Any one else's unshod/barefoot horses feeling their feet in this weather?

[MerrySherryRider]

Well the excessively wet ground has contributed towards a fairly bad case of thrush in my cob's unshod feet. I've never seen the condition of his frogs deteriorate so quickly and the only factor that has changed is the continual heavy rain saturating his feet and the ground.
However after a few days of being stabled to dry his feet, in hand walking on roads and the healing properties of honey active +30 (amazing stuff), he's recovered well.

So, to answer OP's original question, yes, one horse has been compromised by the wet ground, while the other is fine.

 

[cptrayes]

OP I really think there are too many barefoot tunneled vision members on here who say shoeing horses is not correct etc.

No-one on here has said any such thing.

Well the cavalry horses are shod so are the Queens.

At least one police force in the US have unshod horses - why are they wrong and the Queen right? Who is more open minded here?

I wonder how many ..... eventers would do if they were going on soft ground without the aid of shoes and studs

I did affiliated with 5 with no problems at all.

etc or horses going on the roads like carriage horses would fair if they were barefoot.

Pete Rameys wife has carriage horses. My big mw hunter does all his hunt conditioning on tarmac roads. Miles and miles of them. Tarmac is a fantastic surface for conditioning barefooters.

That is the trouble I see on here , some members are open minded realizing there are situations that arise when you need to go barefoot and when you need shoes. But a selected few who any time a member says they have trouble with their horses feet they say barefoot because they are so apposed to shoes.

I do not know anyone on this forum with that point of view. ALL of us support the use of shoes when the owner is unable to provide a particular horse with what it might need to stay barefoot. All of us accept that there is a small proportion of horse which, for whatever reason, cannot manage barefoot at all. And a larger proportion who need very careful management to achieve it.

What we do not accept is that a horse which has been sound without shoes for 6 years should have shoes put on as a first resort simply because it has been feeling the odd stone for 4 weeks, especially as it is sound and happy on tarmac and concrete.

Just who are the ones being closed minded here?

Well from the select few barefooters I have seen over the years, what they have done here for liveries etc and my horses they have either made the feet worst or not corrected it properly or the horses feet did not improve going barefoot . (some are going to blame feed or management her) So we had to go shoes to correct the horse's problem or the horse is happier with shoes than without. This had NOTHING to do with the diet.

I, on the other hand, have never seen a horse with the shoes taken off whose feet have not improved, sometimes dramatically, once in a life-saving fashion. Since I have seen so many, and personally done quite a few, I can only assume that the failures are not being managed in the same way as the successes of which I know.

I personally now have NO Faith in barefooters.

Again, who exactly is being closed minded here? Does it not interest you that Rockley Farm, run by a barefooter with no shoeing expertise, has now managed to return to work the vast majority of over 50 horses with foot lameness, most of which were still lame after a full gamut of medication and remedial shoeing? How closed minded is that, if so?

I really don't know why barefooters preach and preach to us to go barefoot

We don't. We answer questions posted by people. If you choose to interpret that as preaching that is your problem and not ours.

, where as farriers do not preach to us to have shoes

They do. I was told by two farriers that the first horse I had would never be able to work barefoot. He evented after 9 months with incredibly improved feet. A third farrier was prepared to see my navicular rehab horse put down because he could do no more for him.

Actually one of my farriers said both two of mine would do better barefoot the other fronts only.

Lucky you. I wish everyone could get hold of a farrier that good.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

No-one on here has said any such thing.

At least one police force in the US have unshod horses - why are they wrong and the Queen right? Who is more open minded here?

Pete Rameys wife has carriage horses. so what?? i said most are shod




I do not know anyone on this forum with that point of view. ALL of us support the use of shoes when the owner is unable to provide a particular horse with what it might need to stay barefoot. All of us accept that there is a small proportion of horse which, for whatever reason, cannot manage barefoot at all. What we do not accept is that a horse which has been sound without shoes for 6 years should have shoes put on as a first resort simply because it has been feeling the odd stone for 4 weeks, especially as it is sound and happy on tarmac and concrete.








I, on the other hand, have never seen a horse with the shoes taken off whose feet have not improved, sometimes dramatically, once in a life-saving fashion. Since I have seen so many, and personally done quite a few, I can only assume that the failures are not being managed in the same way as the successes of which I know.

So ??????? you haven seen doesnt mean there are not 1000 out there who have




Again, who exactly is being closed minded here? Does it not interest you that Rockley Farm, run by a barefooter with no shoeing expertise, has now managed to return to work the vast majority of over 50 horses with foot lameness, most of which were still lame after a full gamut of medication and remedial shoeing? How closed minded is that, if so?


I personally now have NO Faith in barefooters.

again, who exactly is being closed minded here? Does it not interest you that Rockley Farm, run by a barefooter with no shoeing expertise, has now managed to return to work the vast majority of over 50 horses with foot lameness, most of which were still lame after a full gamut of medication and remedial shoeing? How closed minded is that, if so?

No it does not interest me why would it ? its not close mindedness i have more important things to do than read about that

I am not closed minded, how can me explain that in my experiences of bare footers which have all been no good closed minded???

ITS FACT they have ALL done nothing for our horses . Maybe in your little world horses have improved but in my experiences they have not in mine therefore i trust a farrier over a barefooter.

you are full of quoting are you not??

how can me saying i have no faith in barefooters be close minded when all my experiences are justifiable bad. Its fact

I did not say barefoot is bad , just in MY experiences all the barefooters I have seen and I have witnessed did not improve the horse but the farrier did . If you choose to interpret that in another way that's up to you.


My two barefoot horses are in trust in a farrier who has done more for these two individuals horses in a few trims than the barefooters did in over a year including all their spectrum photos and talk . They talked the talk but did not walk the walk. Its base on fact in MY experience and my witnessing and liveries etc we have seen it iwth our eyes so its based on fact not close mind. I CHOOSE not to waste anymore money on a barefooter , that is my prerogative.

 

[hayinamanger]

I know very little about barefoot trimming, so please don't shout at me. I have a numpty question. My farrier trims my unshod horses, he uses a hoof knife to take off the surface of the sole and to trim the frog. A couple of them are tender on stoney ground for a week to 10 days afterwards. Does a barefoot trimmer touch the soles and frogs? Thanks.

 

[ester]

ECD, no generally they don't although different 'schools' do things a bit differently. Unless there are flaps of frog that are encouraging thrush which would be better removed. The theory being that they have built those structures up for a reason. It would be worth asking your farrier not to and see whether they then don't get the footiness you are seeing.

LVN, I am rather pleased that at times I didn't have anything more important to do than read about that.. it gave my lad an option other than retirement currently. my prior knowledge of barefoots are RS ponies in light work trimmed by the farrier and that's it, I had no RL knowledge of horses with no shoes in proper work.

 

[cptrayes]

I know very little about barefoot trimming, so please don't shout at me. I have a numpty question. My farrier trims my unshod horses, he uses a hoof knife to take off the surface of the sole and to trim the frog. A couple of them are tender on stoney ground for a week to 10 days afterwards. Does a barefoot trimmer touch the soles and frogs? Thanks.

I'm not going to take a shot at you I'm just going to say "listen to the horse", because they are telling you very clearly that what your farrier is doing is wrong.

 

[cptrayes]

I CHOOSE not to waste anymore money on a barefooter , that is my prerogative.

I don't care two hoots about what you do with your horses Leviathan. What puzzles me is why you are so determined to read advice given to OTHER PEOPLE as anyone posting on here telling YOU what to do.

Can I suggest that if you would like to stop feeling as if barefooters are trying to tell you how to manage your horses, that you stop reading threads where other people ask for advice in how to manage their barefoot horses and are given it?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Can you pleas explain what this is supposed to mean??

I have to say that I agree with CPTrayes when she describes shod horses not looking after their feet.

 

[ester]

shod horses have reduce propioception.. therefore if they stand on a stone they don't notice until they have stood on it long enough to cause damage. Hence 'they aren't very good at looking after their own feet'

Non shod horses have better propioception and would remove their foot quicker.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Can I suggest that if you would like to stop feeling as if barefooters are trying to tell you how to manage your horses, that you stop reading threads where other people ask for advice in how to manage their barefoot horses and are given it?

you can suggest it yes. but that wont change the fact that my barefoot DID tell me how to manage my horse. I am mearly going on my experience of 11 years of barefooters .
I am not saying anything about advice for other horses only whats happened to my yard friends- horses over the past 45 years .

I choose now to have a farrier trim my barefoot horses than pay £ 65 for a barefooter only to find the farrier did a better job. That is based on my horses improvement not dissing other peoples experiences with barefooters.

This is my opinion I trust my farriers thats all that matters my horses have better feet now than they have ever had. What you do with that INOMB

 

[quirky]

I know very little about barefoot trimming, so please don't shout at me. I have a numpty question. My farrier trims my unshod horses, he uses a hoof knife to take off the surface of the sole and to trim the frog. A couple of them are tender on stoney ground for a week to 10 days afterwards. Does a barefoot trimmer touch the soles and frogs? Thanks.

We have a barefoot bod who comes to the yard to trim. The one he does is usually sore/footy for about 3 weeks before she comes right.
Saying that though, one of the horses who is shod is always sore for a day or so after he's been shod.

Maybe it's just one of those things

 

[foxy1]

Does he twitch or get irritated if you squeeze the top of his neck just in front of the wither?

CPTrayes, can you tell me the significance of this?

 

[[59851]]

Not at all. Alf has never been shod, has white feet, is on no special diets and is fine.

 

[cptrayes]

We have a barefoot bod who comes to the yard to trim. The one he does is usually sore/footy for about 3 weeks before she comes right.
Saying that though, one of the horses who is shod is always sore for a day or so after he's been shod.

Maybe it's just one of those things

No horse should walk away from a trim less capable than it walked into it. Any trimmer that repeats a trim knowing that the horse is being made uncomfortable by the trim should be replaced by someone who knows what they are doing.

Why does anyone accept a horse being able to walk on stones before a trim and not after the trim and continue with a trimmer who causes the same problems next time?

There are good trimmers and farriers and bad trimmers and farriers. Both bad types lame horses and should be sacked.

 

[Oberon]

We have a barefoot bod who comes to the yard to trim. The one he does is usually sore/footy for about 3 weeks before she comes right.
Saying that though, one of the horses who is shod is always sore for a day or so after he's been shod.

Maybe it's just one of those things

It is possible for the best trimmers and farriers to make a mistake and make a horse sore post trim - especially with laminitics as they can be lamed by just a mm off in the wrong place.

So occasionally you can scratch it up to "wrong place, wrong time".

But doing it more than once is a cause for concern and unless the professional is prepared to learn and adapt for that individual horse - they need sacking

 

[Oberon]

Cross posted with CPT

 

[cptrayes]

Originally Posted by cptrayes View Post
Does he twitch or get irritated if you squeeze the top of his neck just in front of the wither?

CPTrayes, can you tell me the significance of this?

Sure

Insulin resistant horses can develop a patch of fat on the top of the neck in front of the wither which is often very sensitive to being squeezed or even touched.

According to the vet who treated my friend's massively IR mare, the presence of this bit of fat actually causes the pancreas to overproduce insulin. Current treatment is, literally, to starve the horse until that piece of fat is forced to be "eaten up" to keep the horse alive, which will then allow the pancreas to "reset" as it were, and behave normally.

If you have a reactive piece of neck in that area, then there is a strong possibility that you have an Insulin Resistant horse who produces far, far too much insulin when it eats carbohydrates. That often produces very weak feet with very thin soles, which can't be cured until the insulin is brought under control.

Hope that helps.

 

[siennamum]

I'm putting shoes on my boy on Thursday. He has become increasingly footy, and is wearing his toes, which concerns me. I too think his feet are suffering in all this wet weather.

 

[Oberon]

FWIW - if anyone wants my opinion

I think shoeing a horse to improve their comfort is excellent if that is the best thing for the horse. And the owners should be commended for putting their horse's need first.

I would beg all those that are shoeing though to please allow a break from shoes once a year for a few months - just like we used to 'back in the day'.

That way you get the best of both worlds .

 

[Pale Rider]

'Mad as a box of frogs, lol'

 

[siennamum]

FWIW - if anyone wants my opinion

I think shoeing a horse to improve their comfort is excellent if that is the best thing for the horse. And the owners should be commended for putting their horse's need first.

I would beg all those that are shoeing though to please allow a break from shoes once a year for a few months - just like we used to 'back in the day'.

That way you get the best of both worlds .

I do the opposite but with a similare mindset I think. generally fine unshod, workload increases will lead to shoeing for part of the year - Winter or Summer.

 

[foxy1]

Sure

Insulin resistant horses can develop a patch of fat on the top of the neck in front of the wither which is often very sensitive to being squeezed or even touched.

According to the vet who treated my friend's massively IR mare, the presence of this bit of fat actually causes the pancreas to overproduce insulin. Current treatment is, literally, to starve the horse until that piece of fat is forced to be "eaten up" to keep the horse alive, which will then allow the pancreas to "reset" as it were, and behave normally.

If you have a reactive piece of neck in that area, then there is a strong possibility that you have an Insulin Resistant horse who produces far, far too much insulin when it eats carbohydrates. That often produces very weak feet with very thin soles, which can't be cured until the insulin is brought under control.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. I thought my horse's rug had somehow made him sore there, despite his rugs being well fitting and never rubbing. I have suspected he is IR since he went very footy on frosty grass in the middle of winter. All makes sense.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have no interest in keeping the bun fight running but I simply don't understand why what the queens Calvary horses have on their feet has any bearing on OP's question .
I have seen this comment before on threads i don't get it . ( mind I am accused of having republican tendencies by my other half).

 

[thehorsephotographer]

I've just had front shoes fitted to my 4 year old mare for the first time on the farriers advice. He said he's never seen so many foot abscesses and problems as he has this year and blames the weather with hooves being softer as they are constantly wet.

I'm hoping to have her barefoot again either coming into winter if not sooner.

Where we are however we have to ride out onto tarmac with lots of chippings about before we can go anywhere (the field is right next to a wartime airfield and we have to ride down the old runway to get anywhere) and I think that has a bearing on things.

 

[Pale Rider]

Vive la Republique!

 

[Mince Pie]

Evening all!

First of all - Leviathan, with all due respect I have no interest in reviving the age old shod vs barefoot debate so please take it else where

Cptrayes - no reaction at all to squeezing bottom of neck/top of withers.

Took him out today and he was again very reluctant to walk on the stony ground - it's not a case of "ouchy, odd stone" it is like me walking across Brighton beach - short pottery steps. For whatever reason he is not coping with the ground at the new yard and, as he is SO genuine, I am reluctant to put him through this. Front shoes will be going on for 6-8 weeks whilst I play about with his supplements then we will try again, luckily my farrier is happy to come back out at short notice to re-shoe if necessary.

For anyone interested, this is the ground we are having problems with:

and this is what I mean by "sparse grazing":

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

If you suspect IR please get a vet to do a definitive test. Honest to dog. It was like the woman who told me she had the ulcer test. Run finger along belly. If they react you need ulcer meds. Excuse me, the herbal cure. Funny how when her associate's horse was diagnosed via scope with ulcers they used the real meds. Some horses are more reactive to others about certain things. A horse can be IR and not react and a horse can be not IR and react to the test.

Funny how we're ultra critical of a farrier doing certain tests for LGL and then offer up this test for IR.

Terri

 

[Goldenstar]

BBH I think thats what I would in your place you can enjoy riding him while its summer( that's a joke) and as you say take them off in a while it's interesting that you have changed yards perhaps with a breathing space you wil be able to figure out what's different.
I am giving mine ten days to settle his frogs I will then try boots all round if it's not workiing it's shoes for him I will have another go next April
We have a fab drying wind today fingers crossed its a change for the better.

 

[Pale Rider]

I don't think that was mean't as a definitive test for I R, just an indication, mind you, they are dead easy to spot, when you are aware of what to look for.

 

[Mince Pie]

If you suspect IR please get a vet to do a definitive test. Honest to dog. It was like the woman who told me she had the ulcer test. Run finger along belly. If they react you need ulcer meds. Excuse me, the herbal cure. Funny how when her associate's horse was diagnosed via scope with ulcers they used the real meds. Some horses are more reactive to others about certain things. A horse can be IR and not react and a horse can be not IR and react to the test.

Funny how we're ultra critical of a farrier doing certain tests for LGL and then offer up this test for IR.

Terri

I didn't at all, I just answered Cptrayes question I I think something is wrong then the vet is ALWAYS the first port of call...