Any ideas what is going on here please?

Milliechaz

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Hi all - before I go any further I just want to clarify that I do have a physio booked for 13th April but in the meantime I would appreciate your thoughts please.

Horse has been with me for 12 months. Went for backing in October and was there for 8 weeks. Only backed for hacking nothing strenuous as still bum high and wanted to allow her to grow and mature for another 12 months before taking her in the arena. She was worked everyday but not strenuously whilst she was there. Only ever wore a headpiece (no browband or noseband) as she has always had tickly ears. At the end of December before she came home I had a saddle fitter out to template her for a new saddle. Template was pretty even on both sides. She came home and I borrowed the saddle she was backed in for 2 months as her new saddle was delayed. After being home half way round a hack she started headshaking, not continuous but sporadically. I had added a browband at this point so changed it for a bigger one to make sure that wasn't what was starting the issue. It didn't change and I thought maybe her forelock/mane was tickling her as she has a lot of floof so started plaiting her to remove that from the equation. It didn't stop it. I then purchased her an anatomical bridle which didn't make a difference and a poll pad and that too didn't make any difference. Then her new saddle arrived. Tried her in it on the 1st day and she wasn't keen on the girth (it was leather) so I swapped it for a memory foam one. She then started kicking her belly when the girth was done up even though I did it one hole at a time. Once the girth is on the 1st hole on each side she is fine with me then tightening it one by one until safe to get on. No issues at all when mounting or when tightening the girth once on. She then started really objecting to having her bridle taken off. She wouldn't let me go near her ears/poll to remove the headpiece and would shake her head violently and panic until i had finally managed to get it off.

She is only ridden once maybe twice a week and not for longer than an hour, only at a walk. All of this issues came on week by week. So i got the saddle fitter back out just to double check the fit and she is very happy with the fit but re templated her and noticed that she is developing more on one side behind the withers than the other. I then mounted for her to look at how she was going and rode her round the yard. It became apparent that the headshaking started when walking on the right rein, her head was still when walking on the left rein. Incidentally she is more developed on the offside based on the new template. Anyway I have a physio booked for 13th April as something somewhere has changed very slowly but is getting progressively worse. I wont now ride her until she is checked out however out of interest I may lead her out to see if the same happens without a saddle.

I would never have been aware that the headshaking starting on a specific rein as i am only doing straight lines when hacking. I am not aware of her hurting herself throughout any of this time frame although she does bomb around with her stable mate when turned out. I am hoping this will be something and nothing, maybe a pulled muscle or trapped nerve given that it has come on very quickly and cant really be contributed to one specific change. I am assuming it is being displayed as headshaking due to all of the nerves running over the poll. Once the bridle is taken off i can rub and ruffle her ears after 15 minutes of it being removed. Another observation was that when i initially started plaiting her to take the floof out of the equation she didnt like the first bit on mane behind her ears being pulled tort to plait.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to give you context. I think that is everything. Thanks in advace.
 

The Xmas Furry

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Don't vets need to sign off any physio/chiro visits before they happen anyway?

They (vet) need to agree with horse owner as to treatment, as vet may be required by the physio or chiro etc to prescribe meds, do follow up xrays scans etc etc :)

If any physio or chiro doesnt ask for your vets contact details before coming, then I'd question their credentials and not use them.
 

TPO

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Don't vets need to sign off any physio/chiro visits before they happen anyway?

Not any more iirc. Under the veterinary act 1966 a therapist needed veterinary permission to treat a horse but I'm sure that has changed recently.

I'll need to google because I just took the notification at face value and didn't pay much attention but I'm sure there is a change in the law. Regardless it's always good practise to involve the vet and have whatever therapist work in tandem with them (its takes a village)

Another vote for vet first in this case
 
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Hmmm I'm intrigued now because I had a vet suggest a chiro treatment for Diva back in 2018 and they had to sign it off beforehand iirc
 
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Milliechaz

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Thanks everyone. Teeth were done in October and wolf teeth out but were due to checked again in April when her jabs are due anyway.

The physio is the one refered by our vet practice so do work together as a norm.
 

TPO

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Hmmm I'm intrigued now because I had a vet suggest a chiro treatment for Diva back in 2018 and they had to sign it off beforehand iirc

I cant remember where I saw it posted but it was about a change meaning that vet permission wasnt needed. If I'm remembering correctly I don't think it's a good thing.

Despite the veterinary act there are lots of therapists who dont obtain vets permission before treating horses (any animal).

ETA screenshot. I can't find more details but this is similar to the original post that I saw

Screenshot_20210312-200232_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

be positive

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That is a little ambiguous, unless the treatment is part of the routine care I still think the majority of owners call in a therapist when the horse is 'injured' it may not have technically been injured but any poor performance, reluctance to work, stiffness, soreness or the myriad of other issues a therapist gets called in to deal with are usually caused by a form of injury and require a vet to be in the loop, most are more than happy to allow treatment without seeing the horse first but in many cases the vet should at least be involved to do a preliminary soundness check and be referred back to if the horse does not respond to treatment, I have heard of far too many therapists continuing to treat injured or lame horses which are not improving and for some the outcome has not been good:(
 
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vickie123

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We had a horse at my previous yard who showed similar behaviour. He was always worse when removing his bridle as opposed to putting it on. His wolf teeth had been removed several months before and he had developed nasty ulcers where the teeth had been removed which the vet discovered when they were trying to get to the bottom of the change in behaviour. He also got progressively worse when ridden, throwing his head around I guess because of the pressure which had built up. Once the ulcers had healed he was a different horse.
 

TPO

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That is a little ambiguous, unless the treatment is part of the routine care I still think the majority of owners call in a therapist when the horse is 'injured' it may not have technically been injured but any poor performance, reluctance to work, stiffness, soreness or the myriad of other issues a therapist gets called in to deal with are usually caused by a form of injury and require a vet to be in the loop, most are more than happy to allow treatment without seeing the horse first but in many cases the vet should at least be involved to do a preliminary soundness check and be referred back to if the horse does not respond to treatment, I have heard of far too many therapists continuing to treat injured or lame horses which are not improving and for some the outcome has not been good:(

100%.

There are plenty of therapists that treat without veterinary approval and who dont even assess the horse dynamically prior to working on them ?

Treating a lame horse is a contradiction to massage/physio/chiro etc unless the vet has assessed it and then given permission for treatment.

That's why owners need to take responsibility and always consult with their vet first. If someone doesn't, or didn't pre rule change, ask for veterinary permission and speak to the vet about an existing issue, if there is one, then owners should walk away. Same if someone starts treating the horse without a thorough static and dynamic assessment. With experience a good therapist can make observations very quickly so it doesnt have to be a long assessment to be thorough. I've lost count of the number of physios/massage/chiros that I've seen turn up to treat other livery's horses and not see the horse out of the stable and take the owners word regarding soundness ?

I hadn't given the change (if it is true) much consideration. It was on a fb page that I've not been able to find since as I follow a few physios and Masterson pages. You are correct @be positive that it does create a grey area because maintenance of a healthy horse is one thing but a treatment for a stiff or sore horse is something else.

I tried googling last night and couldn't find any clarity. Maybe @Gamebird could shed some light if she happens to be online and see this
 

Milliechaz

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We had a horse at my previous yard who showed similar behaviour. He was always worse when removing his bridle as opposed to putting it on. His wolf teeth had been removed several months before and he had developed nasty ulcers where the teeth had been removed which the vet discovered when they were trying to get to the bottom of the change in behaviour. He also got progressively worse when ridden, throwing his head around I guess because of the pressure which had built up. Once the ulcers had healed he was a different horse.
Thank you thats very interesting. Her teeth were due to be checked next month so ill just bring her vaccination forward a few weeks and do them sooner.
 
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