Any competition horses with EPSM or sacroiliac injuries?

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Pony has just had bone scan showing sacroiliac injury, possibly arthritic hocks and then blood tests show on top of the raised liver enzyme problem I already know he has he probably also has EPSM affecting his muscles. I just wondered if any of you had stories to tell about your horses performance pre and post treatment for any of these issues?

Many thanks
 
Join PSSM forum on Facebook for advice on diet.

Also you can get a tail hair test done for 30 quid from Animal Genetics UK for PSSM type 1.

Got to look at entire diet inc supplements as many (most) have a molasses base.

Good chance of managing it with diet tho.

Only had mine officially diagnosed today but known for about 6 weeks it was likely. Have learnt a lot from Facebook group.
 
Thank you, I will look into those. He already has a pretty good diet I think, ad lib hay usually soaked, chopped Timothy unmollassed from simple systems and spillers light balancer. He does get a strip of grass a day. He is a very good doer fat wise but struggles to muscle up even in full schooling work. Adding fat to the diet is difficult as his liver enzymes are high. Vet is going to have their medication/nutrition people look at his muscle and liver enzyme levels and judge the right balance. I will ask about the amino acids. I decided against a muscle biopsy but will look into the tail hair test. They said he has a mild form currently but levels still doubled during exercise and were already elevated pre exercise.
 
Yes I wouldn't have done the biopsy as really what's the point. You already know the horse needs that management plan so to me it's an invasive procedure for no real benefit.

I have discovered selenevite E is molasses based and protexin is also probably a no go which are the supplements I have been feeding her.

I have an additional issue with a high risk of grass sickness where she is now, so she has no access to grass at all and will be fed hay all year round which I will be having analysed.

I've made her a 12v heated blanket for traveling in the trailer and in the process of making a solarium for using pre work from home.

Always have an exercise sheet on her and heavily rugged.

Incidentally she tied up and her symptoms were outwardly very mild. Blood work showed her levels to be off the scale - and the scale goes up to 100,000 (!). Normal is about 400. Three weeks after she tied up she was still ten times above normal while on rest.

I started riding her again today. So far so good. I don't think she is a highly symptomatic horse, I was feeding her oats and working her hard with no issues and no special care for the first five weeks. A week off due to bad weather (no oats fed for over a week at this point) was when it all went tips up. I rode her out the stable up the hill and that was that.

Oh and I've turned her out 24/7.

There are lots of heartening stories about diet and alcar making a massive difference.

Could the liver problem not be related to the PSSM?
 
It may be, I know that's the reason they did the exercise test in the first place. He's had no symptoms at all from liver that I would have picked up on. He is always bright and breezy and hard working, if a little economical in his efforts sometimes. It's only because he went land that vets checked him. Lucky for me they are very good. I'm hoping they will give me lots more info when I collect him. I'm busy writing lots of questions to ask them!

Thanks for all the information and I really hope you get to grips with how to manage your girl. I'll try to get some numbers off my vet, sounds like he is no where near your girl but who knows where he would end up if vets hadn't noticed it now.
 
You wouldn't know there was anything wrong with mine at all. She is extremely forward going, enthusiastic and talented.

I was just thinking if he was regularly mildly tying up that could be causing the issue with the liver.

Is he stabled?

Let me know what they say. It's a whole new ball game for me but I am getting to grips with it now I think.

I think it's absolutely rife in horses and not many people know about it. I had never heard of it.
 
No me either, I'd heard of tying up but didn't realise there was this form. I'll keep you posted.

He is turned out 7am til 5, then in on a yard, so has access to move from big stable to a fenced yard the size of two stables. Unfortunately I can't do 24/7 turnout til the ground dries.

I'll definitely ask about link between liver and muscle. We have had all 5 near me with raised liver enzymes, one died, the others have not been tested for over a year as they are no longer really working horses so effectively resting. I test mine every 3 months as feel it's not fair to work him hard without knowing how he is doing. Had improved to nearly normal in oct to GGT of over 100 now.
 
Mine was prone to tying up and stiffness after exercise when younger, he's never been formally diagnosed as a change in diet and routine seems to have mostly removed the problem, but I am very strick. He lives out 24/7 in summer and has 24 hour soaked hay in winter when his turnout is more limited. I also try to make sure he is kept very fit and well exercised all winter. His only hard feed is Grass Nuts, Fast Fibre, Oil and Vit E Supplement. He still has days when it's very cold and wet when he struggles and you always have to warm him up and down carefully, but most of the time he is still fine to school, jump and hack and compete. As the diet change has so far seemed to work he's never had further enzyme tests.
 
Sorry to hear about your diagnosis :(

My late mare had a sacroiliac injury which ultimately was career ending... albeit that was in combination with kissing spines. As i understand it the 'treatment' for sacroiliac weaknesses is to inject the joint to temporarily anaesthetise the area, and then use the few weeks of no pain to try to build up strength in the back to help the horse compensate for the weakness. My vet explained to me that there was no permanent cure for sacroiliac problems, just careful management by way of keeping the back strong.

I would strongly recommend having a really good chat with your vet to understand the best and worst case scenarios, if you haven't already.

Sorry to be a bit doom and gloom :(
 
Here's a positive SI story for you :)

I have one with SI issues, the joint was medicated over a year ago, we've modified his management and he is sounder than he was 6 years ago when we got him at 11. He doesn't compete as it's not his job, he's my OH's schoolmaster, but he might go do a bit this year as he is so well. He's even jumping again, something we didn't think he could do.

I use a back on track rug day to day which definitely helps and he has acupuncture every few months which really helps.

I'm perfectly willing to have him injected again if needed but so far so good - the more work he does the better he is.
 
Broodle said:
Sorry to hear about your diagnosis :(

My late mare had a sacroiliac injury which ultimately was career ending... albeit that was in combination with kissing spines. As i understand it the 'treatment' for sacroiliac weaknesses is to inject the joint to temporarily anaesthetise the area, and then use the few weeks of no pain to try to build up strength in the back to help the horse compensate for the weakness. My vet explained to me that there was no permanent cure for sacroiliac problems, just careful management by way of keeping the back strong.

I would strongly recommend having a really good chat with your vet to understand the best and worst case scenarios, if you haven't already.

Sorry to be a bit doom and gloom :(
Click to expand...

My experience with Sacroiliac is much the same. My vets sent me away with symptoms being 'schooling issues' every time we got them out to see my promising young event horse, I took him to Newmarket 4 months later where he was diagnosed straight away. After that amount of time and severity of symptoms, numerous tests, there was nothing that could be done to improve it - I was advised to pts - which I did as he was a competition horse through and through and would never have been happy doing nothing.

Sorry to also be doom and gloom. Still disappointed in my vets. Newmarket vets told me if it had been to be diagnosed quicker, he had more of a chance.
 
Geoff has EPSM - hasn't caused any issues really in the last two years. I started off with the whole hog - 24/7 turnout, hay rather than haylage, fed Alfa A oil, ERS pellets and oil, plus a selenium supp. He put some weight on, but continued to be a hard keeper in winter, and never really built his top line.

Best thing ever was changing him to Frickers Formula (which seems like it's too high sugar/starch according to label) and Copra, started bringing him in at night, removed all supps and oil, and started working him on hills. Strengthening up behind, and a low but not super low sugar/starch diet, has been the best move for him. He's been looking better than ever, and working better than ever. He also tended towards being quite squitty, and since the change his droppings have been like a normal horse!

Unfortunately he's just suffered a horrific crush injury to his hind leg which has out our season to an end, but even on box rest that feed (cut back) seems to be working perfectly.
 
It depends what you call a competition horse. My WB gelding was diagnosed with SI injury and very close spinal processes nearly 10 years ago. He initially had steroid injections into his SI Area and inbetween some of his vertebrae. I did loads of physio including daily use of a tens machine and initially a lot of exercises working over raised poles and using a pessoa. Since then he has had one more lot of injections and shock-wave therapy and his hocks injected. I had his feet x-rayed which showed up a negative sole plane which apparently is quite common in horses with SI problems. He wore wedges for a while but didn't work out. I had him on Buteless or similar for a while but he has never needed regular bute. I feel the key to SI problems is strengthening the muscles surrounding it and having regular physio. I am cautious though and at one point in particular his behaviour in the school got me down as he would spin and take-off and it was difficult because I didn't know what was down to discomfort or naughtiness.

Although I toned down my ambitions (affiliated dressage) and have been really cautious I've done a bit of everything with him over the last 10 years- sponsored rides, odd small hunter trial/ eventers challenge, showing, unaffiliated dressage, qualified SE Unaff Champs at Hickstead several times at Prelim and Novice and also competed at elementary. Rarely come home without a rosette. Now if I really wanted to compete above all else then this would probably not be satisfactory. I was incredibly disappointed at the time especially as I lost my previous horse to wobblers at 8 yrs but I adapted and despite his issues he performs a lot better and looks a lot sounder than a lot of horses you see about.

End of August last year he had his annular ligaments operated on and I started him back hacking at Christmas - he seems to be hacking at walk and trot OK and he is 20yrs old this year and still seems to enjoy it. I wouldn't say it has been easy but I've still had a lot of fun and I wouldn't swap him for the world.

Hope it works out for you.
 
Thanks everyone. He is going to be a real challenge to manage as the initial treatment for all his conditions contradicts each other. For his sacroiliac he should be worked, for the EPSM he should be rested for 4 weeks and put on high fat diet but for his liver he should be on low fat diet. Tricky! As long as I can get him sound and keep him happy that's all that matters, I was just interested in how horses at a higher level than him cope.
 
My understanding is that an awful lot of top level competition horses regularly have si joints, hocks and/or stifles medicated. I frequently bump into some very well known showjumpers at my vets having it done. Each case its own of course and I am sure not all are successful, but I have come to realise its a lot more common than I previously thought.
 
Mine was diagnosed with SI pain last year, along with gastric ulcers. He had his sacroiliac joints medicated twice, 12 weeks apart. He has since come back into normal work. I should say however, normal for us is light hacking, very low level schooling and dressage. I don't really jump apart from maybe the odd very low log on a hack and sometimes some raised trotting poles. He also has regular physio which seems to help him release tension in the SI area.
 
Broodle said:
Sorry to hear about your diagnosis :(

My late mare had a sacroiliac injury which ultimately was career ending... albeit that was in combination with kissing spines. As i understand it the 'treatment' for sacroiliac weaknesses is to inject the joint to temporarily anaesthetise the area, and then use the few weeks of no pain to try to build up strength in the back to help the horse compensate for the weakness. My vet explained to me that there was no permanent cure for sacroiliac problems, just careful management by way of keeping the back strong.

I would strongly recommend having a really good chat with your vet to understand the best and worst case scenarios, if you haven't already.

Sorry to be a bit doom and gloom :(
Click to expand...

Echo this in terms of SI treatment, and rehab, but my horse has pretty much come right. It took a long time, and he is older now, but he did make it to the Regionals (Elem music) last weekend, and score 65% despite the torrential rain. So I would say it is possible.
 
My horse had a SI injury 3 months after I'd bought her as a 5 yr old. She had never competed but I'd bought her to event, long story short she came sound and strong and I competed her successfully to 1* BE level with no more problems with SI. She is now retired from eventing at 16 yrs due to unrelated lameness issues with her front feet, but still SJ happily on a surface. She never had any injections for her SI, I just did alot of work of strengthing the muscles around the SI. SI injuries in my experience are not always doom and gloom.
 
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