Any vets able to advise?

He shrieked when she corrected his pelvis rotation the first time, second time was a small howl and this week a yelp during the adjustment but he is quite growly as soon as she goes to touch him but more in an expecting it to hurt than actual pain, he hardly reacted to the vet examining him last week. He has x rays which showed nothing, vets and chiro say there is still soft tissue damage from the pelvis misalignment that they expect to take 3 more weeks minimum. Initially the 24 hour dose of anti inflammatories was only giving him relief for up to 12 hours, now it seems to last the full 24hours then over the next day the symptoms build again. He's not acting in pain as such just uncomfortable so he's improved a lot from 3 weeks ago just hate that I can't support his recovery with anti inflammatories due to his stomach issues. Waiting on vet to call to discuss alternative homeopathy options. It's also not great that taking him to the vet seems to make it worse as he won't lie down in the car so stumbles etc.
 
Also I know this thread reads like he's been miserable for 2 months, but honestly he has improved so much since the chiros first visit, he was shuffling his back feet before then but now takes full steps, steps through his turns instead of pivoting etc, gets up using his back legs instead of pulling himself up from the front end, hears the car and is straight up to meet me at the door, gets up for a walk when you pick up his lead etc, it's just he seems like he needs a daily dose of ant inflammatories (as do many older dogs with arthritis etc) and he can't have those due to tummy issues😢
 
so the vet says a pelvis misalignment?

I really don't mean to be mean and it is much easier for us not knowing the dog and being in your position. But looking objectively at what you've written, you have a large dog in pain and who can't be treated easily because even getting him to the vets is traumatic. I have a bias against chiropractors I admit, as they did my husbands back a lot of damage. Have you thought of acupuncture?
 
MotherOfChickens said:
so the vet says a pelvis misalignment?

I really don't mean to be mean and it is much easier for us not knowing the dog and being in your position. But looking objectively at what you've written, you have a large dog in pain and who can't be treated easily because even getting him to the vets is traumatic. I have a bias against chiropractors I admit, as they did my husbands back a lot of damage. Have you thought of acupuncture?
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The vets were initially somewhat like my gp when I hurt my back, they gave meds and said little and often gentle exercise, seeing the improvement since the chiro and how much his gait has changed for the better they seem to agree that was the problem, they say mri is still an option but given his improvements they don't think its worth it at the moment. I'm quite open to acupuncture although it didn't help me...
 
acupuncture didn't help me either but I am a big believer in acupressure being useful. there are various other modalities -emmett, bowen, canine touch that might help but to me it sounds like further diagnostics are necessary.
 
There's no nice way of saying this, but with a large weight-bearing dog, you have to think about the strain on the body in the longer term compared to a smaller, lighter dog like a JRT or a Collie.
All of the symptoms you describe would concern me greatly, particularly over this sort of time frame. I would definitely push for MRI if I could afford it and depending on how old he is. But even then you have to be realistic about treatment long term.
 
CorvusCorax said:
There's no nice way of saying this, but with a large weight-bearing dog, you have to think about the strain on the body in the longer term compared to a smaller, lighter dog like a JRT or a Collie.
All of the symptoms you describe would concern me greatly, particularly over this sort of time frame. I would definitely push for MRI if I could afford it and depending on how old he is. But even then you have to be realistic about treatment long term.
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I honestly get where you are coming from and might well feel the same if I didn't see the almost back to normal spells, the time frame is an issue due to the vets initially saying exercise him when I think he really needed full rest so that delayed the recovery, also not diagnosing the pelvis issues early enough meant he couldn't start to heal, then we've had over the top symptoms from side effects of the meds etc, having to stop the meds that helped, trialing different ones etc. I have seen that on a daily dose of anti inflammatories he is almost back to normal and not in pain, the vets and the chiro don't think the issue is one that needs a lifetime of pain meds but if that were the case I'm happy to have him on pain relief for the rest of his life as long as the level needed doesn't leave him pretty much sedated and not interested in life. There are many horses on 1 bute a day to keep them happy, many dogs on a daily dose of metacam to control their arthritis and many people on pain meds so they can lead a good life again, believe me if he wasn't interested in life, was getting worse not better or needed so much medication that he was almost sedated I would make the pts decision but at the moment I'm seeing a dog who has improved a lot in 3 weeks, is interested in life and going for a walk again, whose vets agree he is improving, we just need to find the meds he can tolerate to support him.
 
He appears almost normal and not in pain because the drugs are masking it. My understanding is that you administer the drugs and fully rest the dog until it recovers. The dog does not feel pain on meds, so if it self regulates exercise, the issue never resolves. Every time he exercises he is aggravating the issue and then when the drugs wear off, he feels it again. I don't know how better to describe it. It's masking things, not making them better.

Edited because it's really none of my business and I shouldn't get so invested, apologies, only you can do what you think is right.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
He appears almost normal and not in pain because the drugs are masking it. My understanding is that you administer the drugs and fully rest the dog until it recovers. The dog does not feel pain on meds, so if it self regulates exercise, the issue never resolves. Every time he exercises he is aggravating the issue and then when the drugs wear off, he feels it again. I don't know how better to describe it. It's masking things, not making them better.

Edited because it's really none of my business and I shouldn't get so invested, apologies, only you can do what you think is right.
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I'm not meaning to sound antagonistic here, and I fully get that you have my boys best interest at heart but do you think it's a problem for horses to be on a maintenance dose of bute too? I take a dose of naproxin most days for my back, if I don't exercise enough I actually need to take a second dose, I doubt I will ever be totally drug free but it doesn't stop me living my life and although sometimes there's a bit of discomfort and I need a top up I'm never really in pain, I'm pretty much seeing the same scenario in my dog over the past few weeks and the experts who don't stare at him every day overanalysing things like me all say he is progressing well and we just need to give it time and keep up the gentle exercise. He is stiff when he first gets up but if he moves with purpose (ie to get a treat, go for a walk etc) he improves in just a few steps if he is allowed to "bimble" around he looks weak.
 
Blazingsaddles said:
I still don’t understand ‘pelvis misalignment’. What does it mean?
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His pelvis had rotated so one side was more forward and tilted upwards, it caused his spine to curve to one side putting undue pressures on various other parts of his body, not sure how it happened but one theory is that it may have happened slowly from him adjusting his weight / gait to compensate for pain from a bulging disc in his back.
 
Blazingsaddles said:
I still don’t understand ‘pelvis misalignment’. What does it mean?
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I find it’s a term commonly used by chiropractors with horses as well, even though it is physically impossible for the pelvis on a 600kg horse to become ‘misaligned’. It basically means the muscles holding the pelvis in place aren’t doing their job properly in my experience, due to some other cause as the OP has suggested - and as GGD has correctly said, if you don’t solve the root cause you never solve the problem

Chiropractors can cause way more problems than they ever solve for horses IMO, I stopped using them and tended to use a qualified physio instead as I would use for myself. Results were consistently much better, so I’d always do the same for my dogs now (even though the rescue used a chiropractor for Marty!)
 
gunnergundog said:
In which case until you solve the root cause (disc??) you will only ever be putting temporary elastoplasts on the situation. A scan would be adviseable to see what you are actually dealing with. No vet/chiro can advise you without such definitive information.
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They say its a chicken and the egg thing in that the disc may have gone first causing uneven movement and the pelvis misalignment or he could have slipped and twisted his pelvis which put more pressure on his spine and did the disc.... In any case the treatment for a burst or bulging disc is anti inflammatories and gentle exercise and the treatment for a misalignment pelvis is a chiropractic adjustment, he's had both of these, I've been told 3 months recovery and that both vets and chiro are happy with his progress, he seems happy still tonight, was just a bit stiff when first getting up this morning which is what the ant inflammatories are meant to be addressing but he's had to come off them. He's met me at the door everytime I've come home today, been begging for scraps at dinner (which he never gets but God loves a tryer lol), is taking proper full steps and using his hind legs properly to get up and when turning, I'm just a bit neurotic and impatient.
 
Why hasn't the vet given him something to counteract the stomach problems? It is usual in people for Ranitidine to be given alongside pain meds to mitigate the effects on the digestive system. I had a vet give me some for a Rottweiler once. Just saying that he can't have the meds isn't good enough. Surely they could inject the pain killer/anti-inflams.
 
He's had a gut protector but it didn't work, they think his system needs a break, seeing how he's been the past few days I think he's doing well without them, if he starts seeming in pain then we'll go back and try a different approach but he seems to walk off the stiffness quite easily.
 
From what you've written Fankin, I would stop the chiro immediately and get a second veterinary opinion from a referral practice re the disk asap.

Out of interest, has your veterinarian authorised the chiro treatment? I would be amazed if so. The potential for damage to the spinal chord is immense. And yes, I do/have used chiro treatment on both myself and my various animals in the past where appropriate so not adverse to it at all.
 
Had final checkup at vets this morning, he had no pain response anywhere along his back, belly is finally back to normal again as of the weekend although he is probably staying on chappie for a while. He's getting up and down really easily now, constantly steps under and through his turns so vet is really pleased with him. He has physio set up for next week to help with the muscle wastage as that's what's causing the odd occasional wobble that he still has bur happily these wobbles don't seem to cause any pain, they happen when he does things like turn really tight and cock his leg to pee on the Bush and he doesn't have enough strength to keep balanced or enough sense to stop doing it lol. We are being optimistic that the back injury caused the muscle wastage not that the lack of muscle left him unsupported and caused the back injury but that's a thing that only time will tell, for now he is coming on in leaps and bounds and made so much progress this week so I'm over the moon.
 
Finally, just over 3 months later my boy is finally completely back to normal, so much so that he is now back to carrying his tail over his back 😁, no more wobbles or loss of balance or lack of co ordination in the last few weeks and can now do a 20 minute walk without resembling a marathon runner crossing the line at the end.
 
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