Any one own a ‘sporty’ Shire horse??

[ImmyS]

Wasn’t really sure how to word the title. I window shop horses a lot and have seen a few adverts recently for full bred Shire horses as all rounders/riding club types which I’m sure some are probably capable of this, but my question would be about long term soundness of heavier horses doing such work? Do heavier breeds such as this stand up to all round tasks including jumping/ xc etc? Just a musing really!

An example of the types I have seen -

https://www.donedeal.ie/horses-for-sale/stunning-shire-horse-for-new-home/26294254

 

[stormox]

IMO horses for courses - Shires werent bred to race or jump (half breds are great though) in the same way you wouldnt ask a TB to pull a plough .

 

[smolmaus]

I was looking at that ad yesterday actually. He's certainly very eye-catching!

Not much of an answer really but my old riding school had a few fairly big shire crosses that were more than capable of regular RC type activities including the odd bit of xc. I don't think any of them were regularly competed though and certainly none of them were 18hh!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Do heavier breeds such as this stand up to all round tasks including jumping/ xc etc? Just a musing really!

IME, no.

Heavy, forward thinking, sensitive cob with the talent and the brain to go advanced dressage, but the wheels soon fell off. Lost him aged 8 after owning him 3 years.

 

[Chinchilla]

Excuse my ignorance but what is going on with his hind end please, why is it like that? He looks like he actually pulling into a collar/harness except he's not got one on? Is it just their natural movement, in which case wouldn't it be awfully hard on their legs under saddle?

 

[deb_l222]

I would love to see his passport because he doesn’t look anything like a full shire to me.

At 4 years old, I would be concerned at how much jumping he’s being asked to do. He’s a big horse, regardless of breeding and making him jump before he’s ready is setting him up to fail in the future.

His backend would worry me. It’s very weird. I would also be concerned with the price but I’m tight and would never pay £8500 for any horse. Not even a unicorn

 

[SBJT]

I have a Clydesdale / QH cross and while he’s an amazing all round - can jump do dressage and all sorts of other stuff, I’ve been dealing with a problem with his front feet that will turn into a full blown soundness issue one day. While he’s sound now his heels are compressing and at some point he will be completely unsound so it’s currently costing me a fortune in supplements, x rays to check progress, as well as special shoes and a change in board. Oh and dressage lessons for the first time to get him more on his hind end.

This is just to maintain him so we can keep him sound as long as possible. Because of what a super horse he is I’d do it all over again but with eyes wide open next time and some changes from lessons I’ve learned.

Not sure that helps but it’s my experience.

 

[Littlewills]

Excuse my ignorance but what is going on with his hind end please, why is it like that? He looks like he actually pulling into a collar/harness except he's not got one on? Is it just their natural movement, in which case wouldn't it be awfully hard on their legs under saddle?

Terrible conformation which sadly is very common in shires etc. It means they are incredibly weak behind, combine that with their size and its asking for trouble and that's before you start jumping them or asking them to sit and collect.

 

[planete]

When we were looking for a draught horse to pull timber we dismissed the available show type shire horses out of hand as they are mostly no longer the old fashioned deep bodied short legged draught horses of old and we were told their over long limbs predispose them to unsoundness. We bought an Ardennes mare instead. I cannot imagine asking them to do fast work would be much good for them either.

 

[Goldenstar]

That looks like a very sweet person but I would not touch him with a barge pole .
that’s as bad a hind end as I have ever seen .
I think there’s a price that the heavy horses pay for being expected to perform like sport horses and that’s their soundness .

 

[Wishfilly]

Excuse my ignorance but what is going on with his hind end please, why is it like that? He looks like he actually pulling into a collar/harness except he's not got one on? Is it just their natural movement, in which case wouldn't it be awfully hard on their legs under saddle?

I don't know the answer to this but that was my first thought too- he looks like he has no back end.

He seems awfully sweet but I'm another who wouldn't be interested at all, especially at that price!

 

[ImmyS]

When we were looking for a draught horse to pull timber we dismissed the available show type shire horses out of hand as they are mostly no longer the old fashioned deep bodied short legged draught horses of old and we were told their over long limbs predispose them to unsoundness. We bought an Ardennes mare instead. I cannot imagine asking them to do fast work would be much good for them either.

It does seem like they are breeding them lighter and taller with the conformation suffering. But I have seen quite a few adverts with these types, supposedly full shire, pictured jumping and doing fast work (hunting etc).

 

[mariew]

That's an odd bum! I'm not sure I have seen any like that before, but I have only seen them at shows or shire crosses. I think it's kind of common sense, shires will have 3/4 - 1 tonne to carry around, surely jumping would put a lot more stress on joints than would be healthy. They were built to pull, not jump. Happy to stand corrected however

 

[smolmaus]

He's only an hour from me, i could dig up 8k from somewhere and just let him pull 57kg of me round in a wagon with his tiny wee glutes? He might manage that!

He's such a sweet face I'd nearly be tempted.

 

[Snowfilly]

Argh the damage breeders and the society are doing to shires is terrible. They’re promoting their use as riding horses, and they’re breeding for a lighter, taller, flashier type.

Look at the back end on that, it couldn’t pull to save it’s life and it probably won’t be stay sound long enough to have a full ridden career.

A lot of the local old boys no longer register or show their 16.2 shires as they get stuck at the bottom of the line to an 18.2 riding type. But their horses will go and pull a plough or go logging.

I’m sure that horse is a lovely character and I hope he finds a good home, but he’s not a good shire and not a great horse.

(Full honesty, I had a 18.3 Clyde. He was very high withered but worked ploughing, harrowing and carting before I brought him. He was still too tall and leggy for his breed, as much as I loved the bones of him, and he was too heavy to be sporty.)

 

[AdorableAlice]

Get a half bred, they are more athletic..................... Joking aside, OP if you are thinking of buying Shire or Shire cross don't assume they are dopes on ropes, many are sharp. They are made into gentle giants not born. I doubt they will stay sound if put under pressure as jumping or competition horses. Hard ground is a real issue for mine, he also needs specialist shoeing and micro managed foot balance. Temperament wise he is tricky and needs an experienced confident rider.

The horse in the advert is not stunning, it is a clipped out, nicely turned out moose, all be it a sweet moose who will be seriously expensive to keep.

 

[hock]

I have 3 warmblood x shires and I would honestly walk over hot coals for another. I’ve backed all 3 of them and they couldn’t have been easier. They’re smart kind and move really well. Ones 14 and I’ve had him since 2 and he’s only needed the vet for Jabs and only lame once with an abscess. The other two just jabs also but they’re much younger. I am fastidious about my confirmation so although I will view any warmblood x shire I see advertised they need to be put together right.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

IME, no.

Heavy, forward thinking, sensitive cob with the talent and the brain to go advanced dressage, but the wheels soon fell off. Lost him aged 8 after owning him 3 years.

It's my experience too. Especially as the gene picks get smaller. Show bred Shire pts aged6, mystery illness(which I now believe to be Cushings telated). 11 yr old Clyedsale pts most probably rectal tumour. Also 16.3 heavily built grey IDx pts aged11
Wrstpalian Kaltblut made it to 23 but she was one who I would have liked to have forever. Her genepool isn't decreasing in te same way, though, afaik

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The horse in the picture is indeed stunning! Stunningly badly put together! It might help if the rider pulled himself together and didn't sit like sack of mashed spuds. He certainly isn't helping the horse in any of those pics

 

[Tagoat]

Crikey! is about the most polite comment I can think of.

 

[SEL]

Our YO used to breed them many years ago. She says they are being bred too tall now, are prone to suspensory issues, joint issues etc.

Her remaining one retired mid teens with coffin joint arthritis and various problems with his hindquarters (an odd locking stifle type action). Lovely personality and was never ever hard ridden, mainly pootled on gentle hacks.

 

[ImmyS]

Get a half bred, they are more athletic..................... Joking aside, OP if you are thinking of buying Shire or Shire cross don't assume they are dopes on ropes, many are sharp. They are made into gentle giants not born. I doubt they will stay sound if put under pressure as jumping or competition horses. Hard ground is a real issue for mine, he also needs specialist shoeing and micro managed foot balance. Temperament wise he is tricky and needs an experienced confident rider.

The horse in the advert is not stunning, it is a clipped out, nicely turned out moose, all be it a sweet moose who will be seriously expensive to keep.
View attachment 57594

I’m not looking to buy at all, although some shire and Clydesdale ax’s look very appealing! It was more I had noticed a bit of a trend in the market. I had seen 3 or 4 adverts of these types in the last couple of weeks where’s it’s not something I had previously seen before.

 

[ycbm]

I think it's because there are so many bigger riders now, both with the obesity crisis and with so many young people growing so tall.

People assume bigger means they can carry more weight, but it isn't as simple as that.

 

[Goldenstar]

That’s what’s missing in market now the half draught something lighter and or smaller crosses are much much rarer than they where fifty years ago .
shire /Tb or the three quarter bred version of that where the mare is one more outcross out .Even the trusty ID / TB cross is hard to find ( not my favourite cross in temperament department as if the get the difficult trait of the TB and the ID they can be a complete pain ) are hard to find .
These types of horses where the norm for horses for adults in my youth .

 

[atropa]

I agree with YCBM, riders are getting larger and they mistakenly believe that a heavy horse is the way forward.
I've never known a competing, sporty heavy. I hacked a small Clydesdale (17hh) for someone once, he was very nice to hack but the owner insisted on trying to school him for dressage which he clearly didn't enjoy, bucking around the school. Whether that was a pain thing I don't know, we lost touch.
I've also ridden 18.2hh of proper working Clyde out fast hacking on the beach but again these animals didn't compete, they did a mix of farm work and hacking with tourists, they were absolutely solid and fit but I couldn't imagine jumping one or fitting it in a dressage arena.
There's a Shire Tb cross on my yard that events but she very much takes after the TB side of her breeding in shape and size, I would have had her down as an ISH if I didn't know better.
The more I learn about conformation, the more I cringe these days seeing people post their giant 18.3 riding horses proudly on Facebook. I just don't think horses were built to stand up to the competitive riding horse task at that size.

 

[Goldenstar]

In the past the shire would not have taken much to develop like the Irish draught the Irish draught is a draft horse developed into an all round riding horse .
The best irish draughts are still the best weight weight carrying horses there are .
I would choose a well developed national hunt type TB over a Clydesdale to carry a man .
Whatever its type horses should not be carrying huge people until they are mature in their back development .

 

[Caol Ila]

My Shire-TB is 27 and still sound, for her age. Has what my vet calls "mild work related osteoarthritis" in her hocks, but was only diagnosed last year when my douchebag ex-farrier did such a terrible trim that it flared up for a couple days. It's very controlled now and not that noticeable when you have a competent farrier. I think most late-20s horses will have some osteoarthritis. However, she's got a lot of the TB in her looks, so she's not a very drafty horse, and she is only 16.1hh.

Anyway, the Shire in the ad above looks really weird. I would not touch that with a bargepole. I'm not sure it's full Shire, either.

My horse is less complicated than AdorableAlice's Ted but has opinions about things. Yard management and vibe has to suit her, or she fencewalks. That's probably her most challenging quirk. But she's pleasant and straightforward to ride.

First pic taken a couple weeks ago, second was earlier this summer (hence fly rug!).

 

[Mustard]

I've got a Shire/tb who takes very much after the shire for looks and size - he's 18hh and weighs about 850k. His movement however is much more like a TB. He has been retired for 10 years; he's about 21/22. He was never over worked, ridden only by my 5'4'', 9st daughter. He broke the end off his navicular bone, probably landing on a stone with all his weght, the vet thought. Against all the odds he came back into work, then was diagnosed with atrial fibrillatiion, which the heart specialst said could not be fixed because of his size, and partial collapse of the larynx - hence the retrement. All much more common in a very large horse, we were told, so I agree with those saying that horses are not meant to be so big!

 

[Auslander]

Alf is either Shire or Clydesdale x TB, and whilst he has been fantastic, his soundness has always been an issue. He retired from competition at 11 years old, and whilst he is still in work at 23, it has been an expensive struggle to keep him comfortable.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think the difficulty comes when these type of horses are expected to sit on their hind legs .
They are not designed for this they are designed to lean into a collar to be ‘In draught ‘
the ability to lift the whither and bear weight behind was unimportant to their historical purpose .
So doing for instance prelim and novice dressage should present little issues if the horse is developed well and sensitively with reference to his type but once the work demands sitting the issues start for many ,many Clydesdales are cow hocked it’s should not be surprising that they find the demands of ridden work hard .
These types also where bred to do most of their work in walk . they will have trotted a little but canter would not have been necessary .
The chosen mares where thrifty they would not breed from mares who needed a lot of food hence they tend to get fat in this world of plenty of food , they where expected to work slowly but using power for hours a day, then if they jump they strain themselves .
They are not really designed for what we want today .