Any advice before I give up completely???!!!

[ImmyS]

I’m at a complete loss with Arlo at the minute. As most of you know he was nervous when I bought him, but he improved so much and up until mid August he was super easy to catch, do and ride, if you didn’t know him you would never know he was a nervous type!

Anyway a few weeks ago I went to catch him in the field wearing a hi vis jacket (god forbid... may I add he has worn hi vis himself and I always ride in it, but it was a new particularly bright one) and I got his head collar over his nose but as soon as reached round the other side to flick it over he freaked and ran and then wouldn’t let me anywhere near him. I had no choice but to run him round until he was knackered and then I managed to catch him but he acted absolutely terrified of me.

Since then he has been really awkward and I really can’t figure it out as there seems be zero pattern. As some days he’ll come over and be friendly but if I go to touch him he’ll run away, other times he won’t come over at all, some days I can catch him zero problems at all. Sometimes if you have food you can do absolutely anything to him and he won’t give a care in the world, other days food doesn’t mean anything and he’ll act scared again. He acts terrified if I go to take his head collar off in the field but if I swap head collars/put bridle on on the yard he’s absolutely fine with it. Nothing has changed in his routine, he isn’t fed hard feed, just hay grass and salt. It doesn’t seem to be weather dependent although he can be bad in worse weather, but can also be bad on a perfectly still sunny day. I just don’t get it, it’s so demoralising when I have done nothing different in his routine/the way I handle him and he snorts at me and flinches like I’m going to kill him.

He’s had his eyes checked, poll checked as he’s intermittently sensitive around that area and can’t find anything. It’s really starting to get me down as he had come far and he seems to have regressed to even worse than when I first bought him and I just can’t fathom why? My other half who is horsey but not been around horses for a while thinks he’s ‘putting it on’ as one minute he acts terrified then the next you can touch him all over and he doesn’t seem bothered. I don’t really believe horses putting things on, but he does seem to be very over sensitive at the minute. It’s exhausting and frustrating.

Don’t know if I’m asking for advice really or just need a good old moan and to persevere. I’ve tried tough love, doesn’t work, I’ve tried lots and lots of praise doesn’t work, I’ve tried food rewards which he’ll learn something with and be absolutely fine with it, such as being caught then one day he’ll just suddenly regress and act terrified again for no reason. Head and brick wall comes to mind.

Just to add he’s had a field safe head collar on for a while which I could catch with but had started to rub so took it off this evening for a break, which was terrifying apparently. God knows whether I’ll be able to catch him again! All his problems seem to be a lot worse in the field, he’s easier when on the yard.

Ahhh I hate horses sometimes

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think part of the issue is chasing him when clearly already terrified no wonder he won't come near you, when my horse was younger he would often run away just as you would put the headcollar over his head, I found the best way was to never look at him and sometimes even walk past as if your not interested in catching him, then I found it I turned and walked towards the gate he would follow I then would very slowly turn and put his headcollar on, I find you should never have eye contact when trying to catch a horse that can be nervous to catch, you might not like the idea of treats but they do help distract the more nervous horse, I would also very occasionally just walk in the field give him a treat and walk away and not try and catch him.

And horses don't put things on or pretend to be fearful they just don't work like that and maybe that's part of the issue you need to understand him a bit better and then he might learn to trust you.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I would have just taken the hi viz jacket off the first time he was scared of it and caught him in without it on rather than chase him round for ages. No he just sees no point in coming over as he did something good, got a wee but of a fright and then got scared by a human and head collar even further by being made to run. I don't blame him for not wanting to come in.

 

[DabDab]

Might be worth checking his eyesight?

 

[ImmyS]

I would have just taken the hi viz jacket off the first time he was scared of it and caught him in without it on rather than chase him round for ages. No he just sees no point in coming over as he did something good, got a wee but of a fright and then got scared by a human and head collar even further by being made to run. I don't blame him for not wanting to come in.

I did take jacket it off straight away. Tried food, tried ignoring him, tried everything. I didn’t chase him round like a lunatic, just kept moving if he stopped to it. This issue was happening prior to the jacket.

ETA that he has had moment like this before, where he will pull away when being caught but will usually come back given a minute and let me try again. His behaviour is very inconsistent. Since the jacket day I have been able to catch him and work with him with no issues, other days not.

 

[ImmyS]

Might be worth checking his eyesight?

Has been checked

 

[ImmyS]

I think part of the issue is chasing him when clearly already terrified no wonder he won't come near you, when my horse was younger he would often run away just as you would put the headcollar over his head, I found the best way was to never look at him and sometimes even walk past as if your not interested in catching him, then I found it I turned and walked towards the gate he would follow I then would very slowly turn and put his headcollar on, I find you should never have eye contact when trying to catch a horse that can be nervous to catch, you might not like the idea of treats but they do help distract the more nervous horse, I would also very occasionally just walk in the field give him a treat and walk away and not try and catch him.

And horses don't put things on or pretend to be fearful they just don't work like that and maybe that's part of the issue you need to understand him a bit better and then he might learn to trust you.

He wasn’t terrified, he wondered off and started eating, but when I got close he would walk off. He acted terrified once I had caught him, I brought him in let him settled, gave him some treats, and put him back out. I have tried everything you have suggested and one day he is 100% fine to catch, the next he will wonder off and doesn’t want to know.

 

[DabDab]

I know it sounds daft, but have you ever tried stabling him in a half in half out routine?

One of my youngsters can't abide being out all the time because it's like she doesn't ever properly unwind and she starts to get a bit angsty. When in she sleeps/snoozes for a good 4 hours or so, and for whatever reason she really needs that. She's super sensible and easy to do as long as she has her sleep and her routine.

You've probably tried all sorts, but just a thought in case.

 

[Shay]

Can you get a decent NH expert to explain this to you? Its really hard to type out. Its partly dominance / play. Get close. Make a demand. Run off. Its a gelding thing. But then you didn't respond the way he thought you would and it scared him. You got scared. He could smell that. You changed your behavior - went and got food. And he got all confused. Then he thought there was something to be scared of and you couldn't reassure him because you were scared and so it went on.

When they walk off to graze -just quietly keep the pressure on. On hassle - they want to walk way that's just fine. You have all day (even if you actually don't.) They can't settle - walk into their space without expecting anything. Just really slowly and gently keep moving them on. The moment they show an inclination to come in, drop the energy, lower your eyes. They let you approach and head collar - great. If not - back to stalking. No treats. No coercion . Just body language they understand. He can choose to approach you early on. He can choose not to. But choosing not to means a while moving about the field. No firm pressure, no chasing. You have all the time in the world -so does he. But he can't settle to graze - just keep moving him very gently on until he chooses different.

 

[bonny]

Anyone who thinks the answer to a scared horse is to run him round till he is knackered (your words) is never going to have a decent relationship with her horse. A little understanding goes a long way!

 

[ImmyS]

Anyone who thinks the answer to a scared horse is to run him round till he is knackered (your words) is never going to have a decent relationship with her horse. A little understanding goes a long way!

I have a lots of understanding.. trust me. If I had no understanding I don’t think I would be able to get a horse that you couldn’t even stand by his side without him shaking like a leaf and terrified (despite being broken and having tonnes of video evidence of him being ridden with no issues and riding him myself with no issues at viewing) to boxing him up for day out to a strange place and going cross country with him being completely calm and relaxed with all aspects. This was a last last resort as he needed to come in.

 

[Red-1]

If he is out all of the time then I would consider bringing him in at night, just so there is a reason for being caught, he will be in a routine, you will have him stabled to handle him and get back on the same page.


It may simply be that at the moment you have nothing to offer him. Once he had decided to run off he knows he has not been mannerly, you are probably also vexed so he is nervous when caught.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

He sounds a little like my last horse who was inconsistent in his behaviour and it did drive me a bit mad tbh. Catching him could be fine or he'd act like he'd never seen me before ( even after three years), likewise grooming, groundwork etc. He was particularly worried about people on his off side behind or at his girth area-he was backed and ridden away before I got him. It's not much help to you op but I never did figure him out, sent him to a pro who did wonders with him on the ground .
Anyway, what I did do which helped with the catching was a bit of target clicker work and some Ben hart shaping plan work on various issues such as handling his feet which he was also bad with. He seemed to be a very sensitive horse who once he had a fright found it hard to forgive if you will. I have a number of theories now as to why but he's not a ridden horse so a different kettle of fish to yours.he was always better when in during the night than when out 24/7, always better with more horse around.

 

[HashRouge]

Hi Immy, my sister's horse is a little bit like this. He is generally hard to catch, so a bit different to yours in that respect, but he does the same thing in that he acts terrified! I always say he is a bit feral...
When he is in the field he varies from really feral, where he won't come anywhere near you (this is quite uncommon fortunately!), to wary (he will usually sniff/ lick your hands but won't let you stroke him - this is his usual behaviour), to friendly (where you can stroke or even catch him easily - this is not common!). When he is in wary mode he will snort at you and act nervous if you go to stroke him. On Sunday I wanted to take his fly mask off and he was happy to take an apple and lick my hands (he loves doing this) but if I tried to move my hands round the side of his head to the fly mask he would snort and back away. If I had moved after him, he would just have run away.

He's odd because he acts very nervous, but has never had a bad experience as far as we know, and we have owned him for ten years and he has always been like this and never got any better. He's retired through injury too, so all is people interactions are nice things like getting brushed, eating apples and having cuddles. Once you catch him, he is very friendly and cuddly! He will have an initial snort and then it's like a switch goes and he is suddenly the most friendly horse around. My sister and I sometimes say that maybe he is not wired quite right, because I have never known a horse like him!

We have tried all sorts of things over the years, but nothing has "fixed" his behaviour. Fortunately we have very good managing techniques! Essentially, if you get him into a small space, he will be caught easily. Our summer field is long and narrow, so I tend to bring his my mare (his companion) out of the field and then, while he is at the gate watching for her (they adore each other) I move some electric fencing across behind him, so that he is in a smaller area. I then make it smaller around him, but I do this very slowly so as not to spook him. Once you get the coral the right size, he will be caught easily. It sounds like a faff, but it really only takes five mins more than it would to catching him normally. When they are in their winter field, which isn't such a good shape, I have a coral up all the time in one corner of the field and when I need to catch him I just put their feeds in there, then open up a section of the fence and he will follow his field mate in there. Could you try something like this? You will hopefully find that he improves quickly once you are able to catch him easily. I think our gelding is unusual in that he has never improved, but at least we are able to manage him and I know I will always be able to get him if needed.

 

[ImmyS]

If he is out all of the time then I would consider bringing him in at night, just so there is a reason for being caught, he will be in a routine, you will have him stabled to handle him and get back on the same page.


It may simply be that at the moment you have nothing to offer him. Once he had decided to run off he knows he has not been mannerly, you are probably also vexed so he is nervous when caught.

Thank you for your reply, unfortunately I can’t bring him in as he doesn’t have a stable. However thinking back when he was in more work I would give him a small hard feed which I would have bring him in for as his field mate was fed at the same time so I guess that was routine for him. I’ve slowly cut out feed since he’s stopped work.

 

[ImmyS]

He sounds a little like my last horse who was inconsistent in his behaviour and it did drive me a bit mad tbh. Catching him could be fine or he'd act like he'd never seen me before ( even after three years), likewise grooming, groundwork etc. He was particularly worried about people on his off side behind or at his girth area-he was backed and ridden away before I got him. It's not much help to you op but I never did figure him out, sent him to a pro who did wonders with him on the ground .
Anyway, what I did do which helped with the catching was a bit of target clicker work and some Ben hart shaping plan work on various issues such as handling his feet which he was also bad with. He seemed to be a very sensitive horse who once he had a fright found it hard to forgive if you will. I have a number of theories now as to why but he's not a ridden horse so a different kettle of fish to yours.he was always better when in during the night than when out 24/7, always better with more horse around.

Thank you for your reply. He does sound very similar. I use clicker training a lot with him and it has helped with a lot of other issues. It’s just frustrating as I can spend a good few hours with him, grooming, walking him out in hand and he seems calm and engaged then I’ll go to turn him out and he’ll turn and look at me and snort all big eyes like he’s never seen me before... horse logic!

 

[ImmyS]

Hi Immy, my sister's horse is a little bit like this. He is generally hard to catch, so a bit different to yours in that respect, but he does the same thing in that he acts terrified! I always say he is a bit feral...
When he is in the field he varies from really feral, where he won't come anywhere near you (this is quite uncommon fortunately!), to wary (he will usually sniff/ lick your hands but won't let you stroke him - this is his usual behaviour), to friendly (where you can stroke or even catch him easily - this is not common!). When he is in wary mode he will snort at you and act nervous if you go to stroke him. On Sunday I wanted to take his fly mask off and he was happy to take an apple and lick my hands (he loves doing this) but if I tried to move my hands round the side of his head to the fly mask he would snort and back away. If I had moved after him, he would just have run away.

He's odd because he acts very nervous, but has never had a bad experience as far as we know, and we have owned him for ten years and he has always been like this and never got any better. He's retired through injury too, so all is people interactions are nice things like getting brushed, eating apples and having cuddles. Once you catch him, he is very friendly and cuddly! He will have an initial snort and then it's like a switch goes and he is suddenly the most friendly horse around. My sister and I sometimes say that maybe he is not wired quite right, because I have never known a horse like him!

We have tried all sorts of things over the years, but nothing has "fixed" his behaviour. Fortunately we have very good managing techniques! Essentially, if you get him into a small space, he will be caught easily. Our summer field is long and narrow, so I tend to bring his my mare (his companion) out of the field and then, while he is at the gate watching for her (they adore each other) I move some electric fencing across behind him, so that he is in a smaller area. I then make it smaller around him, but I do this very slowly so as not to spook him. Once you get the coral the right size, he will be caught easily. It sounds like a faff, but it really only takes five mins more than it would to catching him normally. When they are in their winter field, which isn't such a good shape, I have a coral up all the time in one corner of the field and when I need to catch him I just put their feeds in there, then open up a section of the fence and he will follow his field mate in there. Could you try something like this? You will hopefully find that he improves quickly once you are able to catch him easily. I think our gelding is unusual in that he has never improved, but at least we are able to manage him and I know I will always be able to get him if needed.

Thanks for your reply. I’m out with the monkey right now and caught him no issues. The funny thing is everyday he whinnies and comes over to the gate and today he let me catch him. But if he cane over to the gate, but I ignored him and got in with jobs, then went to catch him that’s when he gets funny. It very much has to be on his terms. Frustrating because if he was as terrified as he acts, he wouldn’t come over to be caught at all?

 

[DD]

Anyone who thinks the answer to a scared horse is to run him round till he is knackered (your words) is never going to have a decent relationship with her horse. A little understanding goes a long way!

^^^^^
this 100% ,chasing him totally the wrong thing to do.

 

[ImmyS]

^^^^^
this 100% ,chasing him totally the wrong thing to do.

Can you say what you would have done? Not very constructive otherwise.

 

[DabDab]

He does sound like a funny one

It does sound like he really needs little routines to cling onto though. Some horses just aren't really 'go with the flow' types. They need to feel like they know what they're doing, and if they feel like they're getting the answer wrong they really take it to heart and get quite insecure. If you can't stable him could you maybe try just following the same routine with him every time you come down for a bit and just see if he settles and becomes a bit more consistent?

 

[Antw23uk]

I know others will disagree but I'd be calling it a day with this one. He either needs to go on loan (so you keep control of his future) to someone who you absolutely trust and can try a new approach/ routine with him .. with the best will in the world you arent a good match for this horse (you might find no one is so dont take it personally) The other option is call it a day and secure his future at home. I had a friend who had a horse the same as what you have described in all your posts about him and she tried everything over years and had the patience of a saint and still didnt get through to him so in the end she had him pts! I normally have an answer for everything (might not be right but hey ho!) and honestly other than a life on the moors away from people this horse just couldnt cope with any life around people, it was like he just couldnt cope with any pressure or trust his own thoughts or instincts .... i might add he had never had a bad experience in this life and she'd had him his whole life and he was 9 when she called it a day!

Very sad OP, you are rightly gutted so dont rush into anything but maybe a change of scenery Ie. someone else, is what this horse needs? Life is too short to be miserable in a hobby that is supposed to make us happy and pts is not a welfare issue!

 

[pippixox]

Although they are used to a variety of timings due to work and small children, and mostly live out, my mare can be ‘funny’ when living out. She will not let me rug her- literally takes off, snorts, even with hard feed, unless i put a head collar on her. But she happily walks to the gate for me to put the head collar on! With lead rope just looked through twine. Without it she acts as if she is scared of rugs! But I’ve had her 7 years and she is regularly rugged as she now has mild sweet itch and she shivers if she gets wet.

Are they consistent in behaviour when worked?

I don’t really have much advice I’m afraid. My friends warmblood was very inconsistent. Would be very calm donkey and then the next day scared of something he was walked passed everyday! But if anything a routine could make him even worse as he would freak out with a tiny change if he had the same routine for too long

 

[ImmyS]

I know others will disagree but I'd be calling it a day with this one. He either needs to go on loan (so you keep control of his future) to someone who you absolutely trust and can try a new approach/ routine with him .. with the best will in the world you arent a good match for this horse (you might find no one is so dont take it personally) The other option is call it a day and secure his future at home. I had a friend who had a horse the same as what you have described in all your posts about him and she tried everything over years and had the patience of a saint and still didnt get through to him so in the end she had him pts! I normally have an answer for everything (might not be right but hey ho!) and honestly other than a life on the moors away from people this horse just couldnt cope with any life around people, it was like he just couldnt cope with any pressure or trust his own thoughts or instincts .... i might add he had never had a bad experience in this life and she'd had him his whole life and he was 9 when she called it a day!

Very sad OP, you are rightly gutted so dont rush into anything but maybe a change of scenery Ie. someone else, is what this horse needs? Life is too short to be miserable in a hobby that is supposed to make us happy and pts is not a welfare issue!

He’s been on 4 different yards in 6 months, I wouldn’t pass him on again. I’ve worked hard with him and the hardest thing is, is that he is SO SO good, he has behaved impeccably in situations that I would expect an established older horse to have a meltdown in. He only really acts this way in the field, once caught he’s fine. Seems a bit defeatist to call it a day. It’s just frustrating, but since I’ve had him we’ve had a lot more good and progress than bad.

 

[ImmyS]

He does sound like a funny one

It does sound like he really needs little routines to cling onto though. Some horses just aren't really 'go with the flow' types. They need to feel like they know what they're doing, and if they feel like they're getting the answer wrong they really take it to heart and get quite insecure. If you can't stable him could you maybe try just following the same routine with him every time you come down for a bit and just see if he settles and becomes a bit more consistent?

This is what I’m thinking, I wasn’t planning I feed him as he doesn’t really need it but looks like using a token feed to add routine might help

 

[scats]

I had a horse who I always called semi-feral if he lived out. He’d revert back to looking like an untouched three year old and got very silly about being handled. I tried turning him away after an injury and he became a royal nightmare and I made the decision to bring him back onto the yard and have a routine that did involve some portion of stabling every day. Even once he retired due to injury, I kept him in this routine. He was a horse who would have a meltdown if I wore a new coat, hat or gloves. Could you move yards to somewhere where you have a stable that you could at least use for part of the day?

I also had an ISH who would do this ridiculous ‘terrified of his headcollar’ thing quite randomly in the field. He’d be absolutely fine for a week and then I’d go to catch him and it would take me an hour. He’d let his headcollar go on his nose and then have a complete freak out/rear and turn and run. I had him 7 years and he never changed. He was fine 9 times out of 10 and then he’d just be an idiot again. It only ever occurred in the field so I just accepted it as part of his quirky nature.
If I left a field safe headcollar on him he’d freak out when I took hold of it (even really lightly and gently), but the second I clipped him on he was fine. Daft lad.
I used to drop the headcollar and go and chat to his mates or I’d stand in the field looking very fixated on something in my hand or pocket and the sod would come over. I’d simply walk away from him a few yards until I had him following me around. Then I’d start stroking his face and making a fuss - no headcollar near him at this point. I’d read him a bit and if I felt he was still on edge I’d make a fuss of him and leave the field, perhaps returning ten minutes later and doing the same.
It was a pain, but he was a weird one. He didn’t get the nickname hooligan for no reason!

 

[gnubee]

One of mine won’t be caught in the field. In the unlikely event that you can get a rope on her (field safe head collar always on) she settles immediately and is very friendly, but even in her good patches I only manage that about one time in 20 if I try to catch her. When I was going in the field to get her on a regular basis it had got to the point where I was spending a couple of hours quietly approaching her to try to catch and she was quietly walking away, and often she wouldn’t even come and take a bucket of feed from me.
Now, she is fed in the field near the entry every day. She can come or not come, but I’m not moving past the gateway. It took a bit for her to settle into the routine, but she now pretty much always comes, and when she’s eating I can put a rope on as long as I don’t do it too often. Even easier is letting her bring herself down to the stable, at which point I can do anything with her. I don’t know what her issue with being caught is (though have seen other people describe very similar problems with theirs). I do wonder if it’s to do with her being the lead mare in the field and worrying about being taken away from them whilst others are still out or not appearing to be in control in front of the herd.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

This is what I’m thinking, I wasn’t planning I feed him as he doesn’t really need it but looks like using a token feed to add routine might help

That is what I would do, I find that horses like to be able to predict what their humans are going to do. feed time, gives them a 'hook' to hang their understanding on.

 

[ImmyS]

I had a horse who I always called semi-feral if he lived out. He’d revert back to looking like an untouched three year old and got very silly about being handled. I tried turning him away after an injury and he became a royal nightmare and I made the decision to bring him back onto the yard and have a routine that did involve some portion of stabling every day. Even once he retired due to injury, I kept him in this routine. He was a horse who would have a meltdown if I wore a new coat, hat or gloves. Could you move yards to somewhere where you have a stable that you could at least use for part of the day?

I also had an ISH who would do this ridiculous ‘terrified of his headcollar’ thing quite randomly in the field. He’d be absolutely fine for a week and then I’d go to catch him and it would take me an hour. He’d let his headcollar go on his nose and then have a complete freak out/rear and turn and run. I had him 7 years and he never changed. He was fine 9 times out of 10 and then he’d just be an idiot again. It only ever occurred in the field so I just accepted it as part of his quirky nature.
If I left a field safe headcollar on him he’d freak out when I took hold of it (even really lightly and gently), but the second I clipped him on he was fine. Daft lad.
I used to drop the headcollar and go and chat to his mates or I’d stand in the field looking very fixated on something in my hand or pocket and the sod would come over. I’d simply walk away from him a few yards until I had him following me around. Then I’d start stroking his face and making a fuss - no headcollar near him at this point. I’d read him a bit and if I felt he was still on edge I’d make a fuss of him and leave the field, perhaps returning ten minutes later and doing the same.
It was a pain, but he was a weird one. He didn’t get the nickname hooligan for no reason!

He sounds very similar, I think I’m just having a strop because we had a really good couple of months. Just have to accept maybe that it’s just his personality and accept that there’ll be maybe more good days and bad days than some other horses.

 

[southerncomfort]

Am I right in thinking he's welsh? I'm not one for automatically putting things down to 'welshness' but a lot of welshies are very inconsistent in their behaviour and catching is often an issue.

I think the thing with them is that they thrive on routine, so if you've had a summer of bringing in for a feed, going for a ride or out to a clinic/comp etc and he's become used to this....and then along comes Autumn and you think you're doing him a favour by leaving him the field more, giving him a little holiday, not bothering him so much. Makes perfect sense to the owner but it may have thrown him a bit.

I'd try working out a routine that works for you both and stick to it for a good 2 weeks and see if he turns a corner. He's a good horse and I know you've had a fab time with him, I'm sure he'll come right.

 

[ester]

SC he is part welsh

I was going to mention 'routine' even if minor, ie catch, groom, feed turn out at roughly the same time each day. Some of us really do need routine/not too much change .