Any hope for ( I think) a soured show jumper?

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northernnewfiediva

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Please please if any one has any positive stories or hints and tips I would be very grateful. My daughter bought an 11 yo BWB gelding some 3 months ago to sj, mostly local, but with a plan to BS maybe next year. he has not been registered BUT is supposed to be capable - the whole 'not telling the truth' is another story! He is the sweetest horse we have ever had (and there's been a few!), wonderful to look at BUT he has no interest in jumping at a show. He trains reasonably if a bit dull, but shows (we have only been to 2) just seem to shut him down totally. He will go if forced but is clearly not enjoying it at all - he has tons of ability 1.20 is a breeze - not that we are jumping that!
He has beautiful paces when he relaxes, but is definitely worried. His previous owner rode with a heavy hand and well-used spurs and I feel that he is sour... we've had him physically checked, his tack is new and fitted, he is dream to handle, enjoys hacking now BUT he is 'shut down' in a school to start with - he does relax and start to show how super he is but his default is little steps, dropping behind bridle and generally shutting down. yes he also crib bites! He has a bit of separation worry as well.

We have stopped jumping him, except logs etc on hacks, are working on his 'worry' mechanism and things are improving but I don't know if it possible (or fair) to try and turn him right round.
I would love to know if we can get him back to enjoying himself, it would be a shame to sell him, although he will make a dressage horse (70% in first test with us - novice). he fits in our herd well and is impossible to dislike!
Any hints, thoughts or success stories would be welcome.
Many thanks
 
Have you thought about trying a calmer for a while? We use anxi calm on one and it just takes the edge off his worry. Are you planning on hunting him this winter? Lots of reward, make things fun (as you are doing) and hopefully he'll begin to enjoy his work.
 
Many years ago I helped with a couple of Grade A jumpers who had completely soured (to the point of serious napping and rider dumping but only at shows!) and were therefore picked up by someone I knew for a very good price because of this.

They were turned away for a month and then started hacking them and they were encouraged just to relax and did let them slob along on a long rein. They didn't do any schooling sessions for 3 months and then it was started at 15 mins once a week. At 6 months in the flatwork started to be upped but only to up the fitness levels - not to 'aim' for anything. It was a year before they saw a coloured pole or jump wings and then the poles were on the floor and jump wings were just scattered randomly around. They were taken to shows as spectators, they were taken to the beach, they went on fun rides and jumps were re-introduced very very slowly.

The older one (who was 15 when he was bought) never really got his spark back and even though he did eventually get to the point where he would go to a show without completely shutting down and would pop a round of jumps you could tell that he wasn't happy doing it - the thing he did love however was hunting and XC.

The younger chap (who was a 10yo) really did get his mojo back and went on to BS again. Both of them stayed with my friend until the end of their days.
 
I think you're right to give him a break from coloured poles and let him enjoy life- he sounds like a lovely chap! No chance of ulcers with the cribbing that travelling might be flaring up? I'd do fun stuff, fun rides/hunting for a while then perhaps try a group clinic away from home rather than comp so he isn't in the arena on his own and based on how that goes try easing him back in.
 
Have you scoped for ulcers? A horse that is a worrier/ anxious, drops behind the leg and crib bites would be enough for me to want to look at ulcers. Chances are it would mean a complete change in management if it comes back that he has them and could quite easily turn him in to a different horse after treatment.
 
Thank you all, he is on a calmer, started last week and I think he is less stressy, the cribbing(when in) has definitely reduced and he's let one of the others go out without him without having a melt down! He did camp and had a good time xc and then a hunter pace and jumped everything without a thought - it was nice to see him having fun! we are feeding for ulcers just in case (daughter is vet nurse) although he seems to enjoy travelling, judging by the way he marches up the ramp! Thank you madlady for the positive comments, he has been advertised but we would be very particular as to where he goes!
Think my daughter is sad because we have done five years of babies and projects and she made a 'head' decision to go for an established one rather than a OTTB who was a gem too!
I don't mind if he doesn't sell, I can ride him and I have fingers crossed he might come right... he is the nicest horse, I just wish he was a bit happier generally and liked sj. we have two ancient ones who take you to a fence, another older but very novicey DWB who LOVES jumping and the sj who can't cope!
 
Lots of good suggestions here already...

If you want to try something a bit outside the box, how about forgetting about ridden work and doing some free schooling and jumping with rewards? Lots of horses that are maybe a bit dead to the leg or unenthusiastic light up when they get the 'game' and then you can incorporate jumps into it too (small ones at first). I think you could potentially see a big change - especially if the reason he doesn't enjoy the job is that he worries. Then under saddle the key is to not just switch over entirely to jumping but keep a similar format to the free schooling first (with rider on board) and still reward him for jumping a few. Then gradually move to doing actual courses with a reward every now and then. We expect horses to jump for the sheer joy of it but after doing it his whole life, maybe he needs a little extra motivation.

I was working with a pony last summer (mid teens) who napped a lot out hacking and had apparently had really bad experiences jumping. Now he LOVES this game, doesn't nap (has even been really brave leading other horses past things he would have spun and run from before) and is back jumping and improving day by day. If anything, he now seems to enjoy it a little too much!

Here's how I go about free schooling: http://intheequinemind.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/sharper-plods-free-lunging.html
 
Try him on gastroguard to eliminate ulcers and do any other vet checks you think necessary. Get him out cubbing for the next two months; plenty of hacking in between. Take him to the gallops upside another competitive horse. Make life fun. If that fails, then further vet investigations are probably necessary or a change of purpose in life.

Good luck!
 
My old mare was, i didn't realise until we bought her & looked at her BS record & she was pushed as a 4 & 5 year old :(
She was amazing when she did jump, could clear 1.40s without blinking & she was only 15.2! Jumped intermediate xc with her eyes closed. Never had a stop cross country, could point her at anything & she would just go.
Showjumping I only ever jumped her at a show & sometimes she would go out & win the class & others she wouldn't walk over a pole in the warm up!! Those days we just packed back up & went home & didn't push her :)

She was half sister to classic moet & watching her go cross country makes me so emotional because she is literally the double character & jump wise !
I think when you have something like this you have appreciate them for what they are not worry about what they could have been if they hadn't been broken !
 
Many thanks for all the helpful words - Gunnerdog, I wish we were near anywhere to go cubbing/hunting - I think it would transform him. We will get to the beach and gallop though... he is a lovely horse - we were told he wouldn't let you trim his ears or tidy his tail amongst other stuff and he was letting me do his bridle path when he was laid in the sun yesterday. He is definitely improving - no cribbing when he first comes in but he is still doing it after food - I can live with that. He will now also stride out in front on a hack, whereas he previously only wanted to walk behind, preferably slowly and with a tiny, tight stride.
I can't see that we will compete him at all over winter(if he doesn't sell) but just try to get him to enjoy things a bit more. I'm certain we can do that but whether he ever enjoys sj again is a different question. I think he could be a great rc horse, specialising in dressage, or BD but fingers crossed he gets some passion for poles back!
 
So is he a Bavarian WB OP? Funnily the Bavarian WB I had was also soured when I got him, he was only 8 but although he loved jumping at home and in training - put him in the ring and he'd just refuse point blank to even start or he'd jump a few and then slam the breaks on and that was it. He just seemed to hate jumping at events (and I had someone else try to compete him for me in case it was me, she got chucked off...). It was gutting as he also had so much potential and jumped like a dream at other times. I battled for 3 years with him because he was such a sweet nice horse, sometimes he'd decide to jump and he'd win but 85% of the time he'd shut down. I then found out from someone that they'd knew the previous owners and had seen them beating the horse badly in the SJ ring early on in his ridden career pretty regularly :( So he'd started off with a dreadful experience, it ruined him for life. I ended up selling him to a hacking home where he was perfectly happy. Yours might not be the same, but just keep in mind that it can be a real uphill struggle with a soured horse, its hard to get their enthusiasm back. You could try taking yours XC for a while? He might find that far more fun which might then relay back to the SJ eventually? (mine did the same XC as he did in the SJ ring...)
 
He's a Belgian warmblood - looks more like a TB ( well he would if he was thinner!) but the description is spot on - he jumps in training (although looking a videos, he has a stressy face on!) jumped a couple of lovely clear rounds(all the ability in the world) round a course with no one there. Threw in towel at number 2 in a smaller course the following week, just ground to a halt, no forward momentum, ears forward but no lights on, iyswim. When he arrived his mouth & tongue were black and blue when we investigated the excess frothing and headshaking, Big fat wide tongue so I think he was ridden heavy handed in wrong bit (but I don't really know) we've sorted that and he is calm in his mouth if not totally consistent in taking the contact forward. Sigh, poor horse.
 
Only suggestions I can make are ,let him live out ,and take him hunting for a season. Hay not haylage if possible ,and only the best hay , minimal hard feed ,if the hay is good enough he wont need much . Little and often is the way to go here. All stress reducing stuff this, and if he has ulcers it will help him no end. Does your daughter suffer from competition nerves ? Possible transference to the horse? And a completely random question (but it isnt) .How does he load ?
 
Madlady not so mad! I agree completely. Get the pony steaming fit and take him to lots of different venues and locations but without any pressure, so no jumping until he really wants to do it, then only small jumps and a few of them. Something I tried here with great success was to make a small enclosure, say 50m x 25m, with a normal sized gateway (3m - 4m), then feed inside there every day. He's a pony and they like food. Start with a rail on the ground across the gate and raise it a few inches every day. I found mine were not only keen to hop in to get their food but hop in and out during the day to check whether there were any crumbs left. Not only will this help fitness but jumping becomes just much the same as walking from A to B. I am in the process of constructing a simple jumping lane and will be creating something similar, but with a sucession of jumps. No force -- but if they want the feed, they'll need to negotiate small jumps to get it! Will it improve confidence? I don't know, but I think it could be fun to try!
 
These replies are really interesting, thank you - there is no hunting where we live but I accept the principle totally! he is 16.1 so not really a pony though. I would say the calmer is kicking in a bit, he has stopped windsucking when he first comes in( although still does after food, which is ok) we are hacking out a good bit(no school) and he was marvellous last night, long relaxed stride, paying attention to everything but with a long relaxed neck (rather than ears fixed and rigid walk). We thought we might have a go at free jumping later, just giving him a full break from jumping at the minute -I love the idea of going over a pole for his feed, he is massively greedy so am sure would do this! Away to plan a way to make it work. I don't think daughter has competition nerves - she did a lot on ponies and has been around the shows a bit and started lots of babies recently- although the old owner was at last show! He loads well. I think we can get him right about life in general - he's already showing massive changes - but I really don't know about the jumping which was why she bought him. Lots of people have since told us that the old owner was less than truthful, but we know that now! Away to talk daughter into xc, which she hates but he seems to enjoy!!
 
What lucky boy to have found you - you sound so lovely trying to help him - but poor horse for having to have suffered at the hands of some pothunting imbecile. I have known soured SJers come good - it took time and patience. In both cases neither had a complete break from poles and jumping but just very low key, walking over them on way to turnout, random just jumps in field, trips to shows but no jumping, tiny XC, tiny clear rounds and just the one and lots of positive rewards. One pony refused to jump anything at home or away but became a champion WHP, the other had similar issues to yours in that she was clever enough to work out that she could avoid not jumping at shows and not get beaten. This one took longer to help but she did go and successfully compete but the key was that she never ever was pushed, in the beginning they just took her to jump a few fences in the warm up, loaded up and went home, then they only ever did 1 class and not the jump off. Her owners always made it positive and never ever rode with a stick or told her off for a mistake. The mare was a worrier but tried her heart out if she felt secure. Not a combination for every rider but her owners loved her dearly and knew she could jump and wanted to 'fix' her just because they could (and were lucky enough to have facilities and other horses) and they did do well. She grew old happily and I believe just hacks out happily with the mum, having taught daughter a lot about horses and riding!

Ohh and have just remembered another person who had a lovely eventing mare who completely went off the boil, got chucked out in the field for a year and forgotten more or less but then got 'lent' to a teenager who had lost her horse and just went straight back into lessons, clinics etc and within 6 months out competing successfully at BE100.

Good luck with your horse!
 
Thanks again, I really think we are making progress if very very slowly. he was ridden by another very competent lady on Sunday and looked a total donkey (NOT in a good way!) but went beautifully for my daughter. We have almost decided that he will stay and we'll plod away over winter and see where we go - we have put a single fence up in the field and he's popped it a couple of times when on way back from a hack, with great enthusiasm and really using his back end so there may be a glimmer of hope. He is an absolute gent with a sweet sense of humour and I don't think we can pass him on now.... shame on my daughter but she'll just have to do dressage! The lady who sold him to us is gaining a reputation but not being absolutely honest in her dealings so I am sure karma will get its revenge. Funnily enough we had discussed taking him to shows but no competing and xc which he seems ok with. Thank you for all your advice - it does make me feel that we are doing the right thing. I promise to put photos up if we ever get anywhere as he is very good looking!
 
OP you sound like you are doing and thinking of all the right things and this horse is very lucky to have found your family!

Just when I read the bit about his mouth (awful!) although I know you say you have sorted this and he seems settled in his mouth. Just thinking out the box. Would it be worth trying him in some sort of bit less bridle. I know he seems 'fine' but mentally he must remember the pain and heavy treatment in his mouth (amongst everything else) ... Just thinking of something that is completely different to break the cycle.

Just a tiny thought. Good luck. Pics a must!
 
I see others have suggested getting him scoped for ulcers. That would be my first move too! Then maybe just hack and do fun stuff for a month and see if he's happier. Try taking him to the gallops (if ulcers are ruled out)
 
I've revived this thread to give everyone another update on our little black horse! I did do a fairly positive update last year but he is going from strength to strength - what a super horse he is! As long as we remember he is only about 6, not his real 13. he is learning to make decisions for himself and gains in confidence every outing! He is jumping 1m like a good un - we aren't asking too much , just going slowly and making sure he enjoys it! he collects rosettes every time out and is getting BS double clears as well as Blair qualifiers for WH. He loads beautifully now, he can be left alone in the stable without dying of stress. he can be clipped, wormed, trimmed and injected without making a fuss....He does still crib but we live with it. I will try for a photo but I can't make it open! Argh.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/myfx5gh1schfv24/bertie.jpg?dl=0
 
I would say its also made my daughter a better, more thinking rider. she has had to unravel something which was in a fair old knot, give him the confidence to believe in himself and ride quietly but properly! He is very interesting because he doesn't have any mad objection to anything but if you are wrong he just stops whatever he is doing and stands still! (Wish I could train that in others!) I just contributed galloping him in stubble fields and hacking on a long rein. The previous owner has set herself up as a dressage rider and professional horse trainer, which makes me weep.
Judges that can ride love him - he is light, fluent and obedient with a wonderful flying change, flappers and kickers do not enjoy him.....
 
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