Any equine nutritionists, advice needed.

JillA said:
Thanks BeingKate.
If people had read my original post they will spot that I said vet is booked for tomorrow - once I know what he has said I'll message you.
NB There is no photo of him in his current condition but he is currently condition score 1 at best (NOT AS IN THE PHOTO!!!!!) and his management is outlined in my original post.
I have sent a link to the loanees who are managing him as best they can, this thread is intended to throw up a few ideas for them to take forward, he is no longer in my care.
*Sigh* Do people not read or have I not written it legibly???
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No need to get stroppy.
I was perfectly aware that photo was of him at his best (which you said was condition score 2), but given I'd put him nearer a 3 on that I was questioning if he really was a 1 now.
Hope the horse is ok, won't waste any more breath now
 
JillA said:
Thanks BeingKate.
If people had read my original post they will spot that I said vet is booked for tomorrow - once I know what he has said I'll message you.
NB There is no photo of him in his current condition but he is currently condition score 1 at best (NOT AS IN THE PHOTO!!!!!) and his management is outlined in my original post.
I have sent a link to the loanees who are managing him as best they can, this thread is intended to throw up a few ideas for them to take forward, he is no longer in my care.
*Sigh* Do people not read or have I not written it legibly???
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There's really no reason to be so damn rude. You posted a question, and people tried to help. You want professional help - that's fine, and probably sensible in this situation. Your post was actually not as clear as you seem to think it is. If you want comments about your horses current condition, post pics of his current condition - don't post a pic of him at his best, and then get snarky because people comment on what they see in front of them.
 
I am quite aware that the horse is not in the same condition now as in the second photo, but you did state in your OP that you had never got the horse above a condition score 1, which seems at odds with the photo shown. It is difficult for people to get a clear idea of the situation from a written description on a forum. And most people seem to be agreeing that getting the vet is a good idea!
 
Well I was confused too..why would you be asking for advice on a Forum if you have 50 years experience? If you wanted advanced technical knowledge I think you might have to pay for it from someone who would want to see the horse and take a proper history. I thought everyone was trying to be helpful...
 
Lets all calm down, everyone has had their say, so OP is armed with a whole list of things to consider. It seems there are numerous possibilities, some of which are not immediately obvious, and many of these conditions would not be experienced anyone even with many years of experience.
Lets hope the current situation can be improved.
 
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Summer pudding said:
How was he managed? IF there is a med problem with OP's horse like malabsorption surely no amount of feed/advice will help here but a blood test would be a good starting point?
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Sorry, the details escape me, but he did need (and still has, I think) medication so it was not just a matter of simply feeding more or better feed. Am sure OP's loaners' vet will consider this.
 
I don't know if you have tried this but my 37 year old arab always improves in condition when fed a hay replacer of happy hoof, speedibeet and fibre nuts. I find that conditioning feeds don't seem to work (at least not with him!) and even last year's spring grass did nothing. This fibre mix saved him from being put to sleep last August.
 
All the advice I can give has already been said. Rule out anything physical via the vet first. IF all comes back clear, I would recommend a balancer, my TB who was a poor doer didn't gain anything from mix, alfalfa and sugarbeet but after changing to a cup of mix, balancer and chaff he soon blossomed. But definately vet first.
 
Kadastorm said:
All the advice I can give has already been said. Rule out anything physical via the vet first. IF all comes back clear, I would recommend a balancer, my TB who was a poor doer didn't gain anything from mix, alfalfa and sugarbeet but after changing to a cup of mix, balancer and chaff he soon blossomed. But definately vet first.
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Has the horse been tested for Cushings? My old one looks poor all the time, despite special feed, oil etc and unlimited hay. He also has 3 1/2 Prascend pills per day, but I cannot improve his weight
 
I would also say it i pain related, my TB (who strangely was a good doer) lost a lot of weight when he was in pain, Good luck with the vet I hope you find some answers.
 
Horsewithsocks said:
Has the horse been tested for Cushings? My old one looks poor all the time, despite special feed, oil etc and unlimited hay. He also has 3 1/2 Prascend pills per day, but I cannot improve his weight
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No wasn't tested for crushings, he was a 7yr old ex racer and just a poor doer according to my vet. After some research I put him on spillers original balancer and he looked great. I don't have him anymore unfortunately.

I would ask the vet if they know of a reason why he still isn't gaining weight. I guess you can rule out worms and ulcers?
 
JillA said:
Thanks BeingKate.
If people had read my original post they will spot that I said vet is booked for tomorrow - once I know what he has said I'll message you.
NB There is no photo of him in his current condition but he is currently condition score 1 at best (NOT AS IN THE PHOTO!!!!!) and his management is outlined in my original post.
I have sent a link to the loanees who are managing him as best they can, this thread is intended to throw up a few ideas for them to take forward, he is no longer in my care.
*Sigh* Do people not read or have I not written it legibly???
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*Sigh* at your rudeness given that people have taken the time to reply with some very helpful suggestions.
 
JillA said:
he was rescued when he came out of racing to go to slaughter and the lorry driver fancied making a few squid and turned him out in a field in mid Wales in January with no rugs or supplementary feed.
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wish the lorry driver could be tethered somewhere in the middle of nowhere and 'forgotten about' until it's almost too late...
 
Summer pudding said:
Our 22 year old TB has been diagnosed, via blood test, as having poor protein absorption. He is on 3 meals a day inc micronised linseed, Bayleys No1, Alpha A Oil and Calm and Condition - diet devised by a nutritonist..plus ad lib good haylage. He is currently on a course of steroids for possible inflammation in the hind gut - he had has every test available and nothing has shown up. He is weighed monthly and has been steadily losing in spite of our best efforts - he is very bright and cheerful. Teeth and worming done regularly. I would def be going down the vet route if I was you.
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My horse had the same thing, I started him on Equishure from KER and within a week he was better, within 3 months he had put on good weight and 6 months down the line he lives on fresh air and is coming into spring carrying a little to much. He's a big TB and this has utterly turned him around, I thought he was going to be pts.

Have a look at the papers and studies done into Equishure, it basically restores the ph in the hind gut. My vet says hind gut issues are an epidemic and I know of several horses now who have been helped by Equishure.
 
Scarlett said:
My horse had the same thing, I started him on Equishure from KER and within a week he was better, within 3 months he had put on good weight and 6 months down the line he lives on fresh air and is coming into spring carrying a little to much. He's a big TB and this has utterly turned him around, I thought he was going to be S
Have a look at the papers and studies done into Equishure, it basically restores the ph in the hind gut. My vet says hind gut issues are an epidemic and I know of several horses now who have been helped by Equishure.
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Scarlett - thankyou so much for your helpful info....i will certainly look into it. Did your horse have any diagnostic tests..or medication...or did he go straight on to Equishure. Any theories about the epidemic of hind gut issues?
 
Coblover63 said:
JillA.... what did the vet say in the end?
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He said he didn't think the horse was too bad (despite the fact that you could clearly see every single rib from 10 feet away and there was nothing on his neck or top line!!!) and suggested they feed some alfalfa products but took bloods, the results of which I haven't heard as yet.
 
Summer pudding said:
What is his current condition score?
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2 on the 5 point score - and that is with ad lib good hay, good rugs, daily feed and stabled at night. Can I just remind everyone this horse is 30 miles away and LWVTB - I'm trying to help them get on top of the problem before the end of the loan period.
 
I perfectly understand your frustration, when you know your horse so well you also know that he should/could be in better condition, the problem is that you are not there every day, you would probably have upped his feed as soon as you saw any loss of weight, but most people are not able to tell. For this reason I suggest the use of a weight tape every week, with a record of feed at the time, the weight should be taken as the average every two weeks, loss/gain/ static. It is very accurate averaged over two weeks.
The other problem is his age.

Also when you had him I suspect you did everything to build his muscle, this is time consuming and not something many people actively work on.
PS I don't think vets are as good as you at telling in this case.

What are the results?
 
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Very frustrating for you. I had similar experiences twice
1. 20 years ago wouldn't put weight on no matter what I fed him so bad I got reported to RSPCA. I had a fantastic vet who did glucose absorption tests and came back with a diagnosis of partial malabsorption of the small intestine. He had a course of steroids and we monitored his feed closely feeding small amounts of simple foods ie not complex ready mixed feeds. He then became occaisionally fat! He lived until he was in his 20s and in the end stiffness got him.
2. A KWPN gelding that I took in. Body score 1 bloods normal etc we struggled for a few months bought him into work and he developed a heart condition which apparently can happen to horses if they have been neglected.
With both horses Teresa Holland was a great help and worked with my vet.
 
JillA said:
2 on the 5 point score - and that is with ad lib good hay, good rugs, daily feed and stabled at night. Can I just remind everyone this horse is 30 miles away and LWVTB - I'm trying to help them get on top of the problem before the end of the loan period.
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At CS 2, which you say he is on the photo you posted of him looking at his best with you, he looks okay. Some horses simply don't carry a lot of weight but if you want to add to it, and ad lib forage and his current bucket feed isn't doing enough, you have to find a way to increase the calories, so fat, carbohydrate, protein, grains, calorie dense feeds, the kinds of things we prefer to avoid. You've had lots of suggestions on this thread, but not from qualified nutritionists, so perhaps that's where you need to go? Ring all the feed companies and see if you can find one that you think offers good advice that you think is worth following.

You say he's well rugged, I wonder if he may be too warm? Depending on the weight of rugs he's in at the moment, I might try dropping down a grade to see if being a bit cooler can prompt him to eat a bit more. If they're too warm, their appetite can decrease and they can lose weight and muscle.
 
Haven't read the whole thread so may be repeating and if so sorry.

Can he breathe properly? I had one with laryngeal hemiplegia who would not maintain weight and the vet said it was a common symptom. A tieback would sort that.

Also I had another ex racer who would not keep weight on, and my supplier ran out of sugar beet and I was shocked to see her gain weight from that moment on.
 
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