anti RSPCA?

Its irrelevent WHY they were fenced in, the point is the RSPCA fended his fields in instead of having the animals removed as he was in BREACH of the ban that the RSPCA went to great lengths to secure!
 
joeanne said:
Its irrelevent WHY they were fenced in, the point is the RSPCA fended his fields in instead of having the animals removed as he was in BREACH of the ban that the RSPCA went to great lengths to secure!
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This is what the RSPCA are up against. Members of public who (understandably) don't have knowledge of the law but automatically assume everything is black and white.

You can't just remove animals (particularly those on a field) because they are 'meant' to belong to so and so who is banned. You have to have visual proof ie catch that person having some interaction with the horses/animals, ie feeding them daily, giving them hay, leading them out etc etc etc in order to prove any sort of breach of ban (I am trying to simplify this, it's a little more in depth than that but I can't be bothered trying to explain the ins and outs of it). By someone just 'knowing' that they belong to a person who is banned, sadly is not enough in law. So unless that person is visually seen either by a credible witness (you would probably need a few in this sort of instance) who is willing to stand up and provide evidence in court, including video footage which clearly shows the identity of the person handling or providing some care or responsibility for those animals, or the officer dealing catches them doing so, then I'm afraid there is very little that anybody can do apart from wait until the day comes when they are caught.

This is further complicated by the changes in law over recent years. If the person in question was banned prior to the Animal Welfare Act 2006, then they were quite often allowed to 'own' animals, and even have some care for them, provided somebody was present with them when they did handle them etc (again, I put this in very simple terms so as to not get too into all the law ins and outs). So proving a breach of ban was highly infuriating and very difficult. The Animal Welfare Act has made that a lot easier, in that if somebody is banned from keeping animals, then they are not allowed to have any involvement in their care whatsoever, even if someone is there. However, as said before, they would have to be caught in the act, and a decent amount of evidence gathered in order to prove it first. And finally, to make things more complicated, under the Animal Welfare Act, a ban does not necessarily mean they are banned from keeping animals, it may mean a number of different things. There are specific bans which can be imposed, ie a ban on just transporting animals, or a ban on selling animals etc etc.

Not great, but better than it used to be.

So in actual fact, you may think that nothing was done, and you are more than likely correct, nothing may have been done, simply because the evidence was not there. :(
 
Tai.Ni.Po.Ni said:
just wondering why the sudden outrage of the RSPCA?
i understnad they arnt perfect but they have helped alot of animals.

having lived in the middle east where there are is no such thing as animal protection organsisations i find it a bit sad that they are being attacked. i lived in a place where horses would stand in the 50 degree sun with no food or water, covered in ticks and what would be done? nothing....when dogs were drivin out to the desert and dumped, left to fry in the heat and nobody cares. even animals such as tigers, lions and cheetahs and kept in peoples gardens suffering from malnutrition and going mental and again nothing is done.

also i kind of feel sorry for the people who volunteer their time with the best intentions of helping these animals. it is after all the people in the more authoritive positions making the wrong decisions, it must be a bit dishearting seeing all this rspca bashing going on.

anyway please dont attack me :D just wanted to say it could be ALOT worse without the RSPCA than with.
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I think a lot of it comes from the organisation's selectiveness in deciding which cases to get involved in and their apparent preference for the high profile issues. There has been a lot of stick after a recent case where even the judge expressed surprise at the RSPCA's extravagant and cavalier use of funds in a straight forward open and shut case involving the Heythrop Hunt. Law broken, issue taken to court, villains pleaded guilty and paid the fine. "Seemples" - but the RSPCA had used over £300,000 quite unnecessarily on the case and tried to claim it back from the HH. Judge didn't allow it as costs can't exceed the amount of the fine.He said that he found the £300k the RSCPCA had spent on the case to be "staggering". Even some of my most rabidly anti-hunt friends have been shocked at the RSPCA's performance in this case.

I've been involved in several appeals to the RSPCA to intervene in cruelty cases when they have refused to do anything and I and others have been told in no uncertain terms that "We (ie the RSPCA) haven't the time or money to bother with every report from the general public". and yes the speaker did say "bother"!
 
Moomin1 said:
I think the sad fact of the matter is OP that it is human nature to want to jump on bandwagons and form opinions based on hear say and with very little direct fact or knowledge of matters.

Of course there will be issues with any organisation, but similarly to the NHS, when press and media become involved to any great extent, people are bound to automatically believe it is true and then you get the likes of public forums, where nobody really knows who anybody else is, yet are willing to take their say so on matters, without actually establishing the facts first. A wave of hysteria then follows, which again is human nature.

The sad fact also is that a large amount of stuff which I see posted on here is vastly misinformed about the RSPCA - ie a lot of people believe that the government have afforded them powers, and you can tell these people over and over that they actually haven't, and they don't have powers, but they won't believe you, because they naturally believe the majority and the hype. People also don't have much of an idea of how the law works and how things need to be done in order to stay within the law, so they truly believe that the RSPCA have a free rein to be able to do as they wish in certain circumstances, but that simply isn't true.

Then of course, you get those on forums and in the press who are scorned and very bitter about the RSPCA due to 'personal experiences' they may have had of a close encounter involving their own animals. ;)
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Unfortunately the RSPCA even think they have free rein to do as they wish!
 
Front line staff and activities such as rehoming animals and the prosecution of genuine cruelty cases I fully support no matter who the organisation is but the RSPCA have gone to far with their political activities and when we have contacted them for aid they have always passed the buck even when it has been an animal in distress.

For an example:

A neighbour moves leaving their elderly cat behind (transient student community) the cat was inherited from another neighbour, the cat is starving has serious ill health and is a danger to other residents as he is following them home and boxing them in (basement flats) then attacking them leaving some residents with injuries. Previously friendly cat has turned feral. He is being given small amounts of food by concerned residents but his ill health is a serious issue and without a home in winter he is not going to survive. His attacks are leaving him at risk.

RSPCA answer: find the owners and ask them to bring the cat.

Explain the owners were foreign students and they have not left a forwarding address.

RSPCA answer: sorry we are not able to help at this time please find the owner and ask them to contact us.

This is one of many contacts I have had with the RSPCA and to date not one single contact has resulted in the behaviour they exhibit when the camera's are around, there is no rush to aid an ill and dying animal in distress, but they can show TV programs where a valuable resource of an RSPCA inspector is flushing duckies out of a hedge to a nearby pond.

Needless to say the above cat was found dead at the first snow within a few days of the last phone call.
 
The state has allowed a charity to take on a role taken by the state in other situations I believe this is wrong the tax payer should meet the cost of animal prosecutions as they do for other illegal activities .
The RSPCA could then do welfare work , campaigning what ever they wanted and raise money for it .
The present situation worrys me it's hard to see how it's fair and objective.
 
Poor cat. Was no one prepared to offer the cat a home ?

I don't think I could ever not take a stray cat in either permanently or at least until I found a new home for it.
 
Agreed, my house is a home for waifs and strays and if I saw an abandoned cat that was starving it would be coming straight home. If I couldn't take it in personally I would drop said cat in to the local vets or rescue centre myself. Over the years I have had a collection of grateful animals including horses who have arrived like this. How anyone can leave an animal in distress is beyond me! My own dealings with the RSPCA inspectors have been positive. However I did sadly help out in a case where they didn't get there quick enough to a group of starving horses. We did manage to remove the few that were surviving but the whole problem of proving owner ship was hard. RSPCA inspectors and indeed WHW have often got to make very tough calls. We had another horse dumped in one of our fields a who had been owned by the gypsies. It had a prolapsed anus and it was very infected. Only real choice was to PTS as horse was on her way out, but RSPCA couldn't do that as owner couldn't be found and police were required to get there. In the end as horse was in a bad way I called our own vet and told vet it was one of ours and do it now. Doing things by the book isn't always what's right for the animal. I do think the political prosecutions are stupid and a waste of money. In an ideal world the animal inspectors need to be government run and linked to the police. In America inspectors have more power and are state run. That way welfare cases can be dealt with alot more effectively.
 
natalia said:
Agreed, my house is a home for waifs and strays and if I saw an abandoned cat that was starving it would be coming straight home. If I couldn't take it in personally I would drop said cat in to the local vets or rescue centre myself. Over the years I have had a collection of grateful animals including horses who have arrived like this. How anyone can leave an animal in distress is beyond me! My own dealings with the RSPCA inspectors have been positive. However I did sadly help out in a case where they didn't get there quick enough to a group of starving horses. We did manage to remove the few that were surviving but the whole problem of proving owner ship was hard. RSPCA inspectors and indeed WHW have often got to make very tough calls. We had another horse dumped in one of our fields a who had been owned by the gypsies. It had a prolapsed anus and it was very infected. Only real choice was to PTS as horse was on her way out, but RSPCA couldn't do that as owner couldn't be found and police were required to get there. In the end as horse was in a bad way I called our own vet and told vet it was one of ours and do it now. Doing things by the book isn't always what's right for the animal. I do think the political prosecutions are stupid and a waste of money. In an ideal world the animal inspectors need to be government run and linked to the police. In America inspectors have more power and are state run. That way welfare cases can be dealt with alot more effectively.
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Brilliant attitude. You're a Can Do kind of person who takes action instead of wringing your hands and blaming someone else.
If more people had your approach, the animal welfare charities wouldn't be chasing their tails.

I'm not advocating people become mini rescues, but you do what you can when possible before reaching for the phone.
 
My problem isnt with the RSPCA for what they do it is how they do it.

I have 2 dogs and 2 cats at home, I am a carer so I am in and out of the house all day. I had a letter left threatening to take my animals away as I had gone on holiday and left them.:confused:

Firstly I was at work I am out for up to two hours at a time and then I have 30 mins to get to my next person, in that 30 mins I go home let my dogs out and check all the animals have food and the house is not too hot/cold

Secondly they had left no calling card saying they had visited before I got said letter.:rolleyes:

I contacted them and made an appointment to come round, one of my dogs is a lab x collie female and tends to lose weight before coming into season, which she was due and with her being very active she is always on the thin side even though she is fed a working dogs food. My other animals are in good condition but when inspector came out he told my I was abusing my animals and that he expected my to sign them over, I refused.

I had senior inspector out who also said he thought i should sign over my lab mix or would face prosacution:mad: again i refused but did produce vet statement about my dogs weight (had snooty neighbours accuse me of neglect so got it to shut them up) after that I was left in peace.

It seemed to me that they let it go because I had proof that would stand up in court if they confiscated my dog, I could be wrong about this though.

My animals are healthy and happy surely if i abused them that wouldnt be the case, but the inspectors didnt seem to care about that
 
Tai.Ni.Po.Ni said:
just wondering why the sudden outrage of the RSPCA?
i understnad they arnt perfect but they have helped alot of animals.

having lived in the middle east where there are is no such thing as animal protection organsisations i find it a bit sad that they are being attacked. i lived in a place where horses would stand in the 50 degree sun with no food or water, covered in ticks and what would be done? nothing....when dogs were drivin out to the desert and dumped, left to fry in the heat and nobody cares. even animals such as tigers, lions and cheetahs and kept in peoples gardens suffering from malnutrition and going mental and again nothing is done.

also i kind of feel sorry for the people who volunteer their time with the best intentions of helping these animals. it is after all the people in the more authoritive positions making the wrong decisions, it must be a bit dishearting seeing all this rspca bashing going on.

anyway please dont attack me :D just wanted to say it could be ALOT worse without the RSPCA than with.
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A once great charity reduced to a polictical plaything and a gravy train by its leadership!! hopefully they will be held to account and this once great force for good will rise again...
 
Tai.Ni.Po.Ni said:
just wondering why the sudden outrage of the RSPCA?
i understnad they arnt perfect but they have helped alot of animals.

having lived in the middle east where there are is no such thing as animal protection organsisations i find it a bit sad that they are being attacked. i lived in a place where horses would stand in the 50 degree sun with no food or water, covered in ticks and what would be done? nothing....when dogs were drivin out to the desert and dumped, left to fry in the heat and nobody cares. even animals such as tigers, lions and cheetahs and kept in peoples gardens suffering from malnutrition and going mental and again nothing is done.

also i kind of feel sorry for the people who volunteer their time with the best intentions of helping these animals. it is after all the people in the more authoritive positions making the wrong decisions, it must be a bit dishearting seeing all this rspca bashing going on.

anyway please dont attack me :D just wanted to say it could be ALOT worse without the RSPCA than with.
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As always its the management of the organization that is pretty useless and very expensive. The people on the ground have the hard job, copeing with the idiots that they get called out to and the idiots who manage them.
 
horserider said:
Brilliant attitude. You're a Can Do kind of person who takes action instead of wringing your hands and blaming someone else.
If more people had your approach, the animal welfare charities wouldn't be chasing their tails.

I'm not advocating people become mini rescues, but you do what you can when possible before reaching for the phone.
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The trouble is that you get to the point where you can't take on anymore and they still refuse to help, I took in a stray cat when my daughter was very ill and spending lots of time in hospital, I couldn't keep it for obvious reasons and was at the end of my tether emotionally and physically and they didn't want to know. I currently have five cats, four of which were strays and never once thought of ringing them as I knew it would be fruitless, the rspca don't take in unwanted animals, regardless of the state they are in apparently.

I dread any more strays turning up, as I probably couldn't afford to feed any more mouths, it's all very well everyone doing their bit, but some support might just encourage more people to help in the first place, I'm fully aware that any animal I take into my care I'll probably be stuck with, as much as I love them and can't see them stuck, you can't take them all in, so what happens then?
 
Who says a stay cat is a stay cat? Just because a cat turns up does not necessarily mean it doesn't have an owner. No charity would just take in healthy stray cats, they are all full to the brim with ones that were taken in injured, pregnant, old, kittens, ill etc. There just isn't the space (nor the homes to rehome them to) to start taking in healthy animals.
 
competitiondiva said:
Who says a stay cat is a stay cat? Just because a cat turns up does not necessarily mean it doesn't have an owner. No charity would just take in healthy stray cats, they are all full to the brim with ones that were taken in injured, pregnant, old, kittens, ill etc. There just isn't the space (nor the homes to rehome them to) to start taking in healthy animals.
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Believe me these cats weren't healthy; two were at deaths door, one was pregnant and feral, one had chronic sinus issues and one was seen thrown from a car, and no owners were traced for any of them. None of them were neutered/spayed/chipped.

We live in a village that is notorious for having animals dumped from the nearest town, including a rabbit stuffed into a hamster cage which I also took in. Luckily my neighbour is a vet and helps out where she can. I live in a part of the country where animal cruelty is at its highest, the cats protection league and similar smaller charities are far more effective at dealing with the suffering directly and organising neutering programmes, perhaps if the rspca focused more on helping animals directly there would be more help available.
 
Bexy_86 said:
My problem isnt with the RSPCA for what they do it is how they do it.

I have 2 dogs and 2 cats at home, I am a carer so I am in and out of the house all day. I had a letter left threatening to take my animals away as I had gone on holiday and left them.:confused:

Firstly I was at work I am out for up to two hours at a time and then I have 30 mins to get to my next person, in that 30 mins I go home let my dogs out and check all the animals have food and the house is not too hot/cold

Secondly they had left no calling card saying they had visited before I got said letter.:rolleyes:

I contacted them and made an appointment to come round, one of my dogs is a lab x collie female and tends to lose weight before coming into season, which she was due and with her being very active she is always on the thin side even though she is fed a working dogs food. My other animals are in good condition but when inspector came out he told my I was abusing my animals and that he expected my to sign them over, I refused.

I had senior inspector out who also said he thought i should sign over my lab mix or would face prosacution:mad: again i refused but did produce vet statement about my dogs weight (had snooty neighbours accuse me of neglect so got it to shut them up) after that I was left in peace.

It seemed to me that they let it go because I had proof that would stand up in court if they confiscated my dog, I could be wrong about this though.

My animals are healthy and happy surely if i abused them that wouldnt be the case, but the inspectors didnt seem to care about that
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This is the sort of story that really worrys me , I have heard this story in slightly different forms to many times and OP did the thing I advise people to do go to your vet quickly a good owner with a good relationship with their vet has support in these situations but the big question is when the RSPCA has taken on a job of the state who is protecting the public and bringing the RSPCA to account when they get it wrong.
 
horserider said:
Poor cat. Was no one prepared to offer the cat a home ?

I don't think I could ever not take a stray cat in either permanently or at least until I found a new home for it.
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Sadly not, most only stayed during term time or were foreign and not staying long term and others just didn't want that particular cat, he really was a vicious little s*d if he cornered you and bringing him in your house resulted in injuries, typical of a adult feral. I left food for him to be given but long term he needed help and veterinary care. His previous owners used to leave a window open for him and feed him but beyond that their care was limited.
 
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