse!
FWIW I think dressage could be revamped but only if you got rid of all of the 'wannabe trainers' with cult like disciples who have actually never ridden above Medium!
 
I don't 'get' much of dressage, from local level to the stuff at the Olympics. All I see, for much of it, is tension and restricted outlines and on the rare occasions I see a loose and free-moving animal, the judges apparently see something entirely different and incorrect.

I have seen blatant stuffiness and lameness marked up with little in the collectives to explain why the combinations were marked as they were. I think I can spot a horse which is relaxed and on the bit, moving willingly and correctly, and I know how to spot a sloppy/smooth transition and 'through' pace, but I am baffled by what gets highly marked and what doesn't. In this you can add the non-halt by A V-G. A blind person could have spotted that!

Those who can do it properly, like all good riders with correctly trained horses have no need for the trappings of the self-appointed demi-gods and the pointless and inhumane training gadgets, outlines and routines. They just ride. Not enough at the very top levels, sadly. I'd love to see some really, really excellent, natural riders on classically trained but unforced horses - or ponies - against the current world leaders and then have the marks dissected. To go with the mismatch of horses and riders, I'd like some lay-judges, unfazed by names and faces, to mark what they actually see, not what they imagine must be happening.

It'll never happen.
 
All I see, for much of it, is tension and restricted outlines and on the rare occasions I see a loose and free-moving animal, the judges apparently see something entirely different and incorrect.

I have seen blatant stuffiness and lameness marked up with little in the collectives to explain why the combinations were marked as they were. I think I can spot a horse which is relaxed and on the bit, moving willingly and correctly, and I know how to spot a sloppy/smooth transition and 'through' pace, but I am baffled by what gets highly marked and what doesn't. In this you can add the non-halt by A V-G. A blind person could have spotted that!
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Gosh, you've all really depressed me! :(

Honestly, is this what you see? Do you watch a lot of dressage? Becuase it certainly isn't what I see, either at local BD competitions or Premier Leagues or international shows. Certainly, there are instances of bad riding but they are NOT winning and you paint a picture which I just don't recognise.

As for the "Anky non halt", a photo of the score board from the Europeans last year:
6736_125181271692_659466692_2561126_4144503_n.jpg
(note that the horse is face on to the judge at C, so the extent of the non-immobility will not be so obvious as side on). Note that the next movement (the extended trot) got 8s and 9s. This is why you can do well despite mistakes and is one of the things that makes dressage so exciting.

A few recent videos of tests of totally different types of horses all which I think are quite lovely and demonstrate the quality of dressage that is out there right now:

Fabienne Lütkemeier and D'Agostino (world record young rider Kur score):
http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1118&sid=8b9444376fe782f5b5e2b8403fa67df3

Isabel Werth and El Santo:
http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1063

Carl Hester and Uthopia:

http://www.topdressage.tv/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=849
 
Dressage = Rollkur

Showjumping = overuse of draw reins

Eventing = rotational falls

Endurance = overworking of horses

Racing = unacceptable numbers of horse deaths

Pleasure riding = horses not worked enough

Polo = unacceptable strain on horses (weight of riders/sharp fast turns)

Showing = overweight horses


I think we could all be paranoid if we wanted :p
 
I'm not saying there isn't good riding and training on display, I'm just saying that there is a lot of bad stuff (the two statements are not mutually exclusive). Unfortunatley, it's the bad stuff that sticks in people's minds. (And yes, I watch a lot of dressage).

My favourite example of it 'done right' recently was the amazing WEG test that Adreas Helgstrand did on Blue Hors Matine; well worth a watch.

This comment:
"Those who can do it properly, like all good riders with correctly trained horses have no need for the trappings of the self-appointed demi-gods and the pointless and inhumane training gadgets, outlines and routines. They just ride."

should be heeded by all!
 
But Andreas H trains his horses deep and round (rollkur if you like) and Matine was almost certainly schooled this way. Actually Matine didn't do it for me, she was very very tense and almost brittle in her way of going, not fluid like Totilas. But this is a very personal response to one test. An example, I suppose, of how subjective responses to dressage can be!
 
Personally, I think the wheel just goes 'round. Horse people are so "tribal" and one of the things that's brings groups together is denigrating other groups that aren't like them (and therefor not as good/smart/instinctive/educated/whatever ;) ). Dressage has been in the news and dressage riders at a higher level are in the minority on this forum, which makes it tricky to get an accurate read on what the industry thinks as a whole. When there was a series of catastophes xc the internet was full of people decrying the cruelty of eventing . . .

And dressage doesn't help itself by the internal schisms, most notably the "Classical vs Modern" argument. I have to say, from what I see, this is often an academic argument as there are good - and really bad - riders on both sides of the fence. And I think there is a tendancy to use this or that "belief" to excuse a multitude of sins. I hear people use Heuschman's work to "defend" riding horses hollow but that's not, in the end, any better for them than the other extreme.

There was a whole thread on here a while ago mocking American hunters. I'm pretty sure very few of the people involved have shown in the discipline but lots of people where willing to jump on the bandwagon and put in their two cents worth. And many of the comments were justified, or at least pertinent to the videos people put up. But there certainly was very little understanding of the discipline as a whole, what's involved etc. I could say the same about Western horses, racing - pretty much anything people do with horses CAN come under fire.

One argument I might make about the "dressage ain't what it used to be" idea is that eventing certainly isn't, either. It's a LONG was from the originial military "point A to point B" sport and quite frankly, at that point in the sport's history, there wasn't ANY place for the levels that many people compete at now.

One note on the Anky's non-halts - she did get 1s for them at the time. The last few times out the horse HAS halted and she got the relative marks.

I don't like practices that hurt horses. I quite like horses. :) But I also recognise that pretty much everything we do with them has the potential to be harmful, including sit on them since that's very much not what they're built for. But people are people and ambition - not just competitiveness, sometimes just having something they're not really in a position to look after - is part of us. Balancing the two is very difficult and I think EVERYONE has to make their own choices.

What has been interesting to me is that great horseman hardly ever get really bent about what other people are up to in other disciplines. They appreciate skill - and horsemanship - where they find it and understand that you can't really extrapolate the whole from the parts. They do tend to get a lot more upset with what's happening within the discipline they love.

Btw, I thought it was interesting that FrodoBeutlin's comment on her thread re dressage showing in Germany and the fact that riders can expect to be out of it completely if their horse's poll drops and/or it goes behind the vertical, even if it's working otherwise well, passed virtually without comment.
 
siennamum said:
I think a fantastically well schooled horse should be biddable and obedient. If you can't canter it round a ring when people applaud then it simply isn't as well schooled as my horse - who could be hacked down the M4 in an outline. (I know that is a somewhat ridiculous thing to say but you get my drift)

I also think that dressage is more about the movement and ability of the horse not about how well schooled it is. Which makes it less skilled to my mind & more of a straight showing competition.
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I wasnt going to say anything, but feel like i have to.... My mare is extremely well schooled and obedient, to the point were i can put absolutly anyone on her and i know for a fact she wont put a foot wrong. She hacks on the buckle (i dont school out hacking as its her downtime) and isnt over fed, in fact she lives off grass and hay with a bit of stud balancer (as shes now in foal). However put her in a prize giving and she turns into a nutter, i have absolutly no idea why - shes showed at county level at all the big events so has cantered/galloped in large groups, she hunts etc. Shes competed at the Nationals (and won) and is not afraid of clapping, yet as soon as she sets foot in a prize giving shes like a different horse.

My second point is that shes not a big mover, shes just very correct and well trained - ive beaten professionals on her who have been riding big moving youngsters purely because shes accurate and very correct in her way of going.
 
Halfstep said:
But Andreas H trains his horses deep and round (rollkur if you like) and Matine was almost certainly schooled this way
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I hope this isn't true, but I would be happy to retract my statements if true - depite the end result (which I prefer to Totillas!), incorrect training is inexcusable.

The joys of subjectivity indeed!
 
Tempi said:
My second point is that shes not a big mover, shes just very correct and well trained - ive beaten professionals on her who have been riding big moving youngsters purely because shes accurate and very correct in her way of going.
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Good! Sounds like correct judging there...
 
My two pence worth......
1) Dressage is about the 'picture' and its very easy to criticise a picture whereas SJ is about leaving the fences up.
2) Pretty much everyone does dressage to some extent even if its just schooling on the flat so everyone has an opinion.
3) The subjectivity of the scoring and result lends itself to discussion/criticism.

As to why people feel its less friendly, my theory is that there is far less opportunity for competitors to interact at comps compared to SJ and Eventing.

In Dr you get your time, arrive with enough time to get ready and warm up then do your test. Generally by the time you have put horse away the score is up so you can go home. If doing a second test then often you are learning that test rather than socialising. The lack of noise at DR events also tends to stifle having a laugh with fellow competitors.
Compare to SJ where you are often there for hours hanging around with not much to do the opprotunity for social interaction is significantly increased.
Eventing is often an all day affair and you will often meet the same people on numerous occasions during that day (xc course walk, DR warm up, SJ course walk, SJ warmup, SJ hanging around for your turn, XC warmup etc).

Why doesn't eventing get the same level of criticism? I think it does.
Certainly the DR and SJ phases rarely get much comment but then they are far simpler than a GP DR test or a GP SJ track so horses aren't pushed to the limits. Where eventing does get the 'press' is the XC which is unique to eventing.

I'll shut up now. ;)
 
Any sport that has subjective judging is bound to have problems (e.g. look at the controvercies surounding ice skating), add to this a sport that is competed in the UK every single weekend at hundreds of venues and of course you are going to have problems!

On the specific problems:
- big moving warmbloods may get high marks for paces and extensions, but they are a bugger to sit to and collect; Spanish horses have a talent for collection and a problem with extensions, what can you do??! This simply reflects that ANY horse has weaknesses and strengths, good riders will expoit and strengths and improve the weaknesses, learner riders will fall foul of the weaknesses (e.g. me and huge moving Rusky doing Medium = 54% for not being able to sit to his trot! :)). Looking across the arena and saying "if only I was riding that horse there I would be winning" is not something that riders like Carl Hester need to say!

- interpretation of certain requirements. There is difference in this, but, in my opinion, different tests are also created by the fact that different horses have different ways of going. Another contributing factor is disagreement amongst everyone viewing on what is required, e.g. even on this thread (and without meaning to pick on anyone) someone suggested that a good piaffe should move forwards, I was always taught to look for a piaffe on the spot or practically on the spot.

- myths. Some myths do seem to propagate, e.g. Anky can do a bad halt and get away with it, or all horses ridden in Rollkur are tense.
 
Tempi said:
I wasnt going to say anything, but feel like i have to.... My mare is extremely well schooled and obedient, to the point were i can put absolutly anyone on her and i know for a fact she wont put a foot wrong. She hacks on the buckle (i dont school out hacking as its her downtime) and isnt over fed, in fact she lives off grass and hay with a bit of stud balancer (as shes now in foal). However put her in a prize giving and she turns into a nutter, i have absolutly no idea why - shes showed at county level at all the big events so has cantered/galloped in large groups, she hunts etc. Shes competed at the Nationals (and won) and is not afraid of clapping, yet as soon as she sets foot in a prize giving shes like a different horse.

My second point is that shes not a big mover, shes just very correct and well trained - ive beaten professionals on her who have been riding big moving youngsters purely because shes accurate and very correct in her way of going.
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Tempi, I have to agree with you, Sirena is exactly the same, I think that those who have never ridden in a dressage prize giving would be very surprised at their horses reaction to the sudden loud clapping/music etc. I have put complete novices on her (and if I had one, I would put my granny on her), when she feels someone losing balance, she just stops, she is 200% in traffic and will 'baby' green horses along - however, in a prize giving she is a demon!

I also agree with your other point,Sirena is a) small b) has fairly ordinary paces BUT she is correctly trained and is happy in her work, she has beaten numerous 17.2 warmbloods because of this. She is the first horse I have trained to half pass, passage and piaffe and in the summer she lives out 24/7, as do ALL my horses.

I have to say, as a judge, I see more bad riding and 'abuse' at unaffiliated prelim level than you will EVER see BD, lame horses that the rider is totally oblivious to, horses jabbed by spurs that the rider has no right to be wearing and the worse of all horses jabbed in the mouth and smacked in the sides by riders with no idea of the basics.
 
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TarrSteps said:
Btw, I thought it was interesting that FrodoBeutlin's comment on her thread re dressage showing in Germany and the fact that riders can expect to be out of it completely if their horse's poll drops and/or it goes behind the vertical, even if it's working otherwise well, passed virtually without comment.
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The same is true if you happen to be judged in this country by one JLC - I wrote for her eventing this year and every single horse which worked behind the vertical/whose poll dropped got no higher than a 6, and the 6 was only awarded if everything else was stellar. She said to me that it didn't matter how well it was working, behind the vertical was incorrect and should be penalised (or words to that effect). Some top riders fell foul of that.
 
Interesting. :) I was cheerfully on the "right" side of the debate once in front of an FEI judge who was doing one ring of a large show and caused some drama by marking down horses which had done well infront of the other judges and vice versa.

I just thought it was funny the discussion passed without comment since I've certainly seen people on here decrying the "German school" for "encouraging" short necked, over bent riding when clearly that's not the case. It does go to support the comments above that at least some of the ideas people have about different disciplines has more to do with internet gossip than personal experience. ;)
 
I was at a judge training day recently taken by JLC for list 1 and 2 judges (grooming for a guinea pig rider), and she was emphatic that no movement where the horse goes behind the vertical in a Medium test and above should get above a 6, and usually should be a 5 unless absolutely everything else is perfect. It should also be reflected in the submission collective, AND in the rider collective (for allowing it to happen)!!! At Novice/Elementary she would be more lenient as the horse's way of going is not expected to be completely confirmed, but in this case the neck should be long at all times.

it was a very interesting day. She had given 6s for movements where other judges gave 8s, because the horse tipped behind the vertical. She made a real point of stressing that penalising it sends a message, and that it should be commented on to make it very clear.
 
Halfstep said:
it was a very interesting day. She had given 6s for movements where other judges gave 8s, because the horse tipped behind the vertical. She made a real point of stressing that penalising it sends a message, and that it should be commented on to make it very clear.
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Sounds good - more of this kind of judging please!
 
Re: horses working behind the vertical in the U.K. getting poor marks - interesting. Good for JLC. I'm a bit surprised though, because I've seen horses worked behind the vertical throughout a test get very good marks here...
I remember years ago reading in H&H about Emile Faurie taking Legrini out for the first time, and deliberately doing the whole test (was at Medium or above iirc, not a low level anyway) behind the vertical. They commented on it specifically... and he got placed (3rd i think, this was yonks ago so apologies if my memory's faulty.)
So, this isn't seen as a 'sin' by all judges over here...
I did notice FB's comment about, and silently applauded, but I wasn't surprised - I've been told enough times that the judging in Germany is MUCH more consistent, far less personally 'subjective'.
 
TarrSteps said:
I just thought it was funny the discussion passed without comment since I've certainly seen people on here decrying the "German school" for "encouraging" short necked, over bent riding when clearly that's not the case. It does go to support the comments above that at least some of the ideas people have about different disciplines has more to do with internet gossip than personal experience. ;)
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Yes, I've read similar comments too. My experience in Germany has been totally the opposite, everything has to be done 'by the book' and according to the Richtlinien and the Scales of Training.

In fact I am surprised they don't require you to recite the Richtlinien after halting at X.

I think people might be confusing Germany with Holland, after all they are geographically close ;)

As for Matine, the discussion is (sadly) pretty academic now and I might be 100% wrong but I can say that whenever I have seen Andreas school her she most definitely wasn't ridden deep, not at all, in fact I was quite impressed by how 'classical' they looked (nose on the vertical even at the very start of the warm-up). But of course I might be wrong, I have no idea what goes on at home.
 
My little input i think..

I have swapped to dressage in properley in the last year and a half, i have always enjoyed the schooling side of jumping but got the dressage bug and am completly obsessed with all parts of dressage! : )
As i am at college were there is a focus on dressage i cans see why people dislike dressage.. i think there are lots of reasons but most add up to " Dressage riders are stuck up and buy posh horses, let other people train them up and sit and spur and try to look good"

There does seem to be a big thing about dr riders being stuck up but i know that when you are warming up or competitng you need to concentrate...maybe this comes off as being stuck up?

As for the Posh warmbloods everyone goes on about, they do do well but a lot of other breeds do to! Only last weeki was writing for a judge were a 13.2 pony beat a 17.1 flashy warmblood. As for the thought that people just buy the horse and then sit on it, that may happen but the riders need to be talelneted enough to stay on the horse! I do see some riders in all the right kit on very ncie looking horses, but they have to have had some trianing to get there..

Rolkur also doesnt help, but that has been seen to be used in showjumping aswell.
In spain at the sunshine tour all of the dr horses looked in good condition and happy.. most sj had spur marks

I think the germans train well, i don't personally agree with the fact that most of them do not turnout but as for the riding they do not all ride in rolkur with very tense horses... they are just good dressage riders : )

Just thought i would put that inn : )
 
i find myself disliking dressage quite a bit and for a number of reasons...at the top level i do actually really like watching it. there are obvious examples of tense horses but watching Totilas and the like is just wow...if i could ever ride anything like that one day i would be so happy (its never going to happen mind :rolleyes:).
i think the reason why i dislike it so much is what you see at the lower levels- to me DR is all about wannabe Anky's with too much money, totally overhorsing themselves with a 20k 4 year old that they can't ride one side of, but its ok because they look marvellous in their anky/gersemi outfit... i also find dressage very unfriendly. i get very initmidated at DR comps in a way i don't at BS or BE- having a nervous youngster hasn't helped that- there is nothing worse than that feeling of being mowed over by an 18hand warmblood in full medium canter... :eek:
i KNOW there are many exceptions to these steroretypes (including some lovely dressagers on here :) ) and there are "all the gear and no idea types" in every discipline, but i think there are more in dressage than other disciplines :)
 
Well what an interesting thread....I spotted it the other day but have only just had time to read it properly.

I love dressage, I love watching it, reading about it, trying to ride it on schoolmasters and on my own horse and love competing as you can monitor your progress. I obviously enjoy watching it at the higher levels but also like watching it at the lower levels which I compete as it gives me an idea of what to work on and what else is about! It shows me how things look when they are done well and unfortunately when its done badly too! although I can't criticise too much as people may think that about me when they see me ride. However my horse is healthy happy, certainly not underfed or overworked and I do try my hardest to ride well and not cause discomfort - as I think most people doing dressage do. You want to create a relaxed and harmonius picture and so going in and hauling your horses head around is unlikely to do this so I dont think *many* people try to ride badly - its just one of those things and we are all trying to improve!

Generally as some people have said I think dressage is very much in the spotlight at the moment and theres always some debate going on whether it be rollkur or classical v modern that people can get worked up about! Also as it is more subjective this can lead to issues when people see marks but really until you've actually watched the whole test and then seen how each movement is marked then you should reserve judgement (not that i do! ha) on the judge and the combination.

I must say i was pretty shocked about how Maria Eilberg was attacked after the video of warm up was posted on Horse Hero. It wasn't in the slightest bit rollkur but she got absolutely slated for it. I think Maria is a lovely rider and when I lived in the midlands used to see them compete quite regularly and she was a lovely quiet rider and their horses were very happy.

I am a bit worried about how the new rules on neck positioning will be interpreted at the lower levels. think people will start using it to attack other competitors that are warming up in different frames - even if this is deep and round and not rollkur at all. But then you get into the whole debate about whether anything behind the vertical is a sin in training but it definitely isnt rollkur!

I occasionally use static flexions with my horse as it helps him stretch the base of his neck and helps him to relax - only one or two each way. helps him to soften in his halts and rein back. I'm concerned that this will be perceived by others as some sort of rollkur or cruel! My chiro has actually suggested to do similar more extreme stretches to help him let go in his neck (admittedly not under saddle!)

I think that generally people would see it as unfriendly because like someone has said there isn't the same interaction with competitors as the timing is more reliable etc. I always try to be friendly and always wish the next person in the test after me good luck and in the warm up if I accidentally cut someone up will always apologise (often to be ignored but hey ho!) but then I have done my fair share or glaring and growling at people who simply dont know the rules of the warm up and are determined to drive me insane! Most shows i go to I've always found to be friendly.
 
"I don't think *many* people try to ride badly"

What a great observation!! I try my hardest and think I am making progress until I see the photos/vids and then it's all cringeworthy! Riding well is really, really tough for most people, but it's not as if I want to hunch up, stick my leg forwards and be totally ineffective! Does it cause a welfare issue for my horse? I don't think so. I think horses are on the whole fairly tolerant creatures and can get as much out of the relationship with humans as we do.
 
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