Any more ideas - jumping away from home.

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Switchthehorse

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Quick summary (actually not so quick):

10yo mare who has had a few years off with illness, injury - owned her for 7 years.

Never been very confident jumping - always 'over jumped' by miles.

Gradually jumping better and better at home, scope to burn, height no problem. Mental state still is a bit of a challenge - being a mare some days she loves it and is awesome.. other days you know within minutes she is going to be a nightmare, but never dangerous more just obnoxious, or nappy, or running on forehand or refusing. but 80% of the time now quite biddable.

Competing different kettle of fish. Under about 90cm its like she doesnt see the fences she is so busy looking around, and so spends whole time trundling up and then running off or stopping and then leaping. or just running out. Particularly fillers. Over 90cm and above she jumps a better shape and respects them more but still will always have one or two stops again at fillers.

Have regular lessons, go out most weekends, also try clear rounds school hire etc.

Instructors have all agreed telling off doesnt help, stick or anger just causes her to run backwards and have a meltdown. Has no impact on her going over jump. So general consensus is confidence... Despite a good whalloping on occasion within seconds its like she has NO idea she has done wrong, and will nuzzle for a mint and look all happy!? Whilst i either scream or cry or both (again).

Weirdly 2 weekends ago took her out and did 90 (eliminated fence 6), 90 HC eliminated fence 7, 95 eliminated fence 11.. and started the 100 but was eliminated!! but EVERY time she had to jump the same filler and EVERY time she stopped the first time but then jumped it, but then next round stopped and jumped.. so in total stopped at the same fence 4 times but jumped it 4 times!? WTF!?

In videos its clear that just before a fence she drops her head right down almost nose to fence to look at it, and then jumps with very rounded back with head in that position and leaps over, so looks like she is wary.. but to put this into context i have been taking her out on and off over 5 years now!!

As her head is so low (when she drops it down to look) she is on her forehand and if she then chooses to stop or run out you are already pulled forward and have no hope (she weighs over 700kg).

Blinkers have been suggested, as has market harborough for more control of head. NO suggestions to send her away please, she's a sensitive complicated mare and bootcamp isn't going to work (professional opinion not just my own).

However I am open to any other ideas and success stories!?

Saddles new, back checked, vets 100% fine etc.

Thanks in advance
 
Maybe try equifeast cool calm and collected... Either that or maybe try and find something she likes doing?
 
wench said:
Maybe try equifeast cool calm and collected... Either that or maybe try and find something she likes doing?
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Thats the funny thing, when she is jumping she seems to love it, smiles, ears forward, sometimes goes better if you challenge her with a difficult line or a bigger fence. Genuinely love this mare so wouldn't do it with her if I wasn't 100% confident she enjoyed it, again second opinions have confirmed my line of thinking as well. Its weird. But thank you for suggestion though!
 
Just from your first post, you attempted 4 classes? Personally I would start with one clear round and stick with that and work your way up. Possibly she is sour? - some of the horses that really seem to enjoy it, just don't but we read them wrong...they rush, we think they are loving it for example, when in fact they are scared and lack confidence.

I dont know the answer, but having had one like this that was totally inconsistent, I tried steadyup by feedmark which made for more consistent performance. I took a break from jumping and did dressage/hunting.

Asking a horse to do 4 classes on a day when it is already stopping is possibly a way to make it slightly more sour?...I would have personally left it at two attempts before taking neddy home to take it back out again another day doing a clear round and getting it all the way round...somewhere you have the time to without getting eliminated. If you keep getting eliminated neddy will know a stop or two can mean "lets get out the ring now"!! Assume vet has done a work up for any other pain associated issues?

Strange one and I do feel your pain!

Just out of interest, enter a 2ft or 2ft3 class and see what happens?? if she sails round you have your answer!!
 
Agree 4 classes was a little excessive but bearing in mind we only jumped 6 jumps then 7 etc its not like i was flogging her round at 100mph. I tend to try and school her round and thought as we were seemingly getting progressively better it was an interesting experiment to see if each time she got bolder... but the 4 stops at one jump but then jump it thing kind of challenges the confidence question in many ways.

I do a fair bit of stressage with her up to elementary. I don't compete every weekend, she has been out maybe 6 times in the last 3 months? I try to give her as varied as life as possible, i took her hunting once but she tried to kill us both so probably won't try that again! But she gets worked 5/6 times a week, jumped twice, schooled twice and hacked twice as a general rule, but hacking more in the summer as find circles rather uninspiring at times. i average one jump lesson a week and one every three weeks with a professional SJ (household name). We all agree her jumping in general has got a lot better and we all feel very optimistic when we go out... and then it all grinds to a halt again!!

I have the same issue whether its 2ft or 4ft - but with the smaller ones she doesnt seem to 'take them on' but instead dawdles up, sniffs and then leaps (or stops).. bigger fences she actually locks on more (and then often locks off!..)

I have done a lot of work on the flat on building her back end up and working on collection and getting her to 'sit' more so i can make her wait etc

She has literally had full medical recently and nowt wrong! Having owned her for 7 years i tend to know through instinct if she is 'not right'.. i am convinced if it was pain related she wouldnt jump at home? And yet she can soar a 1m25 course at the yard, but then get eliminated at fence 3 in a 90 competing!

Interesting longdog that you have the same problem - its good that i am not alone - no one else seems to have come across this before (that hasnt been resolved with a good beating!)
 
I had a mare like this and i am not saying this is the case with your mare but it is worth sharing my experience. She would jump at home and in lessons but go out and stop and be really difficult to ride in the ring the majority of the time. It turned out she was bilaterally lame in both front feet. Steroid injections fixed it for a while and she then jumped brilliantly at competitions but unfortunately it didn't last and as soon as the treatment wore off she stopped again but only at competitions. I had a lot of vet investigations with a number of people who all told me there was nothing wrong with her. I was also of the opinion that she would stop at home if there was pain, but i think sometimes they just cope better at home but when all the pain and competitive stress is combined they throw in the towel.

I don't want to frighten you though. You know your horse best.
 
Supanova said:
I had a mare like this and i am not saying this is the case with your mare but it is worth sharing my experience. She would jump at home and in lessons but go out and stop and be really difficult to ride in the ring the majority of the time. It turned out she was bilaterally lame in both front feet. Steroid injections fixed it for a while and she then jumped brilliantly at competitions but unfortunately it didn't last and as soon as the treatment wore off she stopped again but only at competitions. I had a lot of vet investigations with a number of people who all told me there was nothing wrong with her. I was also of the opinion that she would stop at home if there was pain, but i think sometimes they just cope better at home but when all the pain and competitive stress is combined they throw in the towel.

I don't want to frighten you though. You know your horse best.
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Eeek so sorry to hear about your experience

How did you discover there was something definitely wrong with her in the end when she had been given a clean bill of health? Did she display any other symptoms at all? Just wondering if i should look out for any other warning signs etc

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
 
No problem at all, i really hope its nothing like this with yours. My mare was also quite backward thinking and "idle" generally so there was more too it than just jumping. I just had a feeling in my gut that there was something not right so i kept going back and back to the vets until they eventually saw a mild lamenss on a hard circle which they nerve blocked. It was then obvoious she was also lame on the other leg.
 
How often are you jumping her at home? She might just be being overjumped (because you have an issue, its easy to put too much effort into it) and may actually be better if you do less at home. I very rarely jump any of mine at home, in fact once established I would only ever jump them at a once a month lesson and once a week / fortnight event. I found they never went stale and kept their enthusiasm. Might be worth a go? Maybe forget jumping totally for a couple of weeks and then take her out and see what she does? If she were mine I'd also stick her back into tiny classes, like 2ft so she can jump the jumps from a stand still (ie. I would never allow her to turn away from the jump / do a circle so she learns she must jump what is in front of her as getting away from it isnt an option), then I'd only move her up a level once she was 100% getting round with NO refusals at all.

Have to say I also had a warmblood who was dreadful when out. He never ever refused at home or in lessons but stick him in a SJ ring and 75% of the time he'd throw in the towel (the other 25% of the time he was amazing and would win which was why it was even more infuriating!). I dont know your ones history but I found out my one had been smacked and bullied a lot in the SJ ring as a youngster by his previous owner :( So no wonder he had absolutely no enthusiasm for it :( I ended up selling him to a hacking home where he was so much happier. I think some horses just aren't into certain disiplines, much like people I guess.
 
Often the answer is just to get out and about more and to do things which boost her confidence, rather than damage it. Might you be able to do schooling away from home and with a group? Like riding club or pony club? Perhaps also just go to a show and don't do anything. Let her look, have a trot about and bring her home. Then start low with easy fences building her confidence until she can trust you. Blinkers are banned in most competition so that is not a runner. Market Harbourghs are sometimes permitted in lower classes. But as she is sensitive and complicated strapping her down isn't likely to have any more impact that hitting or yelling at her. She sounds more unsure than naughty.
 
Tbh I think my first port of call would get a pro to ride her at home a couple of times, then at a comp, and see what happens then.
 
I have a slightly quirky welsh who on a good day would jump anything, on a bad one will find something he doesn't like the look of would jump everything at home, not necessarily in lessons elsewhere. For the most part I think I probably didn't ride him well enough and I abused his ability to help me out a bit too much. He has always been better if his jumping has been rationed and I decided that he could do dressage if he wouldn't jump - we had a few months break from it at one point :p. When I was competing him I wouldn't jump him at home at all which seemed to help. He still wouldn't start xc very well and also stopped with a pro, but not the second time she took him ;).

Mum has an anglo mare that seems to have missed out on the brave gene and they got into a bit of a downwards spiral although she was actually quite a talented jumper. She had a tendency to get a bit cocky at times and then make a mistake and scare herself. I think she would really have benefited from a pro/better rider regularly at a younger age. She loved my friend riding her as she would give her very precise instructions with regards to when to take off etc! But her confidence has definitely always been fragile and easily broken.

I don't know if that helps at all!
 
Hey :)

Do you do grids at home? They are great for making them think and keeping them quick on their feet. Don't need to be very high either!

What about free jumping her? I regularly set up a jump chute and with another persons help I send my mare through a grid. Always start low and one or two jumps then build :). Could give you a chance to send her over fillers and let her figure it all out.

I have a mare too. It's tricky to build up their confidence and letting them think it was their idea all along. Sorry, hard to explain. Just, mares! ��
 
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