Anybody else had issues with Intelligent Worming?

charlimouse

charlimouse

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I've had my yard of 8 horses on the Intelligent worming program since May. In July I got another horse so rang to add her onto the program. Worm egg count was duly sent out, sent it back, heard nothing. Eventually after lots of chasing up last week I finally had a phonecall from them to say they had got the results (couldn't tell me why it had taken 4 months to get the results :mad:!). Apparantly the horse has a very high worm egg count, so now is starting on a agressive worming program costing me nearly £200 :mad:!!!!!!! This was organised last Monday, with the promise that a Panacur 5 day guard would be being sent out next day delivery immediately, so I would have it asap. Gave them the benifit of the doubt when it didn't arrive on the Wedsnesday or thursday due to the weather, but when it didn't come on friday I gave them a call. Intelligent Worming then told me it had been sent out on the Thursday, which I was livid at as I had been told on Monday morning it was being dispatched immediatly, and gaurenteed for Wedsnesday:mad:. Woman on the phone couldn't tell me why it hadn't been sent out straight away, but promised me I would have it today.

Guess what, it didn't come today :mad:. This is now completly taking the pi$$, i'm going to have to chase them up again on Monday. I got all my wormer through from them for my other horses today for January, so it obviously isn't a problem with the delivery service. And I have had no issues using them for the other horses, so can't work out why the service is so poor now :confused:.

Another problem I have is with 9 horses on the program it is costing me a fortune :o(£16 per horse a year fee, then all wormer, egg counts etc on top). All of my original 8 horses had a 0 egg count, but are all being wormed what seems like every other week. When I joined the program they said it would reduce unneccessary chemicals being put in my horses, but i'm just putting in more. 2 of my horses had been wormed 4 times since September, and I got another one through for them today :eek:! They both have an egg count of 0, this just seems completly unnesasary!

I'm going to have a chat to them on Monday, but at the mo i'm feeling like i'm being taken for a complete ride! The people on the phone seem worse than useless, and don't seem to care that a horse under their program has had a high egg count for the past 4 months, yet they have done nothing about it :mad:! I pay so much money for peace of mind, and i'm just not getting it :(.

Rant over, anybody got any bright ideas on how to tackle them on Monday, I hate argueing with people, and am useless at standing up for myself :o.
 
So sorry to hear you're having such a rubbish experience with them.

I originally talked to Intelligent Worming as I wanted to do worm counts and reduce the amount of chemical wormers I gave to my boys. I found them very friendly and informative, and got my counts done and the results back very quickly. They gave me lots of advice and discussed in detail each of my horse's backgrounds and treatments.

I subsequently decided to organise my own worm counts (westgate) and wormers myself as you can do this directly with the labs, and therefore save myself some of the expense. However this was purely a financial decision rather than because of the service.

I would definitely complain to Intelligent Worming, as I think they would be truely disappointed to hear of your experiences. Hope you get it sorted.
 
Sadly was totally put off intelligent worming when at a demo I attend they referred to worms as a disease, worms are not a disease they are a parasite nothing like a disease and whilst I understood what they were trying to put across to people, it seemed to insult the intelligence of people who knew what they were talking about if their sales staff cant even give you true facts on what you are treating, how can you trust them to prescribe the right medication.

I send my worm counts to my vet, who gets the results then advises me what wormers to get, far more accurate method and not making money out of the wormers that are prescribed. Also have good worm counts through all horses here, and no wormers prescribed this year.
 
I'd just say how disappointed you are in their service which is costing you a lot of money and you have decided to try and go it on your own. You could get the same service from your vet surely. I think the 2 wormers since september could be tapeworm and then a subsequent one for bots? (I am going from memory here, but I think you "do" Bots after the first frosts?)

There's all sorts of opinions on this but... my understanding is

Panacur 5 day equine guard is next to useless - there is a lot of resistance to it.
Egg counts only tell you about red worm infestations
Tapeworms can only be detected by a blood test, so many people will routinely worm (for tape and whatever else the wormer does) twice a year anyway and then just worm if necessary the other times dependent on what the egg count comes back with.

Poo picking would also help to break the worm cycle (but I expect you know that already)
 
It's been 4 wormers since September, not 2! It seems somewhat excessive. My vet recommended intelligent worming to me, and with all the horses it seemed a sensible option. I don't really want to jack it in now as I have already paid all the fees for the year!

Eta- all fields are poo picked daily
 
charlimouse said:
It's been 4 wormers since September, not 2! It seems somewhat excessive. My vet recommended intelligent worming to me, and with all the horses it seemed a sensible option. I don't really want to jack it in now as I have already paid all the fees for the year!
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And I'll bet their wormers aren't cheap!!

I would write to them - setting out the areas of dis-satisfaction - and ask for a reply in writing! To my mind, they have failed you in several key areas and you would be entitled to cancel your contract and demand a refund of fees already paid!
 
JumpingJack1 said:
£200 to treat the worms? I would be questioning that, sounds like a p1ss take. Vet wouldnt cost that much
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Have to agree, I looked into it myself and decided it was a lot cheaper to do it myself (worm count and buy the wormers that is) especially when you have so many. A money making plan by them I think, the annual fee alone will buy you a wormer or a count and part way to a wormer.
 
Not had any issues with this company, but then, never having used them I wouldn't have.

However, on the subject of worming horses, I feel that several important considerations fail to be addressed when dealing with this topic.

There is a temptation to erradicate all of the parasitic burdens carried by the horse in the modern school of horse management. Whether this is the correct approach or not is debateable. The wild horse would carry a low level of parasitic infestation, which it would need to and be able to cope with. Not denying that on occasion a wild horse may be brought down by a catasrophic worm infestation.

In its natural state the horse would not be subjected to grazing in areas of high infestation, the modern horse is, therefore, in effect grazing in an equine toilet due to severely restricted availability of fresh areas to browse, which of course, needs to be managed. The use of chemical wormers is seen as the simple and most effective management tool in controling the worm burden carried by the horse, in these circumstances.

It is now less of a consideration to brake the life cycle of many parasites by the use of mixed grazing with sheep for example, in horse paddocks. Oft cited, is the fact that sheep may infect the horse with liver fluke. This I feel is an exaggerated risk as fluke, where it exists needs the presence of a specific snail, which if present, poses an equal risk to horses as well as sheep. Therefore, wet land is more of a risk in this respect, and cannot negate the beneficial effect of mixed grazing, with regard to lowering the potential worm burden in horse paddocks.

The fact that manufacturers of chemical wormers, produced for the equine industry, in my opinion, have made an effort to maximise the use of the product over actual necessity. Where worming programmes are such that the too frequent administration of the product is recommended.

Where possible rotational grazing regimes, mixed grazing and the limited use of broad spectrum wormers would be ideal, rather than a fixed adherence to a manufacturers programme. I am always mindful that chemical wormers are powerful poisons and little if any account is taken as to the long term damage to the horse in the quest for a negligible worm burden. In agricultural livestock, where chemical worming programmes are followed, these animals are often slaughtered long before any dicernible problems become apparent.

It should always be remembered that most commercial companies have no moral cbligation other than making a profit. Individuals within the company, may well on a local level, believe that they are working in the 'customers' best interest. It is, however, the duty of the customer to make a considered and informed judgement on the amount of the product they are prepared to purchase and administer.
 
I'm not going to renew my IW when it's next due. I've been completely unimpressed with the service. It's expensive and for the first time EVER my horse has had a HIGH worm count returned this year. Mind you, it took 7 weeks to get the result. And only after I'd had to chase for it. IW blamed the lab for the persistent delays in results this year. Not my problem frankly!

All I know is that it's been an expensive year with IW, and results have been very tardy, egg counts too high, sample kits not received and I won't be using them again nor recommending them to anyone.

A good idea in principle.... but that's all.
 
£200 for worming treatment! i agree, i think you should look into that more.
also agree panacur 5 day is NOT very affective for heavy worm burden and has high resistance. i use stronged p (maybe not spelt right) in autumn to treat red worm and tape worm. then i do another egg count 2 weeks later to see how effective it was.
my vets charge me £8.50 for an egg count an i get the results within 3 days and he also gives me a recommendation of what to give them (wormer wise) he is neutral, where as intelligent worming obviously promote there own wormer stock.
i bought a filly about 2 and a half months ago and she was riddled with worms i think over all worming of her cost me about £65 - £80 in total and he last egg count came back very very low. and she is now on the same routine of egg count and maybe maybe not worming. vets will tell you straight and not get you to buy more than you need.
as for the taking the pi$$ delivering i would ring them up again and tell them you want to make a compliant, be calm but firm and tell them what you are complaining about and that you are dissatisfied with the service x
 
Hi, I'm really sorry that you've experienced problems with IW but glad that you posted here because I was just thinking of signing up with them and have now decided that I wont!!! My freind & I poo pick everyday in summer and weekly in winter - too dark after work and not enough time before!

I'm just going to get egg counts done instead and worm from there, as and when.

Sadly no access to sheep :(

Hope everything sorts itself out tho and thanks everybody for the 'heads up' on IW

x
 
i dont use IW but several people at my yard do. having done my own research a 'field sales person' came out and gave a talk.

after listening to her making claims that i knew and could prove were untrue and then try and wriggle her way out of answering questions which she did not want to answer, there was no way my horses were going on the programme.

the horse in the stable next to me who is on IW is constantly being given wormers. mine in the last year have had 4 worm counts done (all came back fine) and will have had 2 wormers, one for tape and bots and the other for encysted red.

once i found out the company sold you the wormers direct there was no way i would go with them........ i like to get the wormers myself, for the best price without the risk of them being perscribed wormers unnecessarily.

having seen lots of owners without a clue about worming join this system i suppose its better than nothing but for someone who has an idea what they are doing, i feel i am better off on my own without the extortonate fees .

rant over
 
I wouldn't be too impressed if it took that long to get the results through, and worrying when it turned out to be a horse that had a high count. One friend at yard started with IW but gave up quite swiftly though not sure of the reasons why.

I'm with a different company for worm counts and for the 3 counts I have had this year, I post them off and I've got email results back within 2 days...sometimes by the next day, ie, they must receive it the next day and check the sample immediately. They also answer any questions I have promptly too and it ties in with what current veterinary/worming thoughts are on the best way forward now. Like others have said £200 seems a very high amount...
 
Could someone please tell me what effect wormers have on horses toungues - ? my big lad is a complete wimp - he must be able to smell the wormer before its even out of the packet - yesteday we had a min and a half of "not swollowing" before i could finally lift his head up high enough and tickle his throat - hes 17hh - so not an easy task, before i thought he had swolled it, i then went to issue the 2nd "half" wormer and he still managed to spit a load of the 1st one back out - good job i had two full wormers.

As to IW - i first had a run in with them 3 years ago - i sent Gingerwitch's sample off - after chasing for over 3 weeks i got a "list" of samples that were supposidly tested on the same day as hers and was told "look all the tests on this day are clear" - not a single referance to Gingerwitch or myself.

I have gone down the sample sent to vet, buy wormers from wormers direct - i ordered 3 equest paramox at 9am on Friday - they arrived with me at 10am on Saturday - lovelly chap - loads of advice if you want it and not pushy.
 
Sorry me again - but i have noticed recently many folks are not worming to body weight... and this is a pretty pointless waste of money - i am also horrified at how many folks just give whats in the wormer regardless for what bodyweight it is for - also each wormer seams to have a different body weight ie some up to 500kg, and some upto 700kgs - so please look at what you are buying and dont try and skimp on the correct doseage and also dont overdose your skinny little 12.2
 
ding-dong-merrily said:
Sorry me again - but i have noticed recently many folks are not worming to body weight... and this is a pretty pointless waste of money - i am also horrified at how many folks just give whats in the wormer regardless for what bodyweight it is for - also each wormer seams to have a different body weight ie some up to 500kg, and some upto 700kgs - so please look at what you are buying and dont try and skimp on the correct doseage and also dont overdose your skinny little 12.2
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Arghhhh! This is a sure fire way to build up worm resistance when underdosed!:(
 
santaboooogypie said:
also agree panacur 5 day is NOT very affective for heavy worm burden and has high resistance.
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That's a good reason to use it with a horse with a heavy worm burden!;)

If you use an EFFECTIVE wormer on a horse with a lot of worms you can cause colic - or even a 'toxic shock' problem. You use Panacur 5 day to reduce the worm burden gently - then 3-4 weeks later use something potent to complete the job.
 
Agree with Janet George panacur 5 day course is much safer for horses with a high and imo unknown worming history as a first line of attack.
 
JanetGeorge said:
That's a good reason to use it with a horse with a heavy worm burden!;)

If you use an EFFECTIVE wormer on a horse with a lot of worms you can cause colic - or even a 'toxic shock' problem. You use Panacur 5 day to reduce the worm burden gently - then 3-4 weeks later use something potent to complete the job.
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Couldn't agree more. I saw one of those rescue programmes a few years ago, and a foal was given a strong wormer as it was infested, having been neglected.

Sadly, as they say, the foal died the next day, through an impaction, dead worms. Pretty obvious really and I'm suprised that no one involved, vets included could see the danger.
 
whiteflower said:
.....once i found out the company sold you the wormers direct there was no way i would go with them........ i like to get the wormers myself, for the best price without the risk of them being perscribed wormers unnecessarily.
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In fairness to IW, I do have to correct you on a point here.

I don't get my wormers from IW even though I'm signed-up to their program. You don't have to subscribe to them sending you wormers in the post if you don't want to. I just pay the standard annual charge plus the cost of worm counts. I am supplied a worming schedule to follow (which is altered according to the worm count results.)

Personally I'm not happy with their service because I've ended up spending more on worming this year :mad: and with increasingly poor egg count results to boot! :mad::mad:

And to add insult to injury, each IW count has taken MONTHS to get the results through.
 
I used the company once. I received a report which I couldn't fully understand so rang them. Even though Archie has an incredibly low count, as it happened, the girl on the phone seemed unsure about whether to worm and said 'well, best to worm anyway', which completely defeated the object of me getting the count anyway (I knew he would be low and wondered if he needed worming at all). Now in my wisdow I know he didn't need worming so the advice I got was wrong.

I use my vet now for a worm count and they recommend any wormer I may need and I buy my own.
 
Bad opinion of IW from me too I'm afraid. I used them for a worm count a few years ago. Was told the results were low <50epg which was great. However, I was then told to worm with Equimax!!! When I asked why I couldn't just worm for tapeworm with something like Equitape, the girl at IW stuttered a bit and didn't really know what to say. She didn't have a blooming clue! :rolleyes:

I get my horse's worm counts done with a different company now and worm accordingly.
 
Spyda said:
In fairness to IW, I do have to correct you on a point here.

I don't get my wormers from IW even though I'm signed-up to their program. You don't have to subscribe to them sending you wormers in the post if you don't want to. I just pay the standard annual charge plus the cost of worm counts. I am supplied a worming schedule to follow (which is altered according to the worm count results.)
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and this is partly my point, when the field sales lady came i was told that the wormers were just sent and charged and when i asked if i could get them else where she replied they were given posted as part of the programme, no other option was offered - i would have considered it more if i had been told it was an option to buy the wormers myself !

however im glad their employee misinformed me as i now get my results in 24-48 hours using another company - would not be happy waiting for months on end !!!
 
whiteflower said:
and this is partly my point, when the field sales lady came i was told that the wormers were just sent and charged and when i asked if i could get them else where she replied they were given posted as part of the programme, no other option was offered - i would have considered it more if i had been told it was an option to buy the wormers myself !

however im glad their employee misinformed me as i now get my results in 24-48 hours using another company - would not be happy waiting for months on end !!!
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Oh, I definitely think it comes as a bit of a shock to them when someone states that they positively dont want to have wormers supplied from them in the post.:D

Mind you, I guess their primary sales pitch is selling the convenience of not having to worry about sourcing your own wormer nor having to remember when the time is due.
 
I have been very happy with the service and I think it is a good idea for people who are not very knowledgable themselves with regard to worming or who might forget when their horse is due for worming.

I paid £74.50 and this included 4 wormers and 3 poo counts which i think is very reasonable and they adjusted the schedule according to the results. £200 seems like a lot unless you have a big horse that requires more than one tube of wormer and is for a years program. I imagine it includes the £30 assessment fee that they charge for setting up the program for you when you introduce a new horse to the program which is a one off charge I think.

Possibly they have been a victim of their own success as they have rapidly expanded the business and set up a new laboratory, database and employed more staff in a very short amount of time. From a business point of view any of the above could lead to mistakes so introducing them also simultaneously I would be very surprised if there were no teething problems.

If you have been pleased with the service previously i would send them an email maybe to the CEO and explain your disatisfaction and see what happens - they may offer you a good discount on the next program to keep your business. Reputation is everything with this sort of business so I am sure he would take it very seriously.

You do need to worm twice yearly for tapeworm even if your worm count is 0 as that only shows up in a blood test and you also need to worm for encisted (sp?) worms which again do not show up on a blood test.

Our local vets are also suggesting we avoid using pramox and equest on too regular a basis as well to avoid resistance so rotating wormers is important.
 
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I used IW for several yearsfor my livery yard, but gave up because the results were taking too long to come back and they blamed the lab which was Westgate. I didn;t believe them so i decided to send direct to Westgate and have had a fabulous response from them. the results are phoned through within 24 hours and I receive an email response too. i then buy my own wormers based on the results. I seem to be worming far far less and my worm counts have reduced to 'non seen'. I know when I originally went with IW they were very good value for money and the wormers were cheap and it was convenient. But they deteriorated in terms of service and I felt I was just being sent wormers on an almost adhoc basis and horses were being missed off the livery yard lists, or added to my personal horse lists so I was constantly getting incorrect info.
Far easier to organise myself and far far cheaper.
 
i think they have been reading these posts as today i got a letter from them with a voucher for a free worm count which will come off my bill when i renew next year along with a letter explaining explaining they had had some teething problems due to the recent expansion and were rectifying them.
 
At our yard we send off poo samples to one of the well known companies, Abbey Diagnostics or Westgate Lab (depending who has the cheaper deal at the time) & depending on the results we worm or not as required. They are very knowledgable & you can telephone & get advice from them. If you're not sure on what the result actually means they will again advise you. They don't sell wormers so you can get them from whichever company you find the cheapest.

I appreciate that a worm count cannot tell you about tapeworm so you can either have a blood test for that or just worm for them each year.

By doing this we have avoided unnecessary worming & not dosed our horses with unneeded chemicals. Additionally, as we do this as a yard we get discounts on the worm counts, earn points for free counts & can also buy wormers in bulk to again keep costs lower. We are a yard of about 18 horses/ponies. :)
 
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