Any Bulldog people, any advice appreciated.

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My brother has a British Bulldog bitch (Pat), with Crufts on the TV and A LOT of talk about health of the dogs (especially the Bulldogs) i asked him that if there was an operation that would enable Pat to have a better quality of life with regards to her breathing issues would he consider it, and he said he would, so..................

Does anyone know of any vets (i understand that there are "Bulldog friendly" vets) that could evaluate her or have any advice that i can share with my brother?

Pat is a much loved family pet and is in rude health, just wish she could breathe easier!!!! :(
 
Bulldogs are surprisingly agile..don`t be put off by the media hype ,remember vets only see the defective ones in any breed.
 
Can anyone remember any other television programme that has had such a similar effect, IE everything that has been said in it, being taken as gospel, on such a widespread and diverse area as this?!
 
EAST KENT said:
Bulldogs are surprisingly agile..don`t be put off by the media hype ,remember vets only see the defective ones in any breed.
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They may well be but if this dog can't breathe properly then it is a welfare issue and anything which can alleviate the problem is surely the way forward?
 
True - but OP also mentioned something about Pat's breathing 'issues'. Maybe just the way I read it.

In my experience a high proportion of the bulldogs I come across do have some level of breathing problem. That being said, if a vet has said that Pat is in good health and isn't hindered in anyway at the moment then don't necessarily see a reason for any action to be taken.
 
EAST KENT said:
,remember vets only see the defective ones in any breed.
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Really?

Nobody ever takes their dogs for vaccinations any more then? Pet passports? Annual health checks? Even if you have many breeding dogs and keep a closed kennel, they never get seen by the vet for breeding related "stuff"? :cool:

Frankly, I think I would struggle to find a non-defective bulldog if I were given the entire population to choose from. And I'm not taking some TV show as gospel. I've never seen the wretched documentary.
 
Yes really.

Few vets know the breed well. My vet is on the list above and it is rare that we don't see at least one when we go on our (rare) visits. People come for miles for routine vaccs etc. as many find inexperienced vets are determined to find something wrong with their dogs. Prejudices run deep.
 
s4sugar said:
Yes really.

Few vets know the breed well. My vet is on the list above and it is rare that we don't see at least one when we go on our (rare) visits. People come for miles for routine vaccs etc. as many find inexperienced vets are determined to find something wrong with their dogs. Prejudices run deep.
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Interesting - in what way are the vets 'inexperienced'? Surely any small animal vet is trained and qualified enough to tell if a dog has breathing difficulties, and surely they are actually acting against rules if they are 'fabricating' problems just because they are prejudiced against a certain breed?
 
They look for problems and if you look hard enough you can generally find one just as the Crufts vet did with the bulldog. (old scar on her eye that had passed vets previously) The slightest panting through heat, nerves or excitement which is not unusual at a vets - & bulldogs open their mouths very wide to pant so it is obvious - can be mistaken for breathing difficulty.

Not all vets are trained on any but the most standard construction eg.I have had to show vets how to clear ear hair. In one case I had an OES come in for a pre-operative clip down before an Aural resection. I took a thumb sized wax & hair plug out of each ear & the dog never did need that op.
 
Mmm, ok, you also say that 'few vets know the breed very well'. What do they need to know about the breed that is different to any other dog?
 
Try looking at the breed and comparing it to a GSD or a collie. If a collie pants lightly it has it's mouth open half an inch and it is hardly visible. If a Bulldog pants at the same rate you see a huge cracked open mouth because of the width and I do know vets who send in a healthy bullie to new staff to gauge their reaction.

There are some dodgy specimens as with all breeds but a well made bulldog is a sound animal.
 
s4sugar said:
Yes really.

Few vets know the breed well. My vet is on the list above and it is rare that we don't see at least one when we go on our (rare) visits. People come for miles for routine vaccs etc. as many find inexperienced vets are determined to find something wrong with their dogs. Prejudices run deep.
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I didn't say that inexperienced vets aren't sometimes / often incompetent or that some practices don't encourage their vets to dig a little too deep to find a reason to treat any patient, somewhat unethically.

I disputed the comment that vets do not see healthy dogs - which is nonsense. I imagine some vets don't know the breed well - because comparatively speaking there are fewer numbers of bulldogs around (compared to labs, spaniels etc which over-run the place round here). I have yet to see one I would be happy to own, though obviously it would be naive to assume such an animal doesn't exist.

I've met a number of allegedly healthy bulldogs who, imho, had no quality of life, limited exercise tolerance and terribly laboured breathing when not under duress. That's not prejudice - that's just a my experience.
 
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s4sugar said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ta-yvhxhg&feature=share
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Nice dog. But reasonably meaningless since the clip doesn't show its recovery post run - it's certainly fitter and more athletic than most bulldogs you see. Sadly one fit(ish) dog does not justify the breeding of an entire breed, where fit examples seem to be in the minority or the standard of breeding is so apallingly low as to allow the majority of dogs "on the street" to be so lacking in quality of life.
 
Thanks for all your replies,

As mentioned before Pat is in generally very good health for a Bulldog, my brothers last Bulldog was PTS at 3 after numerous issues including "Cherry eye", arthritis, ear canal problems etc. I think that most people that take on Bulldogs are aware, or become aware very quickly, that health issues are part and parcel of the breed.

Pat does have trouble with her breathing and i understand there are operations that can help to open up her airways to enable her to breathe more freely? She also seems to have a small throat so we have to be very carefull about what she eats, she cant have rawhide chews as she seems to also have chewing problems (read that as she is in such a rush to get it down her that she not be bothered to chew!!!:D)

I have seen the vet list that was linked but was hoping for a more "personal" recommendation for vets. We would be prepared to travel to see a vet with lots of experience in the breed, her welfare is paramount and do not want her to be a "training" case for inexperienced vets to get experience on, if you see what i mean.

Thanks
 
The nearest vets on the list is Mike Stockman's old practice but I don't know the current partners. I use Spire in Derbyshire which is a long way away.

Ask the Bulldog Club which specific vet at the nearby recommended practice is the one to deal with.
 
Moomin1 said:
Interesting - in what way are the vets 'inexperienced'? Surely any small animal vet is trained and qualified enough to tell if a dog has breathing difficulties, and surely they are actually acting against rules if they are 'fabricating' problems just because they are prejudiced against a certain breed?
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Now that is where you are so wrong!!Considering what needs covering in their five years of training very little specific training is done;it is only once they are in their first practice that they learn to "fly".All young vets are out to demonstrate their knowledge by finding faults in patients..and simply adore "vetting" a puppy ,pronouncing what they think and shattering new owners dreams.
I will give you a breed specific instance: bull terriers SHOULD have an overshot jaw at eight weeks;the peculiar..to you anyway...head shape means that massive demands are made on the bone develpoement of the upper jaw/headpiece to get that arced topline to the head..a desired feature.At that time the lower jaw is actually lengthening faster than the upper.Hence the need for an overshot one in the new puppy.I need more hands to count on the times some new vet has scared the puppy owners completely s...less by talking about "bone grafts" etc and advising them to return their "defective puppy".Now,as my dogs are all ear tattooed..handy..one I actually photoed ..tattoo included ,at 12 weeks old and 9 months.This info I posted back to the vet "to further his education":mad:
I am sure others in other breeds could give you exactly the same stories about their specific breeds. There is a Hell of a lot to cover in five years on ALL species..a vet`s education really begins once he/she starts in real practice.
 
I have heard some tosh spoken by vets in regard to GSDs, including suggestions of massive corrective surgery and even advice of PTS because of 'bad hips' in very young dogs (it is very hard to diagnose HD correctly before 12 months) all because they are loose behind and in maturity have proved to have nothing wrong with them at all.

I've heard one vet say out loud after collecting £500 that 'all GSDs get hip dysplasia' (I have x-rays and scores to prove this is tosh) the same one told me my dog's hips were shot because he was uncomfortable with her poking and prodding and pulling him - it was in fact a tweak in his back - and our own local practise has expressed concern about my young dog's movement (that's the way they gait) and 'loose ligaments' (he was five months old) and having seen his hip and elbow x-rays at 12 months, I am more than happy.
 
Whilst I am the first to defend vets against some of the unfair abuse they get , I have to agree that there is no way every factor of every breed can be covered at university. Like CC I have heard of many vets making sweeping statements about GSDs and hips, and have personal experience of vets looking at a dog and saying HD, when in fact the dog has good hips and has tweaked a muscle.
EK, I just asked my daughter (newly qualified last year) if she knew about bullies being overshot at 8 weeks and she didn't, so that is one you have educated. Although having said that I think her family background means she won't be making sweeping statements about any breed.;)
 
CaveCanem said:
I have heard some tosh spoken by vets in regard to GSDs, including suggestions of massive corrective surgery and even advice of PTS because of 'bad hips' in very young dogs (it is very hard to diagnose HD correctly before 12 months) all because they are loose behind and in maturity have proved to have nothing wrong with them at all.

I've heard one vet say out loud after collecting £500 that 'all GSDs get hip dysplasia' (I have x-rays and scores to prove this is tosh) the same one told me my dog's hips were shot because he was uncomfortable with her poking and prodding and pulling him - it was in fact a tweak in his back - and our own local practise has expressed concern about my young dog's movement (that's the way they gait) and 'loose ligaments' (he was five months old) and having seen his hip and elbow x-rays at 12 months, I am more than happy.
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See that is basic physiology and (very) basic genetics - which they should be awarre of. It's certainly covered in the course, but in my experience the standards of the actual students are generally quite low (of course, some are OK but the majority are rather frighteningly poor), particularly in their basic scientific education.
 
The former vet is very experienced and is highly regarded.
I know I am not an expert but I DO know my sheps, my mother signed up to the hip scoring scheme back in the 1970s, I have done my research, I can read an x-ray to a degree, I am always trying to educate myself about lines/genetics and I have learned to ask questions and get second opinions - I just worry how many people are putting young, underdeveloped pups through huge and hugely expensive surgeries, or even putting to sleep, on the word of someone they trust to know better.

I am not vet bashing, the vet I am with now is second to none.
 
While we are (subtly) vet bashing, when we were working through that horrible respiratory infection with spotty dog there was one occasion where our usual vet was unavailable and we saw another at the same practice. We were only there for her to sign off on another week of antibiotics but she managed to get in "the longer nosed breeds are always going to be more susceptible to these sort of infections."

This was said very scathingly. The dog in question could not be any more moderate in size and features, she'd have a fit if I took in a borzoi/greyhound/afghan type thing. :p
 
CaveCanem said:
The former vet is very experienced and is highly regarded.
I know I am not an expert but I DO know my sheps, my mother signed up to the hip scoring scheme back in the 1970s, I have done my research, I can read an x-ray to a degree, I am always trying to educate myself about lines/genetics and I have learned to ask questions and get second opinions - I just worry how many people are putting young, underdeveloped pups through huge and hugely expensive surgeries, or even putting to sleep, on the word of someone they trust to know better.

I am not vet bashing, the vet I am with now is second to none.
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CC, that's even more concerning. I can forgive the students and newly qualified vets their greenness, though they can be exasperating. Sadly in any profession there will be dodgy practitioners. A good vet though is worth their weight in gold :)
 
JFTD said:
CC, that's even more concerning. I can forgive the students and newly qualified vets their greenness, though they can be exasperating. Sadly in any profession there will be dodgy practitioners. A good vet though is worth their weight in gold :)
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I think we all agree with this.
Unfortunately all too often a novice believes an equally novice vet - sometimes with tragic results.
 
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