any advice???? shes still lame

_daisy_

_daisy_

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 March 2005
Messages
5,619
Location
South Yorkshire
Visit site
i really cant believe my luck at this moment in time. Everything seems to be on a downer.
So on Wednesday I posted to say I need postive vibes from everyone as Ebi was lame. Well ive given her bute this week and got her out of the field today to see how she is on hard ground.
Well she was a bit odd at first but then she started walking better but still not 100%. Asked her to trot which she did but still very lame.
mad.gif


So apart from giving the vet a ring I really havent got a clue what to do. I feel so sad about it. She doesnt deserve to be like this. I really dont know what to do or where to turn. I just want to cry
 
theres no swelling at all. Theres some heat around her NF fetlock down.
Ebi was diagnosed with ringbone in both her front feet in her coffin joints and then later found out it has started in her fetlocks. Her NF has always been the worse out of the two and this is the leg she is lame on. Shes had numerous exrays to see how is it progressing, but the last time she had them done was around June 05 - just before she was retired (she has been sound since then) The last time before that was October 04 (when she was diagnosed). The ringbone had got lots worse in those 8months that why we retired her.
Im hoping its nothing to do with it but i know deep down it is but i dont know if i can face the harsh truth of what is to happen to her. I will always do the best for her, but i know what my vet is going to say and I dont want to hear it.
 
((hugs)) I know its hard, but I think some more x rays may be usefull, I'ts hard hearing things that we don't want to hear but it's in the horses best interest...........you never know it might not be related to the ringbone but it's better to know so you can do whats best for Ebi.

XXX chin up XXX you can always PM me if you need a shoulder to cry on / someone to vent at
 
its very hard. I just think what will the exrays tell me that I dont already know? I know that i want them done because at least i wont have any doubts about what it is before the dreaded day.
I kind of hope that it isnt something to do with her ringbone but because of previous timings i just know it is.
My vet knows whats going on with Ebi as he always checks her over when he sees one of my others. He always asks how shes getting on and if im having any problems. So far ive been able to say no problems but im dreading making the call on Monday
thanks for saying i can PM you for a chat but youve set me off crying now.
crazy.gif
 
Can you borrow a couple of bioflow boots and leave them on full time for a few days? Our old stallion had arthritis problems in one leg and often went totally sound for weeks after doing that.
Usually if they are no better after a week's ret you need the vet..
 
i didnt think they could have them on 24hrs? ive got some Bioflow brushing boots ill put them on her tonight to see if they help. If they get too muddy (as she lives out 24/7) i can always swap them and see if she can fit into the ponies set ive got.

Ill give my vet a ring tomorrow anyway to see what he says but ill see if the bioflow boots help her.
 
You know you can PM me whenever, after all, you're going to be getting loads over the next few weeks
wink.gif


I think it will ease your mind if you speak to the vets tomorrow morning.
 
Cheers Rebecca - yes good deal re PM's.
yes going to call them first thing when the vet centre opens - hopefully hell be there if not ill have to wait till he calls me later on in the day. Dont really want any other vet to deal with her as he knows everything that has gone off and he knows how stroppy she can be!!
 
its either on the inside.[rng bone,navic, laminitis etc] or on the out side,[bruised sole, frog ,abcess etc] you,r vet will be able to tell. while you are waiting for vet,clean and wash out foot, press hard with blunt something, all around sole in front of frog. watch for pain reaction. then poke around frog and heelslooking for tenderness. if the horse reacts to any of this, you will have found the prob. so if bruised sole, anti inflams.no walking on sharp ground, boot with plenty of bandage at bulbs. if abcess, poultice boot, anm lintex for 2 days, then walk to burst abcess at heels or cor band. gd luk
 
thanks for this.
she had her shoes put back on on Tuesday last week. Farrier did tests on her and thought that it could be 50/50 with the sole being sore and her ringbone playing up. There is no problems with her frog, heels, toe etc. She is feeling much better in herself tonight but still not right on her NF.
Re: [ QUOTE ]
so if bruised sole, anti inflams.no walking on sharp ground, boot with plenty of bandage at bulbs. if abcess, poultice boot, anm lintex for 2 days, then walk to burst abcess at heels or cor band.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is easier said than done. Ebi lives out 24/7 with her 7month old foal who isnt yet weaned. I only have a 12x12 stable available for me to use and as her foal is getting huge they wont fit in.
Vet wont be coming out to her tomorrow, ill be just speaking to him to see what he thinks. If he wants to see her he will probably book her in for Friday so I can take her to the centre itself or whenever he can fit her in up there as I dont really like the portable exray machine - its so much easier when you can get them developed there and then.
 
was she lame before being shod, or after. im sure you thought of that. if she is in a field with a foal then why is she shod, would,nt this be an ideal time to give her a rest from shoes . i have just noticed you say she is retired, well in that case off with the shoes, nice natural trim to balance her feet, this will ease stresses on her tendons navic area, pedal bone ringbone[depending where it is] it will also reduce concussion in her p1,2,3,joints, all of this is assuming she has good soles, g d luk
 
She went lame before having her shoes put on.
In her ridden career if she threw a shoe she went immediately lame - she had poor soles and to be truthful poor feet in general - well the quality of the hoof wall etc. She could never keep shoes on her NF more than a few weeks. She couldnt go out in the field without overreach boots on when it was really muddy.
She has been on Forumla4Feet since her diagnosis and her feet are now the best theyve ever been. My farrier is really happy with the quality and the rate at which her feet are growing.

I had her shoes removed in September ish and had planned on leaving her barefoot completely but due to the lameness obviously this may not be able to happen.
When Ebi was originally diagnosed with ringbone she had to have remedial sheing to help her.
[ QUOTE ]
Ebi was diagnosed with ringbone in both her front feet in her coffin joints and then later found out it has started in her fetlocks. Her NF has always been the worse out of the two and this is the leg she is lame on. Shes had numerous exrays to see how is it progressing, but the last time she had them done was around June 05 - just before she was retired (she has been sound since then) The last time before that was October 04 (when she was diagnosed). The ringbone had got lots worse in those 8months that why we retired her.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
i have 10 unshod horses, all in work. i found that all the littleprobs they had all left arter being deshod. you cant continue to nail into an already sore foot/joint etc. it was working in shoes that caused her probs over time so if you can have her trimmed fairly low at the heel and her toe rounded up off the ground. ie all her hoof wall and heels/bars all equal ,above sole[max a pound coin ish and min level with sole] making sure the frog is also level without much or any trimming.this is all a must, and then you could stickon imprint shoes etc if she needs more protection.
 
Firstly ill apologise for all the quotes!

i dont fully disagree nor fully agree with this.
[ QUOTE ]
it was working in shoes that caused her probs over time

[/ QUOTE ]
this doesnt seem to agree with that comment
[ QUOTE ]
Causes of Ringbone
Excessive tension on the tendons, ligaments, and joint capsules of the pastern area can strain the periosteum. The body compensates by growing bone at the stresspoint. Strain on the extensor tendon, the superficial digital flexor tendon branches, the collateral ligaments, and the distal sesamoidean ligaments are all common factors. If these tissues are stretched or torn, and the joint is instabilized by the injury, new bone is produced to help to stabilize the joint.
Osteoarthritis (the endstage of degenerative joint disease) of the pastern or coffin joint is a very common cause of articular ringbone. Bone is then produced to try to immobilize the joint and to relieve the chronic inflammation of the joint capsule. This process may take years, and lameness will continue until the joint is completely immobilized.
Trama to the periosteum can cause bone growth on the pastern bone. However, this is usually not progressive unless nearby soft tissue was also harmed and thus the joint instability was affected.
Poor shoeing and conformation, such as long, sloping pasterns, upright pasterns, long-toes with low heels, pigeon toes, splay foot, or unbalanced feet may predispose the horse to ringbone, as they create uneven stress on the pastern and coffin joint, unequal tension on the soft tissues, or worsen the concussion that is absorbed by the pastern area.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I ask what you think to this that I have pulled off the internet on ringbone?
[ QUOTE ]
Ringbone is degenerative (unless it is caused by direct trauma). Treatment works to slow down the progress of the bony changes and alleviate the horse's pain, rather than working to cure it.
Shoeing: The farrier should balance the hoof and apply a shoe that supports the heels.

[/ QUOTE ]
and what about this comment?
[ QUOTE ]
Trimming the horse with heels too short and toes too long, as is often done to encourage a longer stride, increases the risk of ringbone because it stretches the back/lower (toward the ground) sides of the joints while pushing the upper/top edges of the bone close together. To check for this, view the pastern and foot from the side. That imaginary line running from the middle of the fetlock (on the side of the fetlock in this case) should again cut right through the middle of the pastern and foot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a lot of people are going down the barefoot trimming path but its not suuitable for all horses. If it was then we wouldnt have farriers.
Yes farriers will say that the horse needs to be shod to keep their income coming in, however I have 2 very good farriers who will advice me on the bet for my horse not their pocket. Both have said that Ebi would be best shod on the front and leave her backs unshod. It had worked for a good long until I retired her and tried to go barefoot however just recently barefoot doesnt seem to be suiting her.
 
hi there,you little quoter. firstly why are you asking for advice when you have all the old advice at hand. is it not that everything you have tried and done has failed. ring bone is a little growth of unnatural bone that grows on the lower bony column.if it is situated close to the moving joint, then there is little can be done short of surgery to remove it. so you must put the horse down , or make it as comfortable as you can with anti inflams and properly shaped feet. you quote where ddft probs cause copensatery growth, well if so what caused the ddft prob.?[concussion] you say the horse was always lame when barefoot, well naturally,she had her intire wearing surface removedto nail on shoes.when i said to lower the heels idid,nt mean to lower them to any extreme . the horses footwill tell you what shape it wants to be. the rough guide is the sole[if in good condition]that is where the bone is, it is theposition of the bottom outer edge of the coffin bone, it,s actually acouple of mm higher at the back. so for max comfort and relaxed tendons that is the only position for that foot of that horse at that time. everything is about the bone/sole. position. you said something about what you,r farrier said or did. well i know many farriers ,and they are all hard working great lads, but nomatter how good they are there job is to prepare the hoof and fit a shoe,and that,s it. so if you have a lame horse you call a vet, and if he thinks something needs doing to the feet, he will tell you to call a farrier.you,l be running around in circles. in my work when such probs happen, the farriers and vets call me. if you think about it ,if the vet knows what the prob is he is not set up to trim the horse in the remedial way required. and the farrier dosent know what is required, if he did he would be the ideal man for the job. by the way i am not part of the barefoot movement where people are convinced that they can trim horses after a week or two. i have learned ouer 20 years that every trim is a remedial trim suited only to each individual foot of each horse. so to repeat myself. if you, horse has joint obstructing ring bone, or non obst,ringbone, if you really want him comfortable, you must stop nailing on any sort of shoes[he is sore is he not] you must trim his feet as i described, and then if he is not comfortable you must give himsole protection untill his feet grow a little. sole protection that will stay on for 6/7 weeks can be the imprint plastic i mentioned or vettec superfast, you can look these up on the web you must trust in something. i have cured countless horses with this method. gd luk
 
hi,
im sorry if you feel I have all the advice I need on the internet, however a few people on here have horses that have been diagnosed with Ringbone - some low and some high ringbone. A lot of these horse owners have given me good advice in the past and may have dealt with the same problems I am having with Ebi my mare.
Since Ebi was diagnosed with ringbone I always said that when she was unhappy, or was having problems I would talk to my vet about further action and if the best thing was to have her PTS then this is the route I would take. I certainly dont want to keep her alive if she is in constant pain and not comfortable just so I can see her in the field everyday. What live would this be for her? Im not that kind of horse owner. She has been one of those horses that has taught me lots and weve done everything together. She deserves the respect and if this means PTS then so be it. However she doesnt look like she is ready to go yet.
Im sorry if I misunderstood what you werre saying about leaving her heels a bit lower and toes rounded.
I totally understand where you are coming from but each horse reacts different to each type of treatment whether this be shoeing or barefoot for example. Ebi has never grown a lot of foot, even to the point of some times when the farrier has been he has pretty much just rasped the foot in shape rather than trimming any foot off as there isnt any to take off (actually could do with some on) Over the last couple of years the hoof growth has been steadily getting better until now. She was trimmed roughly December time and when my farrier came the other day to fit shoes she had practically worn her feet down. This is abnormal for her. She has lived in the same field for the last few years. nothing has changed in the field and there is no hard cored/stoney area. I cant understand why her feet were in the state they were & neither can the farrier.
Can I ask what job you do when you say farriers and vets contact you? are you a remedial farrier?

If I am able to get Ebi sound and/or comfortable and do manage to get her back barefoot but needs sole protection what would you advice - the vettec or imprint shoes in specific? would this be suitable for a horse that lives out 24/7? ill look up info on the vettex and imprint but can you give me any other specific info on them?
 
hi e c w i got you,r answer this morning. i am a hoofcare specialist, and have been since i studied at the royal stud in saudi arabia. i went there to shoe sound horses and do remedial work on lame horses, after5 years constant study,and working with vets, i have never shod a horse again.there are now so many better options, we must move on like we do in every other field, except horses feet. just look at the options the farrier has. sound horse,rasp and nail on shoe. lame horse,rasp and shoe. horse with poor feet, try to nail on shoe, or wait untill we can. just think about it. all nails are up through the lamina, some hit the coffin bone. they freeze in winter, restrict blood flow.cause concussion in the joints, restrict hoof growth, and worst of all ,support the hoof wall at the outer rim which encourages the bony column to press down through the unsupported middle. you mentioned all horses.well the principal is the same for all horses, but angles will vary from horse to horse[different shaped pedal bone] but never the less the sole will tell you where the bone is so use that info. even if the sole is not good,still go with that shape then strengthen the sole.it,s hard for me to say for sure without being there. but i think she did,nt wear her sole in the field,ithink she has a degree of bulged sole[sinking]this would be easly seen, the frog trenches would look not very deep,the frog would look squashed,and you would see a smiling face shaped buldge between the frog tip and the white line at toe.you hit the nail on the head when you said she could do with some hoof put on, that is what she needs. i will dend you a p m so you can contact me if you wish. lets look at where you are at. with shoes you will need to shoe her when needed, 4/8 weeks and she wont improve. if you balance her feet and put on a vettec custom shoe it will stay on for about 7 weeks ,and after that if she needs it yoi can do the same again,by that time she should be fine. if you want to ring me on07736877358, feel free. g luk hoofsculpture
 
thanks ever so much for this.
Ebi isnt a normal BHS quote for the shoes of every 4-6 weeks. She can easily go up to 12 weeks (however I dont let her go that long)
Ive spoke to my vet who is quite concerned that the symptons have come so agressive in such a short period. He has mentioned a possibly infection or abcess in her foot but thinks that this might not be the case. He is also very interested in her wearing her feet down so quickly and in very odd circumstances - he also thinks its so odd that she has worn them down when she lives in a field with no hard standing/hard core.
I have subsequently booked her in for examination on Wednesday morning. I will obviously be fetching her in and cleaning her up so I will take some photos of her feet and send them to you if you would like? - then you know what im faced with and where we are at the moment and you could give me exact information. Ill see if i have any on the computer at home that shows what her feet were like - but wont be able to get them till tonight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top