Any thoughts on this skin lesion?

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Scot123

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Hi. After my horse shed the last of his winter coat, I noticed this about 5 or 6 weeks ago. About 6 or 7 cm across. Raised, darkened, bumpy and in the last few days slightly bleeding/crusty. Up to now I've just been keeping any eye on it, but I now have the vet booked in for the start of the week but wondering what people thought so that I can prepare for it... Thank you.

I'm really sorry, I can never remember how to upload photos, but it's in my Album - Jun 17 (or if you tell me how, I'll try uploading onto the post!). Thank you very much!!
 
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I would wonder if it was a sarcoid (occult) tbh.
 
Thank you for your replies - and for help with the photos. I must admit this was a worry of mine (I've had a horse previously with sarcoids, though looking quite different to this). As I say, I have a vet visit for next week so we'll see what happens. Just wanted to try and get a bit prepared beforehand as I was starting to worry it may be sarcoids. I will have my fingers crossed it isn't... Thanks again.
 
Yes I'll post once the vet's been. If it is a sarcoid it's really fast growing which is a worry. It wasn't there at end of last summer and vet did a thorough check at vaccination time about 10 weeks ago and didn't find anyrhing. Fingers crossed but am thinking it probably is.
 
Hi All. Well, very sad to say it looks like you were all right. Vet is pretty sure it's a sarcoid. Photos being sent off to Liverpool for their opinion, so another bit of a wait but I think it's quite obvious they'll concur. Vet said, presuming it is, that it'll then be up to me to choose what to do. Think I know what I'll do. But it's tricky. Oh what a pants day. xxx
 
sorry to hear that Scot, it's not often I like being wrong but this would definitely be one I'd rather it was some sort of giant mutant fly bite reaction instead.

See what liverpool say, not the same but we followed a protocol they gave us for Frank's willy and he's had no recurrence so they are good eggs.
 
Wow thats a friggin huuuuuuuge sarcoid if thats what it is. Best action with that is to keep flies 100% away, so im afraid the horse may need to have it covered.
 
Thank you so much. Yes, I'll wait to hear their advice and go from there. In meantime as you say, am throwing everything into keeping it covered up and flies away. I just don't get how it went from nothing to something so big - obviously not quite that fast, but winter coat has a lot to answer for...
 
You can keep it covered with some cotton fabric attached with rubber-based glue, like Copydex. It seems to grip the coat hair well and is easily removed. The cotton fabric will allow the skin to breathe and prevent further issues.
 
Actually the vet was wondering ringworm! But thought that in the few weeks since I'd noticed it, it would have spread beyond the one patch, so decided against that. But as I say, she's not 100% sure yet (though almost). Copydex - really?! I'm definitely willing to try that, wouldn't have thought of it - thanks!
 
My boy has pretty much the same sarcoid, not as big, but not far off it. The vets and I have been monitoring it and the past couple of weeks it has ulcerated, bled and grown considerably. At least an inch a week.
He is going in on the 12th July to have it lasered off and some immune therapy thing done. Sorry can't quite remember what the vet said. This is his second one and is excluded on his insurance. The cost is approximately £1500. Thank God for credit cards!!
The surgeon doing this one is Jeremy Kemp-Symonds who I believe has an excellent reputation.
Despite doing everything to keep it clean, dry and fly free it has continued to grow.
Fingers crossed this gets rid of it now. X
 
I am so sorry to hear what you/your horse are going through. This time I'm lucky as it's his first sarcoid so should be covered by the insurance, but I feel your pain on the cost (and thinking that could well be me in a years time!). May I ask if the first time it was also lasered? Although it wasn't something suggested by my vet, I've being doing a bit of reading on that as an option. Was the Liverpool cream an option for you? It's scary how quickly they can grow isn't it...
 
Scot123 said:
I am so sorry to hear what you/your horse are going through. This time I'm lucky as it's his first sarcoid so should be covered by the insurance, but I feel your pain on the cost (and thinking that could well be me in a years time!). May I ask if the first time it was also lasered? Although it wasn't something suggested by my vet, I've being doing a bit of reading on that as an option. Was the Liverpool cream an option for you? It's scary how quickly they can grow isn't it...
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Hi his first one was removed via liquid nitrogen which whilst effective at the time has reoccurred. This sarcoid is right beside where the first one was.
The sarcoid vet looked at all the photos and discounted Liverpool cream due to the higher risk of it returning. The laser has a 90% success rate and apparently healing etc is much quicker and easier. My vet said there isint much difference overall price wise with the cream and laser.
I can get some photos of it next week when it's done if you'd like to see what it actually looks like?
They are horrendous things. For me though I cannot keep the flies off it and they are making it much worse. Can't put him through that for the whole summer.
Good luck, let me know how you get on xx
 
I would go for lasering any day over the awful Liverpool Cream. I know it was revolutionary in its time, but its awful stuff and must be chronically painful for the horse. I cant believe it is still used as a treatment.
Jeremy Kemp-Symonds has lasered my horses sarcoids under GA and he did a fantastic job. The key to the effectiveness of lasering is largely due to the skill of the person handling the laser and JKS is a renowned expert in sarcoids and lasering.

The success rate with laser is almost 100% if done properly but of course you can't guarantee they wont pop up in other places. Sadly horses prone to them tend to have fresh ones over time. There is also good evidence that the use of acilivor cream 5% is effective in treating them - this cream is used after laser surgery but is also used to treat sarcoids if cost or other issues prevent surgery.

I would definitely speak to Jeremy. He travels all over the country and holds clinics at various equine hospitals and practices if you can't get to him. And its all he does now, although he is a highly qualified equine vet. I can't recommend him highly enough and you don't need a referral. Just call his offices and he will get back to you if he's not there.

Mine has just grown another one and I can't afford more surgery and have just spoken to Jeremy and we are starting the cream treatment and will take it from there.

Good luck, they are awful things.
 
KautoStar1 said:
The success rate with laser is almost 100% if done properly but of course you can't guarantee they wont pop up in other places. Sadly horses prone to them tend to have fresh ones over time. There is also good evidence that the use of acilivor cream 5% is effective in treating them - this cream is used after laser surgery but is also used to treat sarcoids if cost or other issues prevent surgery.
Good luck, they are awful things.
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Unfortunately I wouldn't say that. We have a pony on the yard who had extensive laser surgery for sarcoids (he had 42 removed), and 18 months later, he has more sarcoids in all of the old surgical sites. And yes, the margins were wide enough - the incisions went through to the adipose layer and looked absolutely horrific. You could have fit a small melon into the wound between his buttocks.
 
Casey76 said:
Unfortunately I wouldn't say that. We have a pony on the yard who had extensive laser surgery for sarcoids (he had 42 removed), and 18 months later, he has more sarcoids in all of the old surgical sites. And yes, the margins were wide enough - the incisions went through to the adipose layer and looked absolutely horrific. You could have fit a small melon into the wound between his buttocks.
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I suppose there are always exceptions and so disheartening for the owners and pony if they reoccur in the same place. Was the aclivior cream used as part of the after care treatment.

Mine too looked like a Swiss cheese and he only had 9 removed but they all healed remarkably quickly and cleanly. Aftercare is key
 
KautoStar1 said:
I suppose there are always exceptions and so disheartening for the owners and pony if they reoccur in the same place. Was the aclivior cream used as part of the after care treatment.

Mine too looked like a Swiss cheese and he only had 9 removed but they all healed remarkably quickly and cleanly. Aftercare is key
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Kautostar what aftercare did you follow? I know he will be coming home with antibiotics and pain relief, not sure about anything else. I also know it's been done as a standing sedation as he's super susceptible to sedatives etc but I'm worried about looking after it properly. His is under his armpit/on his chest
Did you have to stable afterwards for long? Did you use fly rugs/ sprays.
Mine are currently out 24/7 but I can stable if needed. No rugs and using deosect although looking at trying tritec as not finding the deosect much good
I know my vets will give me aftercare advice but as you've been through it I would appreciate your advice. Thank you.
 
I would definatly use lasering on that what a pain .
It's a shock when you first see the aftermath of the lasering .
If flys are an big issue polster sticky dressing can be a big help .if uncovered be strict about using the antiviral cream I have found that blue spray is as good as any thing you must not use any barrier type cream the vet has not advised as yoummust apply nothing that promotes cell division
Good luck and welcome to sarcoid club .
Flys are going to be the problem after the lasering I would stable but perhaps turn out when it dark and bring in in the dark if that's possible after the first few days.
They can swell a lot around the site so get a decent supply of Danilon.
Put fly papers in the stable and leave the cobwebs !
 
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missmatch said:
Kautostar what aftercare did you follow? I know he will be coming home with antibiotics and pain relief, not sure about anything else. I also know it's been done as a standing sedation as he's super susceptible to sedatives etc but I'm worried about looking after it properly. His is under his armpit/on his chest
Did you have to stable afterwards for long? Did you use fly rugs/ sprays.
Mine are currently out 24/7 but I can stable if needed. No rugs and using deosect although looking at trying tritec as not finding the deosect much good
I know my vets will give me aftercare advice but as you've been through it I would appreciate your advice. Thank you.
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Mine had two in his armpit area, one on his chest and a couple around the groin and one in his sheath that suddenly grew. It was that one that made me decide to treat him and as he was out cold anyway it makes sence to laser them all. The armpit ones took the longest to heal simply because they were in any area of skin that constantly moved.

As Goldenstar says the initial aftermath of lasering looks horrific but the wounds heal well as the skin is very neat around the wound site. Everything swells initially so anti inflams and pain killers needed for 2-3 days but it soon settles.

I bathed all the wounds with warm salty water twice a day for the first week/10 days and applied the aclivior cream I was given. And after that I applied the cream as often as possible until the wounds had healed up which was about 8 weeks maybe a little more on the armpit ones.

I couldn't rug him because of the position of the chest wound but he had a couple of hours out in a small paddock after 2 weeks box rest. I think it was week 6 before he was allowed some light hacking work and he didn't return to full work for about 5 months just because of the risk of opening up the wounds. As a very laid back horse he coped very well with it all although I could tell he was uncomfortable in the hours after the op because he refused a banana !!!

One thing I can also add is that he was a much brighter horse once they'd gone and this is quite commonly reported. Which makes sense if you consider that they are connected to the herpes virus so the body is constantly fighting a mild virus. Bit like us getting a cold sore when we are run down.

But horses prone to Sarcoids will always be prone and that's the risk of more growing in the future.
 
Thank you Goldenstar and Kautostar1. I've been out today and bought some mollichop Apple for his medicines. He's not usually allowed this so it should be good bribery. I hope. I've bought licks etc to keep him busy and tritec, the only thing I couldn't find was fly papers. Shall try other places for them.
I will definitely leave the cobwebs alone :-)
His is right near the crease of the leg onto the chest so it's going to be a pain I reckon for healing but my vets are fab so hoping they can give me excellent advice and potions. I can make him a small paddock in the field with the others so shall get that done tomorrow.
That's really interesting about your horse appearing brighter afterwards, I hope it does the same for my boy. Although I am very grateful he only has the one, your poor horse having so many.
They really are horrible nasty things and the flies... They love them. No matter how much cream I use (sudocrem as recommended by vet) they seem to zone in on it. Will be glad when it's gone. Thank you.
 
missmatch said:
Thank you Goldenstar and Kautostar1. I've been out today and bought some mollichop Apple for his medicines. He's not usually allowed this so it should be good bribery. I hope. I've bought licks etc to keep him busy and tritec, the only thing I couldn't find was fly papers. Shall try other places for them.
I will definitely leave the cobwebs alone :-)
His is right near the crease of the leg onto the chest so it's going to be a pain I reckon for healing but my vets are fab so hoping they can give me excellent advice and potions. I can make him a small paddock in the field with the others so shall get that done tomorrow.
That's really interesting about your horse appearing brighter afterwards, I hope it does the same for my boy. Although I am very grateful he only has the one, your poor horse having so many.
They really are horrible nasty things and the flies... They love them. No matter how much cream I use (sudocrem as recommended by vet) they seem to zone in on it. Will be glad when it's gone. Thank you.
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Ask your vet to prescribe the Aclivior cream as this should definitely help with the wound aftercare.
 
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