any advice welcome!!!

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scazz28

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Hi, i bought a 5 year old gelding 2 weeks ago, the first week i had him, he was a saint, he was in a fenced off paddock by himself, so he could get to know the others over the fence for the first week. I then turned him out into the big paddock last wednesday, i went up on weds afternoon and got him out and rode etc, and did the same on the thursday. However on the friday i went to get him out he let me catch him and put the head collar on, but then would not move, he eventually ended up rearing up and running back to the others, so someone else helped me get him out in the end, put a chifney on him and then someone walked behind him and he came out fine. Then on saturday i put the chifney on and got someone else to walk behind me and he came out fine. sunday was a good day, went down by myself, put the chifney in and a little tap with the whip and he walked with me. However on monday i went to get him in, i was there for 20 minutes and he would not move, even with my tapping him with the whip, evenutally someone else came and walked behind him and he came in. Today i went and tried again, was there for another 20 minutes by myself and then someone came and helped me, hwoever this was the first time he stopped even when someone else was behind him but we then got him out. I have now put him into the fenced off bit of the paddock so he is not out with the other horses at the moment, to try and see if this makes it easier for me to get him in, as he was fine to get in when he was in there before! Ill point out that once he is out the paddock he is fine on the yard, will stand still once tied up and is fine to ride and lunge, and he is fine to catch just wont move once he is caught. So what i am thinking i am going to do is leave him turned out in the fenced off bit for 5-7 days, and then try turning him out in the big paddock again and see what happens. However if anyone else has ever dealt with a similar experience please feel free to say what you did and what gadgets you have used! any advice would be great! and sorry for writing a book, thanks!!!!!
 
Leave him with his field mates, because it's not fair to keep him on his own.

I'm assuming when he planted that you circled him to try and get him moving?
 
He just sounds like he is napping.

I wouldn't resort to too many gadgets. Just keep doing what you are doing - don't let him win. Don't let him turn round or go back, just stand there if need be. I would turn him round in a few sharp circles whenever he stops and then ask him to walk forward again. It throws them off what they were doing for a split second - they think they are winning by turning round, and by the time they've realised that they are going away they are already walking. You may have to do this a few times. Reward him with your voice when he does move forward.

I would think that putting him in the other field on his own won't do anything - when he gets back to his friends he will do the same again. He is testing you and has to learn that he goes with you when you ask and then gets to return to his friends.

Perhaps bring him in sometimes and just fuss him for a bit, then turn him out, so he doesn't always associate coming in with work?
 
What are you doing when you bring him in?

If it's work daily then he'll probably be getting fed up. I'd leave him with field mates but vary the routine. Bring him in for a small feed some days, a groom others, ride others etc.

2 weeks isn't long at all, get some trust, why should he leave his field mates for you? I wouldn't isolate. How many horses are out with the others? Mine can't cope with a large group of horses however a small group and she's happy.

Pan
 
loop a second rope around the hindquarters so that you can encourage him forward from behind when he naps,

or if a horse plants, the first thing you need to do is un balance it, lots of small circles then ask for him to walk on, praise every forward step and the second he plants ask once for forwards movement but if he refuses, circle again a few times and then walk on.
 
Have you tried just getting him to move in any other direction? Turning him in a circle gets his feet moving, or just moving him left or right, anything to get his feet moving. Basically, you have to be in charge of his feet. So, backing up, moving side to side, tight circles puts you in charge of his movements and once he's made a single step you are the one in charge. Just letting him stand gives him the upper hand and trying to pull him forward is encouraging a tug of war that you simply can't win!

Everything is new and strange, so he naturally wants to stay with his own kind, so I would spend some time doing groundwork and join-up type work with him.

Imagine - you are kidnapped by terrorists. They put you in a room with some people who are friendly and you feel a bit happier. Then a terrorist walks in and tries to drag you away from your new friends and you have no idea what he has in store for you. I bet you'd try and plant your feet!

A bit extreme I know, but try seeing things from your horse's perspective.
 
woooww thanks for all that

i have tried turning him round in circles when i have caught him, and can get a few steps out of him, but he seems that i can do that for a bit, then if he gets a bit to far away from them then he just bolts away from me and runs back to them, and i am not strong enough to hold him all the time.

i actually have been bringing in him for just grooming and feeding as i didnt have a saddle at first and then he lost a shoe, so he doesnt always get work, so i would be hoping he doesnt associate coming in means hard work!!

It just strange that i thought if he was that stressed about leaving them, he would be whinning and calling out to them and being stressed when he is out on the yard, as he cant see his paddock from the yard.

i was thinking of varying having him on his own, then turning him out with the others and then back on his own, and then back out with others for a while, i know a lot of you dont agree with him being on his own, but i am just trying to think of new things, as what i am doing at the moment doesnt really seem to getting us anywhere!
 
It just strange that i thought if he was that stressed about leaving them, he would be whinning and calling out to them and being stressed when he is out on the yard, as he cant see his paddock from the yard.
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He's just being a bit of a bugger by the sounds of it, and getting your measure. Your aim for the rest of the week should be bring him in - do what you want, and then turn him out again - on your own, and with enough time put aside for it to take as long as it's going to take.

The worse thing you can do, imo, is to vary his turnout. It's very important that he settles within his herd. And mucking him about will result in his behaviour getting worse.
 
PandorasJar said:
I'd definitely avoid this. You may cause yourself far more issues on him leaving the herd.

Pan
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see when i turned him out today into the fenced off bit he didnt stress or anything just walked in fine (he can see the other horses from here) and then i went back and checked half an hour later and he was just eating. I dont know if maybe the issue could go back to the fact where he was before, was he was at the girls house and she only had one other horse!!
 
scazz28 said:
woooww thanks for all that

i have tried turning him round in circles when i have caught him, and can get a few steps out of him, but he seems that i can do that for a bit, then if he gets a bit to far away from them then he just bolts away from me and runs back to them, and i am not strong enough to hold him all the time.

i actually have been bringing in him for just grooming and feeding as i didnt have a saddle at first and then he lost a shoe, so he doesnt always get work, so i would be hoping he doesnt associate coming in means hard work!!

It just strange that i thought if he was that stressed about leaving them, he would be whinning and calling out to them and being stressed when he is out on the yard, as he cant see his paddock from the yard.

i was thinking of varying having him on his own, then turning him out with the others and then back on his own, and then back out with others for a while, i know a lot of you dont agree with him being on his own, but i am just trying to think of new things, as what i am doing at the moment doesnt really seem to getting us anywhere!
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As someone said you need to get him moving and be in control (you dictating, not him) even if this doesnt result in you necesarily bringing him in, bring him out of the field, close the gate, walk him in 1 circle, and stick him out, really confuse him:rolleyes: To ensure you can turn him, stand at his shoulder and pull his head round towards you (almost as if you are doing stretches, once he is stretched around, just give his hindquarters a push... you'll trigger him moving away from you. Clicker training is also an option. But I think the best way to tackle this is a 'you WILL move when I want you to move' attitude, as long as you manage to get some form of movement... you have won that battle. It also seems to me that he doesnt take the mickey when people are behind him, this is why I suggested trying with a rope around his quarters (like they use on foals) it may be that a little 'pull' on the rope is enough to trigger him to move forward.
 
I dont know if maybe the issue could go back to the fact where he was before, was he was at the girls house and she only had one other horse!!
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No, it's because he's being a cheeky bugger. Believe me.
 
scazz28 said:
see when i turned him out today into the fenced off bit he didnt stress or anything just walked in fine (he can see the other horses from here) and then i went back and checked half an hour later and he was just eating. I dont know if maybe the issue could go back to the fact where he was before, was he was at the girls house and she only had one other horse!!
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My issue wasn't with turning separately there, it was with changing it all the time. That will not do you any favours. Mine doesn't do well at all with a huge group however I always have at least one companion in with her.

Agree totally with Amy May, he's just testing boundaries and taking the pee a little. Why should he trust you over them, you need to prove to him you can be in control and you won't give up on him.

Pan
 
I have to say I don't like the sound of a chifney being used - perhaps a dually headcollar might be better? He sounds to me like he is just napping but you really need to get after him. Perhaps a little bit of feed might encourage forward movement, the circling is a good idea and I would take a schooling whip and give him a good hard flick if he doesn't listen. A pair of gloves and a lunge rein will help too as this will give you additional leverage and also allow you to get out of the way if he does play up.

Ground work in the school would also be beneficial as you could teach him to walk, trot, walk, halt, walk, back etc - loads of transitions will help. Be firm and expect and immediate response to the verbal command and if he does not respond immediately either a firm jerk on the headcollar for a downward transition or a flick with the schooling whip behind you to make an upward transition.

Most of all, you need to get angry with him when he does plant - this is very naughty and can be dangerous and nipping this type of behaviour in the bud is a must.

Best of luck.
 
I have to say I don't like the sound of a chifney being used
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No I don't, my preference would be a simple bridle.

But I also don't agree that the OP needs to get angry with the horse either. Calm and determined would be my preference.
 
thanks for all that,

the only reason i am using a chifney is because on the friday he reared up when i tried to get him to turn in a circle and actually struck out at me, so i am using it just for safety measure, tbh i actually hate the use of them, but am just using it so i feel a bit safer!

i do take a schooling whip in with me, and give him some flicks with it, but he actually doesnt move when i do, so maybe ill do some ground work in the school teaching him to do that!

i have also tried tempting with food, and he still will not literally just plants his feet and doesnt move, little bugger!!

ill just have to keep going and standing my ground and see how he goes, fingers crossed he starts to learn.
 
I agree that he is being a pain - he is not coming in because he knows he doesn't have to, and you're not going to make him... He goes when someone else comes because he thinks they are going to make him...

I don't like Chiffneys, but would rather OP was safe than let a mickey taking type learn that rearing gets him freedom..

I would be as stubborn as him. If he doesn't want to move, stand there. He doesn't get to go back, he doesn't get to eat, his only option is forward... He will soon work it out. You may be there for an hour the first few times, but the message goes in that you are not going to give in..
 
Honey08 said:
I don't like Chiffneys, but would rather OP was safe than let a mickey taking type learn that rearing gets him freedom..

I would be as stubborn as him. If he doesn't want to move, stand there. He doesn't get to go back, he doesn't get to eat, his only option is forward... He will soon work it out. You may be there for an hour the first few times, but the message goes in that you are not going to give in..
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yeah i dont like chifneys, had to actually go out and buy one for him as i see it as a last resort, but dont want him to learn that he can just rear up in my face.

I think your right i think i just need to be stubborn like him, we will both just stand in the field until he realises he has to come in!!
 
I would also recommend doing some ground work and perhaps getting some professional help to nip it in the bud quickly. I say this because I had a horse who used to let you catch him quite happily and would then set his neck and take himself back to the herd when he got further away than he was happy with.

This became a real pain as I could never get him in on my own. I eventually got a natural horsemanship person out and with 3 hours groundwork per day he became much better but I didn't have time for that everyday so ended up having to sell him (after 18 months I did persevere). I think by the time I'd got some help he realised his strength and that he could use it against me and it was too late.

Incidentally he was much better on his own he got very attached to his field mates and would stress constantly if left alone, but out on his own permanently he was fine.

Good luck it's really frustrating.
 
Tilda said:
This became a real pain as I could never get him in on my own. I eventually got a natural horsemanship person out and with 3 hours groundwork per day he became much better but I didn't have time for that everyday so ended up having to sell him (after 18 months I did persevere). I think by the time I'd got some help he realised his strength and that he could use it against me and it was too late.

Incidentally he was much better on his own he got very attached to his field mates and would stress constantly if left alone, but out on his own permanently he was fine.

Good luck it's really frustrating.
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yes it really is frustrating! do you think if you had got the time to do the ground work it would of worked? and also how did you find a natural horsemanship person from, did you just search for one or did you know of one? might give that a try but want to make sure i find someone decent!! thanks
 
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