Any experiences/information on Cair panels.

[cumbriamax]

Good evening everyone, I've always been a bit traditional when it comes to tack, however, I was in a shop today and looked at a saddle with Cair panels and I was quite impressed by how light it was although having had no experience of Cair/air flocking I don't know if there are any particular benefits or disadvantages with them. I'm looking at saddles at the moment and this was a lot lighter than my traditional saddles, are there any benefits with Cair, any thoughts experiences appreciated.

 

[dreamcometrue]

My Bates saddle has cair. I’ve had it 7 years and ride nearly every day. It’s been a great saddle and no problems with it at all. X

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

All I will say is beware of buying second-hand/used saddles with CAIR panels in; I was well and truly done on eBay a few years ago now.

I bought a Wintec with CAIR in instead of traditional flocking. Got the saddle-fitter out who said mmmhhhh well we need to tweak it a bit to fit yours and OK so let's have a look inside. Then came the pronouncement that the CAIR was basically B@ggered and it would have cost most than what I'd given for the saddle, to replace them.

So basically I had just wasted my money! Saddle only fit for the bonfire essentially.

The other issue I have with CAIR is something a friend pointed out to me: we were at school together and she said that she'd remembered (me too, just about!) from Science at school that hot things, i.e. hot air, expands?? So if the CAIR fits OK cold-backed, when the horse/rider get warmer (as would naturally happen), is then the CAIR going to expand and the fit of the saddle will be different??

For these reasons I am not a fan; wouldn't touch one with a bargepole TBH; give me traditional flocking every time; at least that way you don't need a person with the right gear to fix a job, OR have the expense of having to replace the CAIR if the saddle is actually worth more than the "fix".

 

[maya2008]

Fit well to most things in my experience, but you cannot test the fit without doing the saddle up and putting a rider on. They panels squash and change shape A LOT.

 

[TPO]

Cair was invented invented developed in Australia where its generally a lot warmer(!) than the UK.

In UK cold temps the panels, if stored in a tack room without heating, would go rock solid. Easy to solve by storing in the house in colder months but something worth keeping in mind

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Cair was invented invented developed in Australia where its generally a lot warmer(!) than the UK.

In UK cold temps the panels, if stored in a tack room without heating, would go rock solid. Easy to solve by storing in the house in colder months but something worth keeping in mind

^^^ ahh yess! This is what I was saying in comment above........

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Good evening everyone, I've always been a bit traditional when it comes to tack, however, I was in a shop today and looked at a saddle with Cair panels and I was quite impressed by how light it was although having had no experience of Cair/air flocking I don't know if there are any particular benefits or disadvantages with them. I'm looking at saddles at the moment and this was a lot lighter than my traditional saddles, are there any benefits with Cair, any thoughts experiences appreciated.

I would have a good trial with one some horses really don't like them, one of mine bucked a lot the one time I tried it it is quite a different feeling on there backs.

 

[Fieldlife]

All I will say is beware of buying second-hand/used saddles with CAIR panels in; I was well and truly done on eBay a few years ago now.

I bought a Wintec with CAIR in instead of traditional flocking. Got the saddle-fitter out who said mmmhhhh well we need to tweak it a bit to fit yours and OK so let's have a look inside. Then came the pronouncement that the CAIR was basically B@ggered and it would have cost most than what I'd given for the saddle, to replace them.

So basically I had just wasted my money! Saddle only fit for the bonfire essentially.

The other issue I have with CAIR is something a friend pointed out to me: we were at school together and she said that she'd remembered (me too, just about!) from Science at school that hot things, i.e. hot air, expands?? So if the CAIR fits OK cold-backed, when the horse/rider get warmer (as would naturally happen), is then the CAIR going to expand and the fit of the saddle will be different??

For these reasons I am not a fan; wouldn't touch one with a bargepole TBH; give me traditional flocking every time; at least that way you don't need a person with the right gear to fix a job, OR have the expense of having to replace the CAIR if the saddle is actually worth more than the "fix".

Not sure if you paid peanuts for the saddle? Or how old it was? But the old style cair bags did used to puncture and deflate. The newer style are a lot more resilient.

I’ve had CAIR air bags replaced in past in Bates wintec saddles. It was under £90 for 2 new cair to be sourced and fitted.

Or it’s possible to remove CAIR panels and wool flock as normal. As CAIR saddles contain some flocking, adding more to replace the CAIR shouldn’t be a big job either.

From what you’ve written it sounds like your saddler didn’t give you good advice.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Yes, i had one with cair and I have one with Flayr both great and easily pumped up or down

 

[Barlow]

My old Bates had cair but I had it removed and had flocking put in - I wasn’t a fan at the time. My new Bates has Hart and my horse and i love it - the saddles have come a long way since the early older style cair

 

[ycbm]

Yes, i had one with cair and I have one with Flayr both great and easily pumped up or down

Cair can't be altered with more or less air, only Flair can be altered.
.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Cair can't be altered with more or less air, only Flair can be altered.
.

So the saddle fitter telling me porkies then ?

 

[ycbm]

So the saddle fitter telling me porkies then ?

Yes. Cair airbags are sealed. Only WOW/Flair airbags can be pumped up and let down.
.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Yes. Cair airbags are sealed. Only WOW/Flair airbags can be pumped up and let down.
.

I pump my flayr one myself , maybe she flocked it , I dont have it anymore so cant check ?

 

[cumbriamax]

Thank you for all the replies, it's very much appreciated. The saddle was in a tackshop and is new, I store my saddles in the house so don't know about how cold weather would affect it. Thank you for the information about it being a very different feeling than a traditionally flocked saddle. I don't think there would be an option to trial the saddle I think it would be a case of buying and seeing if it worked out. I think I need to do a lot more research into Cair and Flair systems. Ive heard that people go on courses to be able to fit them and I'm not always convinced that shorter courses are a substitute for a master saddler fitting. Whatever I purchase is likely to need replaced as my horse is likely to change shape.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Thank you for all the replies, it's very much appreciated. The saddle was in a tackshop and is new, I store my saddles in the house so don't know about how cold weather would affect it. Thank you for the information about it being a very different feeling than a traditionally flocked saddle. I don't think there would be an option to trial the saddle I think it would be a case of buying and seeing if it worked out. I think I need to do a lot more research into Cair and Flair systems. Ive heard that people go on courses to be able to fit them and I'm not always convinced that shorter courses are a substitute for a master saddler fitting. Whatever I purchase is likely to need replaced as my horse is likely to change shape.

That was my problem, my leather ideal deal was widened slightly and flayr put in! Still wasnt happy so I eventually went with a thorowgood which I have not had to change the gullet so far in , wide in all the time!

 

[sbloom]

Thank you for all the replies, it's very much appreciated. The saddle was in a tackshop and is new, I store my saddles in the house so don't know about how cold weather would affect it. Thank you for the information about it being a very different feeling than a traditionally flocked saddle. I don't think there would be an option to trial the saddle I think it would be a case of buying and seeing if it worked out. I think I need to do a lot more research into Cair and Flair systems. Ive heard that people go on courses to be able to fit them and I'm not always convinced that shorter courses are a substitute for a master saddler fitting. Whatever I purchase is likely to need replaced as my horse is likely to change shape.

Why not have a fitter out? Many fit Wintec/Bates. Cair isn't adjustable, HART I believe has a shim system, they may all do but I wouldn't recommend owner adjustment for that. Ycbm and others adjust their own Flair so it's possible for someone with good eye and feel.

Temperature - less about the temps you store it at, it's about the air temperature when you ride. Air does have bounce in it when compressed, it will be bouncier when warmer as the pressure will be higher. Plenty of horses and riders will not get on with air panels bit plenty do. Best to try before buying.

That was my problem, my leather ideal deal was widened slightly and flayr put in! Still wasnt happy so I eventually went with a thorowgood which I have not had to change the gullet so far in , wide in all the time!

It's Flair , developed by First Thought Equine, owners of Wow Saddles afaik.

 

[cumbriamax]

Why not have a fitter out? Many fit Wintec/Bates. Cair isn't adjustable, HART I believe has a shim system, they may all do but I wouldn't recommend owner adjustment for that. Ycbm and others adjust their own Flair so it's possible for someone with good eye and feel.

Temperature - less about the temps you store it at, it's about the air temperature when you ride. Air does have bounce in it when compressed, it will be bouncier when warmer as the pressure will be higher. Plenty of horses and riders will not get on with air panels bit plenty do. Best to try before buying.

I will definitely get a fitter out but the shop that was selling the Cair panel saddles only sells and fits that particular brand. I'm always a little wary about companies that train people on a course to fit a particular brand of anything. I will look into another saddler who fit a wider range of saddles. I absolutely would not attempt owner adjustment of the panels if I bought one I wouldn't know where to start!

 

[sbloom]

I would ask for fitter recommendations - sometimes a brand specific fitter is appropriate (so it may be a good idea to say what sort of horse you have, what sort of issues you hope to solve), but for a generalist ie non-specialist brand like Wintec/Bates I can't see it would be the best option.

 

[cumbriamax]

I would ask for fitter recommendations - sometimes a brand specific fitter is appropriate (so it may be a good idea to say what sort of horse you have, what sort of issues you hope to solve), but for a generalist ie non-specialist brand like Wintec/Bates I can't see it would be the best option.

Thanks, I will speak to the fitter. The horses is a 5 year old Registered Irish Draught mare.

 

[Red-1]

I have used both, am a fan of Flair, for dressage at least, and not of Cair.

The Flair is easily adjusted, although the pumps can be tricky to get hold of. I had about 20 minutes of training, and that was sufficient for a general reasonable fit.