Any Help and Advice needed please-dogs fighting!

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DaisyDuke

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Hi all, (well this is long im afraid!!!!)
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After some advice really, we have 2 Patterdale Terriers-2boys- One of them has always been 'top dog' had him for 2 years before we got the 2nd one. Now they get on really well and we've never had to worry about them before-until a few weeks ago when we were on holiday. We had to put them into kennels as we didnt have any1 to look after them and when we got home we were greeted with not only a kennel bill but a vet one too-the dogs had fought BIG TIME! had staples and all sorts in legs, cuts and sores everywhere, antibiotics for both of them etc.
Now the 2nd Patterdale had his bits still so the kennel said they think he matured while we were away and just fought, so they suggested we have him castrated. We really didnt want to but thought it mite help at home as they were still funny with each other and we were having to seperate them if we werent there. And it wasnt fair on them as Patterdale number 1 doesnt have his anymore. (so we thought they might be giving each other mixed messages)
So to cut a long story short, we had Patterdale 2 castrated few weeks ago now BUT they had a HUGE fight at my dads house tonight?
We just dont know what to do for the best-for them. They really go for each other when they fight too, If we're not there im sure they'd fight to the death.
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If anyone has any suggestions or advice please help!
Thanks for reading!!!
Sorry its long but chocolate bourbons if you got this far!!
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Firstly...the maturing whilst you where away part...Im not convinced of that...this is very common for people to send their dogs 2 kennels in pairs and have problems with them fighting..esp same sex and commonly terriers...I have 3 clients/boarders who have had exactly this problem when leaving their dogs in kennels...my belief is that type of environment where dogs are bounding and jumping up at the bars and goading one another through sheer stress/boredom/anxiety could indeed start 2 companion dogs off fighting...if you imagine them jumping up and down...even one jumping up and down retaliating to the dog in the kennel next door then your other terrier having a nip at its mate everytime it goes for the dog next door...hence scraps breaking out between them...causing them to challenge one another.
Even just the sheer frustration of not being able to get to the other dog could have made them turn on one another.

The kennels may have kept them apart after a particurlarly nasty fight....making a meet up very hostile...as usually the more dogs are completely seperated the worse they are upon reunion.

It's pretty hard to stop dog fights esp in bitches or terriers dog or bitch...which are more fiesty in nature and more eager to fight or retaliate.

The only thing I can suggest for safety is that you crate one of them at times when you cannot be present...still in the same room as one another, but with the crate as a barrier, some may suggest the making one a pack leader, i.e feed first, e,t,c but im not convinced of this myself...in some dogs there is no return once this behaviour rears it's ugly head.

If we have problems with fighting dogs within our rescue, we step in as pack leader... to reprimand the trouble maker.

What have you been doing when a fight breaks out?
Is it normally when humans are present that they fight?
Have you seen a pattern as to what triggers it?
Is one dog more eager to start/carry on the fight?

Like I said if I have a problem with dogs fighting...im pretty quick to step in...and be pretty harsh if need be to get the message across that I will not tolerate the behaviour, Im always more than confident that whilst im around a fight wont even get past the growling stage without me being able to stop it, however when im not there...thats different which is why in general there are some dogs I will never leave unsupervised when im out...and generally that with a crate.

Not much help...but others may beable to advise

A sh*t loads of bourbons for getting through that
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My old bitch and son (lab X's) used to fight like hell, one wrong look from one of them and you'd have a fight on your hands.

I definitely agree with Cala you HAVE to be prepared to step in. In the old days when we had thesae dogs it was more than acceptable to smack them, and thats what we did, once they were separated they both had a good wallop right across the nose.

I'm not sure if its easier or harder to reprimand a terrier - one because they are as Cala said, so bloody scrappy, two because they are small and you fear hurting them.

Personally I would separate (are you happy you can do this?) and I'd grab the aggressor by the scruff and he'd get a very sore arse (sorry bunny huggers I 100% believe that in the case of figthing the dogs must be reprimanded severely - so no 'talking to it' advice from me!!)

Then I'd carry on as normal. No chucking one in another room etc because again, as Cala said once you do that re-introductions can be a cause for another fight.
 
Echo the above.

And trying to establish one as pack leader with a Terrier is impossible. I have a mother and daughter that have had fights, the last one ended up with Mouse in the vets for the day and us nearly losing her from shock. Because they've already decided themselves which is leader it makes no difference. We tried to reinforce the mother as leader and tbh she was the one causing the fights not the daughter. We cannot leave them alone together and I wont travel them in the car in the same crate.

You need to step in before a proper fight cracks off. You can pick up when they're about to - a terrier's face says it all. They don't like being eyeballed or scruffed and growled at so you're establishing you're boss by doing this.

Seperating does make things worse, found that one out with two of the big dogs, we ended up having to re home one.
 
Thank you all for the responses and advice.
We had another fight break out this morning as they were seperated over night as we were worried they'd fight in the night and we wouldnt hear them-but like you all have said this is not a good idea as it makes them worse and it has!!
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So think we're gonna try the crate idea (thank u Cala) and see how that goes.
We've also been trying to establish the pack leader issue. If we can see a fight about to break out we've also got a water spray which we spray each one with which seems to be working quite well!!
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But only works if we catch them before it breaks out!
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All good advise from CALA. You might also find that remote spray collars help you to stop a fight more effectively, because you can zap them from a distance!!!
 
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