Any saddlers in today? Or people who are good at fit. It's about adjustable saddles

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Jesstickle

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Saddler is booked for the start of July but as I am trying to keep the budget down I am toying with looking for a second hand adjustable saddle of some variety before hand to have fitted (obviously if it doesn't fit I'll just buy something else they bring out and sell it on again)

I have a 4yo who I expect to change shape a lot and they seemed to think the chances of them having a second hand adjustable would be pretty slim :( I refuse to buy a brand new one. None of them are what I would chose in a saddle if I was going to spend that much money so I'd rather keep the pennies to buy myself a lovely jumping saddle once she's grown up a bit.

So, I have a pretty bog standard TB horse. Short coupled but otherwise pretty normal. Mediumish withers and mediumish width. What do people think would be my best bet? She wouldn't want to be in anything more than a 17'' I don't suppose

As far as I know these are my options

Wintec
Thorowgood
Bates
Kent and Masters
Collegiate
GFS

Any more I've missed and what is a good one for TB types? Bates ones are all cair I think which I'm not sure I want. Have heard very mixed reviews. Any opinions on any of them?

This is her btw
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My tb is quite similar in shape to your girl (although much worse confo :p ) and I had Poppy out who fitted him with a second hand Saddle Company saddle, which is adjustable. He's so short backed though, that he couldn't have more than 17 inches. He's only just 4 and not quite up to weight yet so it will likely need readjusting soon. I think I paid about 300 quid for it, and its a lovely saddle.

Edited, my lad has a freaking huge shoulder, so the SC saddle was great on him as quite a straight cut through the shoulder.
 
Personally I like the collegiate saddles, I have one for my TB and it suits her well. It's also a lovely, comfy saddle and deep enough to keep me in the plate when she has a "speshul TB moment"!
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Thanks ladies :D

LLL, I decided it would be too cruel to drag Poppy all the way over here just for one horse so I've gone with someone local (recommended to me). I hope I haven't made the wrong decision :o

B_B_H look how sleeeeepy she is! :D
 
jesstickle said:
LLL, I decided it would be too cruel to drag Poppy all the way over here just for one horse so I've gone with someone local (recommended to me). I hope I haven't made the wrong decision :o
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I had forgotten you'd moved from Cambs area :p
Might still be worth going down the SC route though, if you do have a local fitter. Second hand SC saddles are worth their weight in gold for growing youngsters IMO, and always seem to hold their value better than other adjustables.
This is the saddle I got for my wonky donk

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I'm not so very far away but definitely not as close as I used to be! :(

Your boy looks very pretty from that photo. Lovely dapples!
 
jesstickle said:
I'm not so very far away but definitely not as close as I used to be! :(

Your boy looks very pretty from that photo. Lovely dapples!
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Notice I posted a photo cutting off both his front and back end? :p :p

This is him, he's been out of racing just under a year now, and in my ownership for all of 6 weeks, bless his wonky cotton socks :D
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I have a New Wintec ( a million times better than the old ones) for my TB and it works really well for her so much so that I'm thinking of selling her R&L dressage saddle which I previously thought she went well in. I previously had a Thorowgood which was awful and ended up stopping her cantering even after having two saddlers out.
 
I really like the thorowgood T6 saddles they are really comfy and kit really well. I used to have a tb which it was adjusted to fit then I had a welsh D that with a change of gullet and a bit of altering with the flocking fit really well.
 
Lady La La said:
Notice I posted a photo cutting off both his front and back end? :p :p
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Naww. Don't, the poor lad will get a complex! I think he's very nice. Nitty looks like a yack in that photo but I couldn't find any others of her stood up :p

I guess I'll just watch ebay and preloved and see what comes up and take a punt. I can always sell again.
 
I would not have another Wintec after the things I've heard about them. I'd try Thorowgood. I lost four horses in under seven years and each of them had to have a new (second hand but new to them) saddle and to part exchange my current one cost me and arm and a leg, as of course you never get the value off the saddle that you are selling. In one case I bought a Black Country saddle brand new costing £650 and 8 months later when my 6 year old broke his leg in the field and it didn't fit my new horse I lost £300 on it by part exchanging it with another one. You can't tell me that a saddle depreciates in 8 months by £300. Most saddle fitters are a waste of space and a rip off.

Like any professional you have to take what they are telling you as the truth otherwise there is no point in going to a professional. But some of the unscruplious ones do take advantage of this fact.
 
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I've got a Thorogood VSD for my TBx, she's medium width, and saddler likes them as they can change the gullet and can be re-flocked.
He said not to get a saddle where only the gullet can be changed, as this often means the saddle sits differently. I think (but may well be wrong) that the cair ones can't be altered?
 
I have a selection of horses that are similar shape to Nitty, 2 of them go in the same (shhhhhh, don't tell anybody) saddle - Euroriding Jade jump, 1 in a 20 year old stubben siegfried, 1 in a Bates Caprilli and 1 in an Ideal GP - don't know what model as had it off saddler second hand and didn't ask :o
The euroriding also goes on a 3rd horse with seemingly completely different shape and the siegfried on an IDxConnie the size of a small house :eek:

I think it is safe to say that I am not a saddle fitter's dream customer, lol :D
 
Hehe M. How norty! Mine would also share a saddle but unfortunately (as you know) he is a very long horse and she isn't! His is much too long for her. Which upsets me greatly as I absolutely love, love, love his saddle.

I have found a couple of Bates ones and they look to be nice enough little saddles (no where near my most adored and worshiped Frank Baines of course ) but I just don't know enough about the cair system. I've always been a bit sceptical tbh. I've always thought of sacks of air as being pretty solid. Can't imagine them being as comfy as stuffing but I've never had my hands on one so I don't really know that!
 
i have a bates close contact with cair on my tb , fits him and is extremly comfortable , for comps he has a bates innova dressage saddle and a bates event saddle , my warmblood has a bates with cair for hacking a innova for dressage and a lovely stubben for jumping which isnt adjustable so had a saddler fit it , the others i fitted and adjusted myself
 
i was suspicious of cair too but there is a difference between cair and flair. Flair is sacks of air with foam in. Cair is sacks of air AND flocking so they can have minor adjustments there. I'm sat with an ad for bates in a horse mag - they have an easy change gullet system. New ones have easy change riser system for altering the panels.
I've found bates to be very comfortable.
I also like my collegiate but not as much as my keiffer. Agree with you on frank baines :p
 
I have to admit, the bates caprilli I find just awful, I'm a SJer, so riding in a dressage saddle is not the most cherished activity, BUT there is riding in a dressage saddle and then there is riding in the bates caprilli :eek: Unfortunately the horse comes with it, it fits her and I'm being paid to ride her not to argue about my bottom's comfort. The horse is a touch cold backed and I am not sure it has anything to do with cair or not, but employing my own logic, I would hazard a guess that air pockets are not the most pleasant sort of panelling ;)

In my opinion, and you are welcome not to take any notice of it :) you can't go wrong with an elderly stubben for a couple of hundred quid of e-bay, if it fits then great, if it doesn't, well, you will still get your money back the same way :)
I would either try a siegfried or maybe a lancelot, as it has less of a banana shape.
 
applecart14 said:
In one case I bought a Black Country saddle brand new costing £650 and 8 months later when my 6 year old broke his leg in the field and it didn't fit my new horse I lost £300 on it by part exchanging it with another one. You can't tell me that a saddle depreciates in 8 months by £300.
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That exactly what happens to a new saddle. A new saddle is like a new car, it depreciates loads the minute you use it, up to half.
I bought a black country from my saddle fitter second hand in like new condition for £450 that retails at £950 new and my Kieffer cost me £600 and had only been sat in about 4 times and new would be twice that.

That's why I always try to buy secondhand leather saddles but you have to be lucky that they have something suitable when you're looking.

Jesstickle my tb is quite straight backed rather than curved but otherwise a typical tb and he fits a Kieffer really well. They have adjustable trees (though the older ones have to be sent to be adjusted) and they are also very light which is nice. Secondhand ones would hold their value.
 
M- I would rather die than buy a stubben. My friend is also a SJer and hers all give me blisters on my bum! She loves them but my arse really does not!! You've drawn about the same conclusion about Cair as me though. I just can't imagine it being that nice. I take your point about trying a normal, flocked saddle though and that is originally what I had planned on. Maybe I'll go back to that. I might even consider a Stubben just this once as it won't be for very long.

I didn't know Kieffers were adjustable. P'raps they'll have one when they come out. I'm not really a new saddle person. I've never had anything difficult enough to fit to warrant it and they lose value so badly. Where as all my second hand ones I've sold for about what I bought them for.
 
coss said:
i was suspicious of cair too but there is a difference between cair and flair. Flair is sacks of air with foam in. Cair is sacks of air AND flocking so they can have minor adjustments there
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Not true. Flair is pure air bags, which came signficantly altered with pumps. Cair is sealed foam bags (think crisp packet, filled with foam then sealed) and have no ability to adjust at all. The only thing you can do is add shims above the panels. Cair is fine if the saddle is an excellent fit, but if it's not quite right, the panels never 'bed' and spring back into the 'not quite right' shape every single stride. That makes them sore. Flair is mush much softer but has a similar effect, and a lot of movement in them, which some horses hate. I much prefer good quality flocking: it beds to a perfect shape then stays there!

I really think you need to try before you buy as they all fit slightly differently.

Saddle company are nice saddles but often squint ( of 5 SC saddles I've had, all 5 had squint panels and 3 had a twisted tree : I suspect it's to do with the softer materials they use), often too curved, sometimes widen overtime by themselves. And the panels come up really long. They're also a pain in the backside to adjust, until swapping a gullet over. When they fit the've brillaint, but they can be hard to make fit. They have the same tree a thorowgoods in them BTW.

The new Thorowgood saddles fit many horses well but often overflocked. A cob saddle can often fit better than a standard saddle (which has a fairly curved tree)

The old wintecs are horrid saddles but the new style wintecs (the one with the contoured knee blocks) are really nice saddles and sit well on many horses. Go for flocked as they can be adjusted, unlike cair (which you can only shim).

If possible I'd get my paws on a thorowgood cob, a thorowgood standard an a new wintec and see which suits best. Then buy second hand for half the price ;)
 
Just sold all my wintecs and replaced them with a Kieffer!

This is my girls profile
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Saddler remarked "she's going to be hard to fit" when he saw her, but the FL jumping fitted like a glove. When I asked about getting a dressage, he said whatever I get he will make fit!
 
jesstickle said:
M- I would rather die than buy a stubben. My friend is also a SJer and hers all give me blisters on my bum! She loves them but my arse really does not!! You've drawn about the same conclusion about Cair as me though. I just can't imagine it being that nice. I take your point about trying a normal, flocked saddle though and that is originally what I had planned on. Maybe I'll go back to that. I might even consider a Stubben just this once as it won't be for very long.

I didn't know Kieffers were adjustable. P'raps they'll have one when they come out. I'm not really a new saddle person. I've never had anything difficult enough to fit to warrant it and they lose value so badly. Where as all my second hand ones I've sold for about what I bought them for.
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Ah, in the case of plank stubben seat hatred, I would maybe suggest an Eric Thomas, or Kieffer. An older prestige would fit possibly too, if you can pick one up at reasonable price.
My euroriding is great, soft and comfy, as well as being a semiflex, but even the basic, rigid tree version will cost you over £500 second hand, otherwise I would recommend highly.
Go on, go for Stubben, they are an acquired taste :D
 
Honestly. The blisters her Stubbens give me are something to behold! :eek: And they really effing hurt as well! She is all long and skinny and I am short and fat. I think that is why she loves them and I hate them!!

Kieffers are getting a lot of thumbs up for TBs. I will have a hunt round for second hand ones which are in the right ball park size.

I could just buy her a shorter version of my saddle ( have I mentioned that I love it :p) but no guarantee it would fit her and they are quite hard to come buy in a 17'' second hand. I have just found the equivalent dressage saddle in BH size whilst looking though. Am going to have to sit on my hands now. BH does not need a dressage saddle, he isn't even in work!!!
 
May I just meekly make the point that just because a saddle's gullet headplate is adjustable, doesn't mean its going to fit. Too many other variables on the horse's back :o

Personally I'd go with something second hand which fits her (gorgeous self by the way! how is her leg?) and is cheap. You'll need the saddler back out regularly anyway until she has muscled up and stopped maturing, and that might involve either reflocking or an entirely new saddle. You might need to swap saddles a few times before she has finished, or she may be a complete madam and have a tantrum which ends up damaging the saddle - hence why I would use the cheapest one you can find which fits well to begin with. Mind you, new synthetics probably fit that description too.
 
Thorowgood really arnt that bad if your looking at that sort of thing, ridden in a few and wouldnt have known it was one until you looked at the button thing. Wintec on the other hand I hate and they always seem to squeak. Had one put on mine by the saddler when he came out and he just bucked his way round, guess he didnt like the cair.
 
I would opt for a thorowgood t6 TB adjustable personally - the t4 tb is far too deep for me and stirrup bars in not a particularly good place. Kent and Masters also the same shaped trees etc. (Same template basically)
Wintec and bates have same shaped tree, fit some but not really most. Cair is nasty, flair (flock + air) not too bad but would avoid really. Flocked is best for most.
Saddle company saddles actually have a 10 year guarantee on the trees as they are synthetic so very unlikely to twist, and if someone tells you the tree has twisted they are more than likely having you on/fleecing you. I have had several and the more expensive ones (bufallo/sienna) are better to ride in than the cheaper ones. Adjustable to a point, not fully. For a TB I wouldn't personally go for one of these.
 
I've always heard that Thorowgoods/Kent & Masters are good for TB's - Mines in a high wither K&M and I find it lovely to ride in.

I've always been told that Wintecs aren't good for 'Typical TB' shapes.
 
Naturally said:
May I just meekly make the point that just because a saddle's gullet headplate is adjustable, doesn't mean its going to fit. Too many other variables on the horse's back :o
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Don't worry Natch. I know that :)

I just hate the prices saddlers charge and want to find something which is a likely candidate to give myself a chance of not having to pay £600 for a horrible second hand thing which I will hate!! If it comes down to that, that's what will happen but I don't see too much risk in casting about on ebay for a likely candidate, just incase I can find something half way close that can be reflocked. I am very fussy and hate anything with blocks and you just don't get much of what I like on the van of saddle fitters sadly :(

O, and her maj is fine. The hock is permanently big but nothing like it was and she is sound as you like and taking to ridden work like a duck to water. She met her first crop sprayer yesterday. I had to hold my neck strap :D
 
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