Anybody else against small pony jumping?

[Kokopelli]

So after a discussion in CR about some showjumpers lower leg position not being secure I think it is because the way they are brought into showjumping.

These kids are 12 and under jumping 1.20 tracks on ponies no bigger then 128 or 138! I am so against this as they are not good enough to jump this high at this age!

I don't know if you have ever seen them but they are very unbalanced and I have no idea how they stay on. This is also a reason so many people struggle when they move onto horses. Only 10 riders who competed ponies internationally have managed it on horses! I think this is saying something!

Most of them never have lessons as someone said in previous post they watched a lecture by a junior sjer called "Hot to get to HOYs without a single riding lesson"! and I know many who say "they are too good for pony club".

I am not against small pony classes but am against the height they jump!

How many other people are against these small pony classes? I know this doesn't speak for every young rider but it certainly is the majority!

 

[Katikins]

Surely the issue is with not enough lessons/guidance rather than the height the ponies jump. I've seen kids on little ponies jumping this kind of height and they looked fabulous together, I also know the same kids are still competing on horses now well into their 20s.

However, I do get the comment about the lower leg position, often its appalling but then often so are those competing horses. If horse and rider are happy and healthy what's the issue?

 

[AmyMay]

These kids are 12 and under jumping 1.20 tracks on ponies no bigger then 128 or 138! I am so against this as they are not good enough to jump this high at this age!

Clearly they are - or they'd be on the floor.

 

[Tinkerbee]

Utter numpties shouldn't be competing/jumping, no matter what height the pony and the height its jumping.

So if these "rubbish" riders were hauling about/slipping all over a 15.2hh it would be ok?

 

[nativetyponies]

The kids don't need to actually "ride" these ponies though do they as the ponies, the top ponies, literally do "the rounds" for years and years, for different families.

It's the ponies that are just push button automatons..the kids just sit there, so when they go on to Horses and actually NEED to ride, they cant!

 

[Kokopelli]

It sounds bad but they're not its just that their ponies are amazing will jump no matter what. I just think that they should do classes at about 1m and then as they get better progress to bigger heights just so that they can get a good secure seat.

And I think if some of them got lessons they would be brilliant its just a shame. Obviously it doesn't apply to all of them as I have seem so good riding from young children but I think the ones who need lessons should get them as I always find I'm cringing everytime they jump as it looks like they will fall off any second.

 

[ThePony]

Can't say it worries me overly. The ponies don't seem to be stuggling! There are lots of examples of less than brilliant riding getting you placed so I can't see that this is any better or worse than that. Many people are on the never ending journey of learning how to improve their riding, you can't just ban people of a certain percieved riding level from trying things or competing at a higher level!
(kind of harsh on young riders too, the ones I have seen at showing centres locally are no better or worse than the adults and tbh I have seen much worse examples of riding from the adults in affiliated jumping classes than I have from the children)

 

[Kokopelli]

The kids don't need to actually "ride" these ponies though do they as the ponies, the top ponies, literally do "the rounds" for years and years, for different families.

It's the ponies that are just push button automatons..the kids just sit there, so when they go on to Horses and actually NEED to ride, they cant!

Thats the problem right there! Thats why the lower levels of senior BS are full of horses galloping around like mad (not all of them, but a majority)

Its a shame cause all they need are some lessons and they would probably be fairly good as they have the money to buy some talented horses and GBR would be winning much more!

 

[JenHunt]

Thats the problem right there! Thats why the lower levels of senior BS are full of horses galloping around like mad (not all of them, but a majority)

Its a shame cause all they need are some lessons and they would probably be fairly good as they have the money to buy some talented horses and GBR would be winning much more!

ditto kokopelli!

 

[AmyMay]

The kids don't need to actually "ride" these ponies though do they as the ponies, the top ponies, literally do "the rounds" for years and years, for different families.

You still need to be able to ride. Just because a horse can jump a certain height, doesn't mean that the rider can.

 

[Kokopelli]

Like I said it isn't all of them (some of them look like they've been riding for ever!) but the ones who do make you cringe perhaps there should be a riding test to take before you compete at this level? Like when you do international you have to pass a test maybe this test should be made for people competing at the top level of 128s and 138s.

I'm only saying this for the riders and ponies safety as I have seen some nasty accidents which could have been prevented with better riding. It would be a shame to loose these classes but then it would be a shame for a 12 year old child to lose their life as they haven't been taught a balanced position.

 

[Orangehorse]

One coach was memorably recorded as saying that they don't make the mistake of teaching the children how to ride. Generally the ponies are "point and kick" types, but as for heights, for years the junior jumps at the top end have been enormous. I gawped at the size of the Junior Open at a local show recently. Yet the ponies hopped over as if it was nothing.

Wasn't there a comment in last year's H & H that at one junior coaching camp it seems that some of the children didn't even know how to tack up correctly?

 

[martlin]

QR
well, I haven't competed in ponies as a kid and my lower leg goes back at heights above 130-140 anyway, so I'm not sure one has anything to do with the other TBH.
When you think of the position of horse's body whilst taking off over big jumps, it's pretty much vertical, it would take some acrobatics to keep your lower leg on the girth and at the same time not be left behind with your upper body...

 

[Hugo]

All I have to say is MILLIE ALLEN!!!!!!
Thirteen years old, has gone straight from 128cm classes and won team gold and individual silver in the Children on Horses Europeans in Paris. It is unfair to label all children in this way.

 

[wilsha]

well if the pony was unhappy and not good enough it simply wouldnt jump

 

[Kokopelli]

One coach was memorably recorded as saying that they don't make the mistake of teaching the children how to ride. Generally the ponies are "point and kick" types, but as for heights, for years the junior jumps at the top end have been enormous. I gawped at the size of the Junior Open at a local show recently. Yet the ponies hopped over as if it was nothing.

Wasn't there a comment in last year's H & H that at one junior coaching camp it seems that some of the children didn't even know how to tack up correctly?

Your correct! Some of them don't know how to do anything for the horses.

I would have loved to have a point and kick pony at that age but whose going to pay 50k for a pony which the child will outgrow in a year or two?

Its a shame though because they could be really good little riders with some coaching as they're brave and have the money for the talented horses.

 

[AmyMay]

well, I haven't competed in ponies as a kid and my lower leg goes back at heights above 130-140 anyway, so I'm not sure one has anything to do with the other TBH.

As do so many riders. You've only got to watch top showjumping comps. The bigger the fence, the further back the leg ultimately ends up.

 

[happyhack]

You still need to be able to ride. Just because a horse can jump a certain height, doesn't mean that the rider can.

ditto this. I am riding a horse that can absolutely fly, but I am terrified of jumping and cause him to stack it going over 2ft.

 

[CrazyMare]

That is an awfully sweeping statement to make!!

Maybe you should go to the Pony European Championships at Bishop Burton College next week - there will be an awful lot of very good ponies, riders, pony breeders & pony trainers there.

As an aside - my jumping pony mare has more scope and ability that horses 2 or 3 hands taller than her. She regularly schools over 1.20m and has jumped up to 1.40m and measures 135cm.

 

[nativetyponies]

whose going to pay 50k for a pony which the child will outgrow in a year or two?

Plenty do.

 

[Kokopelli]

Martlin: As discussed the lower leg going back isn't a problem its when the rider throws their weight forward into the horses neck. Like you said its virtually impossible to maintain a "perfect position" over larger fences.

Hugo: Why do you think "children on horses" horses don't come under £150k? They are point and kick thats why they are worth som much, but I do think Millie Allen is one of the better riders as I said its not all young riders who are bad.

Wilsha: I'm not saying the ponies are unhappy they love it but its dangerous in some cases.

 

[ThePony]

What does it matter to us that people pay that for a pony! People pay what they would like/can afford for the horse/pony of their choice - it is a free world! Since when did we need 'pony price' and 'lesson' police!!!

 

[martlin]

So, what is the problem with pony jumping? I'm struggling here to see your point...
Is it that the ponies are so easy?
Is it that they are expensive?
That the kids can't tack up properly?

 

[Kokopelli]

That is an awfully sweeping statement to make!!

Maybe you should go to the Pony European Championships at Bishop Burton College next week - there will be an awful lot of very good ponies, riders, pony breeders & pony trainers there.

As an aside - my jumping pony mare has more scope and ability that horses 2 or 3 hands taller than her. She regularly schools over 1.20m and has jumped up to 1.40m and measures 135cm.

I'm not saying they are all bad and when they get onto 148s they definatly improve. Some of them are brilliant, Pippa Allen, Jessie Drea (now on horses) and George Whitaker are absoulutly amazing riders and I'm sure there is plenty more.

But how many ponies have you seen that make you cringe? And don't forget the ponies and riders at the Europeans have to pass a test before they compete. I'm not saying they haven't got scope I just think some riders should be getting training as it is obvious to distiguish the ones with no training to the ones without.

 

[Kokopelli]

So, what is the problem with pony jumping? I'm struggling here to see your point...
Is it that the ponies are so easy?
Is it that they are expensive?
That the kids can't tack up properly?

I just think they need more training before competing at high levels, it is easy to distiguish a rider with training to one who doesn't get any.

 

[CrazyMare]

So, what is the problem with pony jumping? I'm struggling here to see your point...
Is it that the ponies are so easy?
Is it that they are expensive?
That the kids can't tack up properly?

I wondered if it was a bit of 'I couldn't have that, so why should they get it, after all they can't ride'.

So what! I couldn't have a top pony, I just schooled and schooled and schooled.

Now as an adult I am breeding sports ponies - i.e. the ones I could never afford - if someone wants to give me £50k for one, thats awesome, and I'll take it!

 

[nativetyponies]

So, what is the problem with pony jumping? I'm struggling here to see your point...
Is it that the ponies are so easy?
Is it that they are expensive?
That the kids can't tack up properly?

I'm struggling too.

 

[Hugo]

Kokopelli
I think you are making a huge sweeping statement. Most of the children these days have trainers. And apart from anything else what has the cost of the pony/horse got to do with anything. Also there is the style and performance scheme for the under 12's now which in my opinion has improved the riding standards in ponies over recent years.

 

[Kokopelli]

I wondered if it was a bit of 'I couldn't have that, so why should they get it, after all they can't ride'.

So what! I couldn't have a top pony, I just schooled and schooled and schooled.

Now as an adult I am breeding sports ponies - i.e. the ones I could never afford - if someone wants to give me £50k for one, thats awesome, and I'll take it!

Its not that at all I would have loved a pony like that at that age (wouldn't anyone) I haven't posted this to be horrible

I just think its a shame that most of them do not get training as they could be bloody brilliant and then GBR could win even more medals!

I just thought I'd post it to get other peoples opinions on our "future stars" and everyone is right the ones at the top end with training are fantastic (a lot of you seem to have the impression I've lableled everyone as rubbish) what I'm saying is the less talented riders should have more training before they compete

But then this could be said for senior BS aswell as junior

 

[Kenzo]

I think it more down to rider attitude rather than age/ability and what tracks there jumping or how good the pony is, the majority of young riders (that are purely into show jumping) think differently at that age than they do when there a bit older, its all part of growing up, being more mature, so when they move onto horses there is still quite a bit of carelessness/slopping riding that needs mopping up. By the time your big and strong enough to move up to horses, you think more maturely about what your doing, focus more on the training rather than just purely on the winning.