Any Wintec saddle experts out there?

Lippyx

Lippyx

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So, after a lesson on Toby on Friday, and my instructor riding him in the K&M saddle, we both agreed he doesn't like the saddle at all. I ended up having a lesson bareback, and he was a totally different horse!!

My question is, my new saddle fitter has said to go for a Wintec 2000 Pro (older style) either GP or Dressage. I would prefer a dressage saddle, so that's what I am looking for.

I have found a Wintec Bates dressage saddle, but is there a lot of difference between the 2000 Pro and the Bates Wintec?
 
FireFly29 said:
Bates is the leather version of Wintec.
It depends which model it is as there are a few different ones.
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I know, I am so confused!!! What ever happened to there being 3 types of saddles... dressage, GP or jumping!!!

The seller of the saddle I am looking at, says its a Bates Wintec. Can someone post pictures of the OLDER version of the 2000 Pro dressage saddle so I know what it is I am looking for, as there are so many!!!!

Why do I get the awkward shaped pony!! :)
 
I'm not an expert, but I think you need to get the seller to send you photos and clarify exactly what saddle they have, as a Wintec Bates could be anything!
The Wintec 2000 pro saddles I think are the synthetic ones with a suede type seat and knee rolls but not especially blocky.
I tried one a while ago and it was ok, didn't fit my horse though.
Have you tried Google images?
 
FireFly29 said:
I'm not an expert, but I think you need to get the seller to send you photos and clarify exactly what saddle they have, as a Wintec Bates could be anything!
The Wintec 2000 pro saddles I think are the synthetic ones with a suede type seat and knee rolls but not especially blocky.
I tried one a while ago and it was ok, didn't fit my horse though.
Have you tried Google images?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why my saddler has recommended them, as they aren't very bulky.
 
This one I have found:

13853632-420-255x340_zps6b4e9dc0.jpg


Seller says its a Bates version, but is synthetic? Is this similar to a 2000 Pro? When I Google Image 2000 Pro, saddles similar to this come up. I have contacted my saddle fitter, and waiting for him to get back to me, to see if this one will be OK.
 
I'm not a big fan but they can work on some horses, do read this though:

http://saddlefitter.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/changeable-gullets-details.html

I don't understand what on earth the fitter means by a Bates Wintec - they are two brands from the same company, so I have no idea what a non-Bates Wintec would be either! The photo does show a synthetic, all Wintecs are synthetic, all Bates are leather, as far as I know. I have no idea which model it is.
 
Lippyx said:
This one I have found:

13853632-420-255x340_zps6b4e9dc0.jpg


Seller says its a Bates version, but is synthetic? Is this similar to a 2000 Pro? When I Google Image 2000 Pro, saddles similar to this come up. I have contacted my saddle fitter, and waiting for him to get back to me, to see if this one will be OK.
Click to expand...

Wintec is the name for the synthetic versions of the equivalent model Bates leather saddles. ie Bates make & trade Wintec too. I use a Bates (leather) Isabelle Werth dressage saddle with the Wintec synthetic version for every day use. I find them very good. As a rule of thumb if it is synthetic then it's sold & branded as Wintec NOT Bates.
 
ester said:
your lad seems pretty flat backed to me and therefore not really of the usual wintec-fitting type?
Click to expand...

He does have more prominent withers than it looks. He is very much on the forehand at the moment, he is very built up at the front end, compared to the back, his back end isn't as "bulky". I think the new saddle fitter is thinking the wintecs have a lot less bulk at the front, meaning its less weight on his front end and also the saddle won't throw the rider forward like my K&M does at the moment. Hopefully this means it will help with balancing and gradually even him out a bit! Does that make sense?
 
sbloom said:
I'm not a big fan but they can work on some horses, do read this though:

http://saddlefitter.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/changeable-gullets-details.html

I don't understand what on earth the fitter means by a Bates Wintec - they are two brands from the same company, so I have no idea what a non-Bates Wintec would be either! The photo does show a synthetic, all Wintecs are synthetic, all Bates are leather, as far as I know. I have no idea which model it is.
Click to expand...

Now I am truly stumped! That blog really makes sense!! I would just get a saddle made to measure, but there is no point coz he'll change shape within a year!!
 
Bates wintec is their correct full name. Everyone just calls them wintecs.

That saddle shown is an older style wintec dressage standard 500. The GP and dressage have the same tree and panels, just different flaps. The CC jump saddle has a flatter tree and panels. The 2000 and the 500 are the same shape, just different material ( the 2000 have a synthetic suede seat). They also have a cob version of the 500 model but the panels and tree are very different and it's easy to spot (not least by the 4 girth straps)
There are a couple of less common models kicking about too like the Isabella Werth saddle.

The newer style wintec was release a couple of years ago and fit very differently. They're easy to spot by their shaped knee roll and pimpled underside to the panels.

The old style wintecs are a horrible fit on most horses. The tree is far too banana shaped when set at anything wider than a medium (and very few horses are that narrow : the wintec 'medium' is everyone else's 'narrow'). The balance is usually poor when fitted at the correcy width. And the panels at the back are so cambered (sloped) that the outside edge digs into most british flat backed horses. The saddle was designed for Australian TBs (I.e narrow, high withered and sloping loins) and cause so many back issues in our flat backed wide natives :(

The cob version is a better design and often a good fit for the average british riding horse (when fitted with one of the narrower gullets and therefore the tree doesnt curve as much) but still not enough for the very wide flat cob which it's marketed for. The panels do come up ridiculous long though!

The newer style is a much better design and fits many horses better than the old style but I've found the head and front channel to be very narrow and therefore pinch the top of the withers, so not great of wide spined horses.
 
Kallibear said:
Bates wintec is their correct full name. Everyone just calls them wintecs.

That saddle shown is an older style wintec dressage standard 500. The GP and dressage have the same tree and panels, just different flaps. The CC jump saddle has a flatter tree and panels. The 2000 and the 500 are the same shape, just different material ( the 2000 have a synthetic suede seat). They also have a cob version of the 500 model but the panels and tree are very different and it's easy to spot (not least by the 4 girth straps)
There are a couple of less common models kicking about too like the Isabella Werth saddle.

The newer style wintec was release a couple of years ago and fit very differently. They're easy to spot by their shaped knee roll and pimpled underside to the panels.

The old style wintecs are a horrible fit on most horses. The tree is far too banana shaped when set at anything wider than a medium (and very few horses are that narrow : the wintec 'medium' is everyone else's 'narrow'). The balance is usually poor when fitted at the correcy width. And the panels at the back are so cambered (sloped) that the outside edge digs into most british flat backed horses. The saddle was designed for Australian TBs (I.e narrow, high withered and sloping loins) and cause so many back issues in our flat backed wide natives :(

The cob version is a better design and often a good fit for the average british riding horse (when fitted with one of the narrower gullets and therefore the tree doesnt curve as much) but still not enough for the very wide flat cob which it's marketed for. The panels do come up ridiculous long though!

The newer style is a much better design and fits many horses better than the old style but I've found the head and front channel to be very narrow and therefore pinch the top of the withers, so not great of wide spined horses.
Click to expand...

Oh.... I just don't know what to do!! At this rate, I'm going to stick to bareback... Does BD specify you must use a saddle!! LOL!!
My instructor was surprised that the "new" saddle fitter recommended a Wintec, as normally she said he pulls a face when you mention them, so now I am even more confused!!!!
If I had a bottomless pit of money, then it wouldn't be such an issue, I'd just buy something special, but I don't. If I sell my original saddle (or I'm able to get the "old" saddle fitter to take it back for a refund) I will have about £400, £500 max!!

I'm actually dreaming about saddles now.... :(
 
I have the synthetic version of the Isabelle Werth and I love it. I will say though that they are very different to the other wintec dressage saddles. My mare can wear the IW, but can't wear any other wintec saddle.
 
Have you tried somewhere like Saddles Direct? I think you can buy from them and return it if it doesn't fit.
Think you can sell/px your saddle to them too but you will get a lot less than if you sell privately.
 
FireFly29 said:
Have you tried somewhere like Saddles Direct? I think you can buy from them and return it if it doesn't fit.
Think you can sell/px your saddle to them too but you will get a lot less than if you sell privately.
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Yep, tried there, and most of the saddle they have are the top end of the market sorts, and way out of my price range!!

This is the issue I had originally, not many saddle fitters supply saddles now, meaning I have to "guess" which saddle would be OK, and then get a fitter to fit it to my horse. I thought, if I got a fitter who supplied as well, I would be OK, but obviously not.
 
I'm gonna be in a similar situation as you soon OP as I've got to get my mare a new saddle and she's an odd shape so no idea what might fit her.
Trying to find a reputable saddler with a decent amount of suitable saddles to try without spending a fortune isn't easy!
Hope you manage to find something that fits you both.
:-)
 
You need someone with a few to try - even if new and then find one second hand - you can certainly get reasonable then for £400 odd- and it can be a false economy settling for something not right longer term.
 
FireFly29 said:
I'm gonna be in a similar situation as you soon OP as I've got to get my mare a new saddle and she's an odd shape so no idea what might fit her.
Trying to find a reputable saddler with a decent amount of suitable saddles to try without spending a fortune isn't easy!
Hope you manage to find something that fits you both.
:-)
Click to expand...

Good luck!!!! Thing that doesn't help is my boy is a part bred too, so its not like I can say he is a TB, so X will fit or he is a Welsh, so Y will fit!! Have a look on Saddles Direct, I contacted them today about a saddle they have, sent them a pic of my boy too, and asked them a few questions, and they have been very helpful so far!
 
I think it was them that Girlracer posted recently that she went to SD and they were really helpful, tried on loads but didn't have quite what was needed - but then they were able to look out for one and she got sorted.- would be good if you have somewhere near you can do similar.
 
Lippyx said:
Good luck!!!! Thing that doesn't help is my boy is a part bred too, so its not like I can say he is a TB, so X will fit or he is a Welsh, so Y will fit!! Have a look on Saddles Direct, I contacted them today about a saddle they have, sent them a pic of my boy too, and asked them a few questions, and they have been very helpful so far!
Click to expand...

Thanks! Will give them a try.
:-)
 
3 days isn't loads, and in fact the law says that if you purchase a saddle mail order you are covered by Distance Trading Laws which give you different protections/trial period etc. Worth checking out. We give 7 days trial and will correct any problems for free generally within the first month. BUT, after 3 months a saddle doesn't seem to fit then either the flocking has settled (very common especially with new saddles, the front drops) or the horse has changed shape. It's not possible for a saddle to stop working after three months and it to be the saddle/saddle fitter's fault.

Also to address your earlier point about made to measure, most people shouldn't have to go that route, and it's no more successful it seems than buying off the peg. I fit mainly off the peg, it means carrying a lot of stock, but it's a lot better for customers to buy the saddle they try. There are a LOT of options between made to measure and second hand synthetic :)
 
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I think it is because you can have multiple saddles for 3 days without purchasing them that the SD thing works different. And yes, ditto the lots of options!
 
sbloom said:
3 days isn't loads, and in fact the law says that if you purchase a saddle mail order you are covered by Distance Trading Laws which give you different protections/trial period etc. Worth checking out. We give 7 days trial and will correct any problems for free generally within the first month. BUT, after 3 months a saddle doesn't seem to fit then either the flocking has settled (very common especially with new saddles, the front drops) or the horse has changed shape. It's not possible for a saddle to stop working after three months and it to be the saddle/saddle fitter's fault.

Also to address your earlier point about made to measure, most people shouldn't have to go that route, and it's no more successful it seems than buying off the peg. I fit mainly off the peg, it means carrying a lot of stock, but it's a lot better for customers to buy the saddle they try. There are a LOT of options between made to measure and second hand synthetic :)
Click to expand...

This is what I can't understand. I don't blame my saddle fitter, and I appreciate that Toby may have changed shape, but it happened all so quickly, within a week of the saddle fitter checking the saddle, and saying all was ok, Toby went bridle lame. Another fitter said the K&M is too bulky for him and making everything down hill for him. The first fitter only tried that one saddle and didn't suggest any others... Should that not have been the case??
 
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